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How do you deal with "fair weather" players? (3 Viewers)

legonick said:
Also, hosting is a lot of work...are you sure you don't want to just ride on that game? Ask the host what it takes to become a regular and stick to it. Maybe even mention if he wants a night off, you can host for him, after going over everything and having him approve it. Might be best to go with the ol' "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" line here.
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I've hosted before in my old hometown, so I'm pretty familiar with the work... Honestly I enjoy the hosting part as long as people aren't doing things to take advantage of me.

I also specifically want to bring some friends up to speed in the game, and at least a couple of them wouldn't feel comfortable going to an established game while they are still so new to it.

I plan to stick to the other game as well. But honestly, hosting is half the fun for me personally... It can get frustrating at times, but for the most part I love all the little details that go into setting up a good environment for playing poker and socializing.
 
MrCatPants said:
1130 to 1230 for my Thursday crew
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That's not a bad time to wrap up...I'm OK staying up late occasionally (actually a lot...my schedule needs some work, LOL), but a lot of my guys would whine about that I think. What time do you kick off again?


divedivedive said:
I've hosted before in my old hometown, so I'm pretty familiar with the work... Honestly I enjoy the hosting part as long as people aren't doing things to take advantage of me.

I also specifically want to bring some friends up to speed in the game, and at least a couple of them wouldn't feel comfortable going to an established game while they are still so new to it.

I plan to stick to the other game as well. But honestly, hosting is half the fun for me personally... It can get frustrating at times, but for the most part I love all the little details that go into setting up a good environment for playing poker and socializing.
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We have probably pretty similar feelings...I too like the little details and getting things just right. It's the "herding cats" part that has me down occasionally. Ghosting, late cancellations, no-shows...come on, people should know better! :P
 
divedivedive said:
I've got a bit of a different conundrum.

I just moved to a new area that already has a PCF member home game within 5 minutes of my house. I have already been invited to a game (thanks again, btw!). Their game looks well organized and looks to have a good group of regulars.

I've really got my heart set on hosting my own games in the near future starting with some buddies that are just getting into poker. As we've mentioned in this thread over and over, you have to constantly recruit to keep these games alive, but I'm a little concerned about there being two games so close together... I don't want to appear to be recruiting "against" the other game in town that has been here much longer than I have.

How would you handle this to make sure that there is no animosity or competition for players while still recruiting in the same backyard?

(For the record, I plan to become a regular at the other game as well - assuming I continue to be invited. More poker is always better as far as I'm concerned)
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To avoid any animosity, talk to the other host first. Clear it with them before you attempt to recruit their players.

Also, avoid hosting on the same night.

It could also be beneficial to host a different type of game. Ie. Tournament vs cash game. NLH vs PLO. Etc.
 
TheDuke said:
To avoid any animosity, talk to the other host first. Clear it with them before you attempt to recruit their players.

Also, avoid hosting on the same night.

It could also be beneficial to host a different type of game. Ie. Tournament vs cash game. NLH vs PLO. Etc.
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All great advice... I have no intention of recruiting any of their regulars.

I'm pretty committed to NLH tournaments. That's what I've always hosted, and with money being tight for a couple of my buddies, it's mostly about socializing for them.

I'll definitely make sure to avoid the same nights as the other games... Because I plan on attending the other games. Lol
 
divedivedive said:
I've got a bit of a different conundrum.

I just moved to a new area that already has a PCF member home game within 5 minutes of my house. I have already been invited to a game (thanks again, btw!). Their game looks well organized and looks to have a good group of regulars.

I've really got my heart set on hosting my own games in the near future starting with some buddies that are just getting into poker. As we've mentioned in this thread over and over, you have to constantly recruit to keep these games alive, but I'm a little concerned about there being two games so close together... I don't want to appear to be recruiting "against" the other game in town that has been here much longer than I have.

How would you handle this to make sure that there is no animosity or competition for players while still recruiting in the same backyard?

(For the record, I plan to become a regular at the other game as well - assuming I continue to be invited. More poker is always better as far as I'm concerned)
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Lol, cross-pollination, baby! You and yours are welcome at my game, and you can invite my players to yours. If both games are well organized, there's no reason that the two can't be successful.

@divedivedive, our game is actually like 30 min from your house. I just organize it.
 
legonick said:
Everyone should try to host a monthly poker night and feel the pain, then maybe less people would be like that. I know I've changed my outlook on it. If I get invited to something, I respond ASAP and stick with my response. If it's a no and I really wanted to, I make sure to voice that as well, so maybe if I'm lucky I'll get an invite next time and be able to make that one.
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AMEN
 
Perthmike said:
Try living in Australia, the land of the flake. I had a game of 9 lined up and sure enough the day before they started dropping like flies and I and to cancel on the day of when there were just three of us left.
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yep normal for me too. if they had any idea how much of a pain in the ... it is then the might not...

but there are a few who are notorious for late drop outs.


if they rsvp i consider it a no they aren't coming.

its my pet peev
 
CHP TD said:
yep normal for me too. if they had any idea how much of a pain in the ... it is then the might not...

but there are a few who are notorious for late drop outs.


if they rsvp i consider it a no they aren't coming.

its my pet peev
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Keep trying to grow your game...maybe one day you can ditch the ditchers! I wouldn't burn any bridges but they can be so far down the list that they'll only get an invite if it's a totally empty seat anyways. Then it's like, might as well 50/50 that they'll show, would have been empty otherwise! LOL.
 
I'd like to say that hosting will open up a player's eyes about the difficulties in hosting.

I'd like to say it, but I would be lying.

I have had a couple of regulars that began hosting. One is great, lets me know about attendance early, buys in with smaller denominations to make cash-out easier, and rarely cancels. The other is always one of the last to confirm attendance, and frequently cancels. He will even let events go by without even responding to the invite.

Some people just don't get it.

I remember reading once that going to a friends poker game was literally one of the lowest things on a person's social calendar. I tend to disagree, but I have done things to improve the my status on the social calendar.
  1. Invite couples. Your "significant other" isn't going to make other plans if they are also looking forward to the event.
  2. Invite more people than you want, but have a plan if they all show. It sounds crazy, but in my early days I could seat 8 players max. I invited far more. Eventually, more were coming, and I actually had to use my back-up plan, which involved buying folding chairs the day of the event, and covering a dining table with a blanket, covering that with a tablecloth, and duct-taping it to the underside of the table. When that table became the norm, I built a second table. When that was filled on a regular basis I built a third. For one event, I used a topper to run a 4th, and as you would guess, I already have plans for what to do if I need a 5th - which would have to be located outside or in the shed.
  3. Plan the whole year in advance. Our house motto is "We take our fun seriously". So we plan everything around our events. This has been greatly rewarded over the years, as regulars that have moved away have returned on vacations to sit at our game and catch up with old friends. We have had players fly in from California, Arizona and New York, because they know in advance that they can see not one or two friends, but a dozen of them - a worthy addition to any trip.
  4. NEVER cancel. Recently we hosted the Meet in the Suite in Las Vegas, the next night we were back in Tennessee, but the Southwest was suffering from massive delays, and there was a very real chance we wouldn't make it home in time. So we had friends on retainer that we could tell them where to get the key, and unlock the house. We already had the tables set up and ordered pizza to be delivered. A plan to host a game when you aren't even there - that's next-level hosting. We did cancel games during the COVID lockdowns, but kept everyone up to date with revised schedules.
 
Poker Zombie said:
  • NEVER cancel. Recently we hosted the Meet in the Suite in Las Vegas, the next night we were back in Tennessee, but the Southwest was suffering from massive delays, and there was a very real chance we wouldn't make it home in time. So we had friends on retainer that we could tell them where to get the key, and unlock the house. We already had the tables set up and ordered pizza to be delivered. A plan to host a game when you aren't even there - that's next-level hosting. We did cancel games during the COVID lockdowns, but kept everyone up to date with revised schedules.
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This is sage advice and I 100% agree. Can't expect your players to be reliable if you aren't.

That said, no way I'm giving my poker friends the key to my house! :)
 
Poker Zombie said:
  1. Invite couples. Your "significant other" isn't going to make other plans if they are also looking forward to the event.
  2. NEVER cancel. Recently we hosted the Meet in the Suite in Las Vegas, the next night we were back in Tennessee, but the Southwest was suffering from massive delays, and there was a very real chance we wouldn't make it home in time. So we had friends on retainer that we could tell them where to get the key, and unlock the house. We already had the tables set up and ordered pizza to be delivered. A plan to host a game when you aren't even there - that's next-level hosting. We did cancel games during the COVID lockdowns, but kept everyone up to date with revised schedules.
Click to expand...
1. No way I would allow (again) a couple playing in any cash game upwards .05/.10 at the same table. They could manage the same stack / seat in shifts (which also provides for excellent lines like "Woman! The rent!"):)

2. Absolutely so. Even if it has to be a 4-handed tourney (winner takes all) or a single blind cash game.
Again, more than a year ago, just before the pandemic, I suffered a sudden and violent back crisis in the afternoon (I was hosting four hours later). My partner found me on the floor after seven missed calls (I couldn't reach the phone).
I was able to crawl to bed more than an hour after the first injection, but I stilled informed my players about what had happened while on the floor...
 
Coyote said:
. No way I would allow (again) a couple playing in any cash game upwards .05/.10 at the same table. They could manage the same stack / seat in shifts (which also provides for excellent lines like "Woman! The rent!"):)
Click to expand...
We run primarily tournaments, and are vigilant looking for soft play or collusion. We even track on a spreadsheet to determine if players are performing better than their average when at the same table, in case the collusion is undetectable to the eye (if they collude and continuously lose money, my concerns are far less).

I also know a lot of couples that play poker, discuss poker. In doing so, a spouse has a better chance of knowing what their spouse is holding - and that's before getting into subtle, subconscious cues that close-knit people will simply detect in each other. Our system will separate those players as well, perhaps unfairly to those players, so no system will ever be perfect.

But in all these years, we have only had a single "conviction" of soft play (I legitimately think the female didn't know it was wrong until we mentioned it), and a few couples that have been assigned different tables to start, but cannot say that I was ever convinced they were up to any shenanigans.
 
Poker Zombie said:
If I cant trust you with my house I can't trust you in my game.

Afterall, my chips are probably my most valuable possession.
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You are more trusting than me. Definitely some folks who are good in my game and good people in life overall that I wouldn't feel comfortable with being alone in my house.

But I'm also the kind of guy who doesn't like other people driving my car/doesn't like driving other people's cars, etc.

Also I worked in HR for a long time. You get to learn pretty quick that many people you wouldn't expect are capable of crappy things...if the opportunity is there and likelihood of getting caught or punished is low...well, they sometimes happen.
 
Last edited:
Didn't read the full 4 pages. But 3 days! Most of my poker nights are organized the day before or day of. And full in 10 minutes. If I had 3 days notice I could organize 3 full games ;)

Then again I run 6-7 handed games, but still. A seat at my game is coveted, if you bail, it's filled in minutes.

Regardless, 3 days is lots of notice for almost any reason.
 
JScott said:
Didn't read the full 4 pages. But 3 days! Most of my poker nights are organized the day before or day of. And full in 10 minutes. If I had 3 days notice I could organize 3 full games ;)

Then again I run 6-7 handed games, but still. A seat at my game is coveted, if you bail, it's filled in minutes.

Regardless, 3 days is lots of notice for almost any reason.
Click to expand...
Poker Zombie said:
I'd like to say that hosting will open up a player's eyes about the difficulties in hosting.

I'd like to say it, but I would be lying.

I have had a couple of regulars that began hosting. One is great, lets me know about attendance early, buys in with smaller denominations to make cash-out easier, and rarely cancels. The other is always one of the last to confirm attendance, and frequently cancels. He will even let events go by without even responding to the invite.

Some people just don't get it.

I remember reading once that going to a friends poker game was literally one of the lowest things on a person's social calendar. I tend to disagree, but I have done things to improve the my status on the social calendar.
  1. Invite couples. Your "significant other" isn't going to make other plans if they are also looking forward to the event.
  2. Invite more people than you want, but have a plan if they all show. It sounds crazy, but in my early days I could seat 8 players max. I invited far more. Eventually, more were coming, and I actually had to use my back-up plan, which involved buying folding chairs the day of the event, and covering a dining table with a blanket, covering that with a tablecloth, and duct-taping it to the underside of the table. When that table became the norm, I built a second table. When that was filled on a regular basis I built a third. For one event, I used a topper to run a 4th, and as you would guess, I already have plans for what to do if I need a 5th - which would have to be located outside or in the shed.
  3. Plan the whole year in advance. Our house motto is "We take our fun seriously". So we plan everything around our events. This has been greatly rewarded over the years, as regulars that have moved away have returned on vacations to sit at our game and catch up with old friends. We have had players fly in from California, Arizona and New York, because they know in advance that they can see not one or two friends, but a dozen of them - a worthy addition to any trip.
  4. NEVER cancel. Recently we hosted the Meet in the Suite in Las Vegas, the next night we were back in Tennessee, but the Southwest was suffering from massive delays, and there was a very real chance we wouldn't make it home in time. So we had friends on retainer that we could tell them where to get the key, and unlock the house. We already had the tables set up and ordered pizza to be delivered. A plan to host a game when you aren't even there - that's next-level hosting. We did cancel games during the COVID lockdowns, but kept everyone up to date with revised schedules.
Click to expand...
Some questions on this because there are some of these I'm not doing and you have a superior game! And like tournaments as I prefer for the moment too.

"1. Invite couples." - So I actually started out as a gentlemen's poker night and have maintained that so far. I figured it'd be nice for "us guys" to get together and play and I'm concerned about the dynamics SOs would add to the game. For $15 buy-ins, I don't much care about the money and collusion - I doubt any would have the skill to pull it off or the desire. But what about the "bust out" factor? I've seen this happen many times at other games. Wife gets busted, husband still in, 1 car...this could get dicey. I've also played many "no-stakes" games other than poker with women, think board game night, and a woman gets tired and stops trying to play properly. I've seen that at my home game with all guys and poker, the "I'm tired, so I'll shove all-in or call when I shouldn't", but it appears to possibly happen less. Any issues with either of these 2?

"2. Invite more people than you want, but have a plan if they all show." - I'm getting better with this one, but my plan is "first in gets a seat", LOL. I like full tables...what would suck is like 10 or 11 people...stuck running 2 5-man games for a large chunk of the tourney - yuck! My table seats 9, I'd rather have 1 table with 9 than 2 with 10. And I'm struggling to fill a 9 right now, so really don't want to go after that yet.

"3. Plan the whole year in advance." - Accomplishing this one by having a game on the same Friday of every month - currently 2nd to last. Hoping this pattern will help people attend. It seems to not matter much yet. The few regular(s) I have could probably make any Friday, and the flakes are hit or miss, or just do what's convenient to them apparently.

"4. NEVER cancel." - What about with low turn-outs? Say can only get 4 people, or even 3? I've been lucky to not be that low yet...last month I had a last-minute cancel to put me at 7, but a last-minute reversal to put me back to 8. I wouldn't have canceled at 7, but 3 or 4, I don't want to "scare away" the regulars - will they think the next game will be bust and opt out themselves?


JScott said:
Didn't read the full 4 pages. But 3 days! Most of my poker nights are organized the day before or day of. And full in 10 minutes. If I had 3 days notice I could organize 3 full games ;)

Then again I run 6-7 handed games, but still. A seat at my game is coveted, if you bail, it's filled in minutes.

Regardless, 3 days is lots of notice for almost any reason.
Click to expand...
Dude, who do you know? How old are your players?

Now it's like people bitch and moan if stuff isn't on the calendar WELL in advance - inside 1 week, GOOD LUCK. Short notice gets me all kinds of "I have plans...need to give my dog a bath". I think the age range is just more kid-focused. Some people are figuring out that sleep and all that matter more than poker, pffffffft, LOL.
 
I have a buddy who always tries to lock in 10-12 for one table and hardly ever has a waitlist given the 2 or 3 that fall off for all kinds of reasons.
 
legonick said:
4. NEVER cancel." - What about with low turn-outs? Say can only get 4 people, or even 3? I've been lucky to not be that low yet...last month I had a last-minute cancel to put me at 7, but a last-minute reversal to put me back to 8. I wouldn't have canceled at 7, but 3 or 4, I don't want to "scare away" the regulars - will they think the next game will be bust and opt out themselves?
Click to expand...

I would stick to not cancelling. If turnout is low, switch to a cash game so it’s more laid back and relaxed. Could give you an opportunity to try new games also, if you want to try that sort of thing.
 
legonick said:
when the weather if NOT fair enough to go hiking, or he can't find something else he'd rather do, then he'll play. Good to know the world revolves around him and he managed to make better plans for Saturday! So important. /rant
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I know hosting poker is like herding cats, but when someone says things like this, I can kind of get an idea of what's happening.

You have to treat poker like a social activity. The world not revolving around things works both ways.

The solution? Inviting enough people that you have a surplus.
 
legonick said:
1. Invite couples." - So I actually started out as a gentlemen's poker night and have maintained that so far. I figured it'd be nice for "us guys" to get together and play and I'm concerned about the dynamics SOs would add to the game. For $15 buy-ins, I don't much care about the money and collusion - I doubt any would have the skill to pull it off or the desire. But what about the "bust out" factor? I've seen this happen many times at other games. Wife gets busted, husband still in, 1 car...this could get dicey. I've also played many "no-stakes" games other than poker with women, think board game night, and a woman gets tired and stops trying to play properly. I've seen that at my home game with all guys and poker, the "I'm tired, so I'll shove all-in or call when I shouldn't", but it appears to possibly happen less. Any issues with either of these 2?
Click to expand...
It has never been a problem with a spouse outlasting the other, per se.

Once a player left mid game when his wife that wasn't there called and he had to leave as his "Hall Pass" was now expired. That wouldn't have been a problem if she was there.

Once player left when his wife (who has been battling M.S. was ill. She was felted (probably in part due to her condition), and the husband left. We blinded off his chips - and he finished "in the money" anyway. More importantly I doubt they would have shown that night if it was just him. 3 hours of fun with a friend is better than none.

Once a player was felted, and he talked his buddy to "just jamming" so they could go to a club. Of course, these were two young guys that drove together to the game, not someone's spouse. Point is, it can happen, not just with spouses. In fact, the only time we had a I'm bored, just jam, was with a non-spouse. Typically if a spouse busts out, they are interested in their SO winning back their money. They have a vested interest that brings dedication to the game.

legonick said:
"2. Invite more people than you want, but have a plan if they all show." - I'm getting better with this one, but my plan is "first in gets a seat", LOL. I like full tables...what would suck is like 10 or 11 people...stuck running 2 5-man games for a large chunk of the tourney - yuck! My table seats 9, I'd rather have 1 table with 9 than 2 with 10. And I'm struggling to fill a 9 right now, so really don't want to go after that yet.
Click to expand...
My first table was an 8-player octagon. No way to squeeze in #9. I'm not going to lie, those 9 player tournaments sucked - until one player got felted. But you are still getting in a good night of poker once you lose that extra player or two. I also pad my tournaments with hourly breaks, so everyone gets to mingle, even when you are at separate tables.

Since then I have built a 10 player table to make things better, but I'm not going to lie. During the mid part of COVID, we hosted a fully-masked, 4 players per table tournament to socially distance, with the winner of each table going on to the final table. It was far from ideal, but it was something. Dedication says something about how important your game, and your friends, are to you.


legonick said:
"3. Plan the whole year in advance." - Accomplishing this one by having a game on the same Friday of every month - currently 2nd to last. Hoping this pattern will help people attend. It seems to not matter much yet. The few regular(s) I have could probably make any Friday, and the flakes are hit or miss, or just do what's convenient to them apparently.
Click to expand...
I tell my players "every 6 weeks, with one game at the 3-week mark" (for players that have every-other-week child custody). What they actually want is something that I have actually seen stuck to their refrigerator...
2021 Zombie Poker Schedule.jpg


Your friends will recognize the dedication. Not all will respect it, but when they recognize it, they come more frequently.

legonick said:
4. NEVER cancel." - What about with low turn-outs? Say can only get 4 people, or even 3? I've been lucky to not be that low yet...last month I had a last-minute cancel to put me at 7, but a last-minute reversal to put me back to 8. I wouldn't have canceled at 7, but 3 or 4, I don't want to "scare away" the regulars - will they think the next game will be bust and opt out themselves?
Click to expand...
Lowest game I have hosted was 4 players, back when we were struggling. That was with me and Mrs Zombie counting as two, and another couple being the other two.

But how many people over the years have played 4-handed games? Bridge, Mahjong. Poker works too. Sure it's better with more, but we took it as a learning opportunity to teach the other couple by showing down every hand (folded or no) and helping them dramatically improve their game.

The other couple is divorced now. One has moved to Arizona.

They are both coming to the July 31st game.

Dedication. :cool
 
legonick said:
Keep trying to grow your game...maybe one day you can ditch the ditchers! I wouldn't burn any bridges but they can be so far down the list that they'll only get an invite if it's a totally empty seat anyways. Then it's like, might as well 50/50 that they'll show, would have been empty otherwise! LOL.
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yep been doing it since 2012. its a labour of love. and heart break.
 
Well, perfect example of your "fair weather" players tonight. I host a normal game of 21-24 players. Sent out the invite 3 weeks in advance. Had 17 responses within the first few days. Send out a reminder email each week and 2 the week of the event.

Yesterday I start getting the "not sure I can make it" emails and texts. Down 1 player, add 1 on, 2 more players down. Get another text someone made dinner plans that had previously committed. Someone else was is tired since they traveled earlier in the week. Another email saying they just got back from vacation on Monday and need to "catch up".... Are you really catching up on a Friday night from 7:00 - midnight?

So we were around 18, up to 20, all of a sudden down to 15 now. It makes planning a nightmare. Oh well, the game goes on and we'll have a good time with those who do show up.

The joys of hosting.......
 
TKEUofM said:
Well, perfect example of your "fair weather" players tonight. I host a normal game of 21-24 players. Sent out the invite 3 weeks in advance. Had 17 responses within the first few days. Send out a reminder email each week and 2 the week of the event.

Yesterday I start getting the "not sure I can make it" emails and texts. Down 1 player, add 1 on, 2 more players down. Get another text someone made dinner plans that had previously committed. Someone else was is tired since they traveled earlier in the week. Another email saying they just got back from vacation on Monday and need to "catch up".... Are you really catching up on a Friday night from 7:00 - midnight?

So we were around 18, up to 20, all of a sudden down to 15 now. It makes planning a nightmare. Oh well, the game goes on and we'll have a good time with those who do show up.

The joys of hosting.......
Click to expand...

Their loss!
 
TKEUofM said:
Well, perfect example of your "fair weather" players tonight. I host a normal game of 21-24 players. Sent out the invite 3 weeks in advance. Had 17 responses within the first few days. Send out a reminder email each week and 2 the week of the event.

Yesterday I start getting the "not sure I can make it" emails and texts. Down 1 player, add 1 on, 2 more players down. Get another text someone made dinner plans that had previously committed. Someone else was is tired since they traveled earlier in the week. Another email saying they just got back from vacation on Monday and need to "catch up".... Are you really catching up on a Friday night from 7:00 - midnight?

So we were around 18, up to 20, all of a sudden down to 15 now. It makes planning a nightmare. Oh well, the game goes on and we'll have a good time with those who do show up.

The joys of hosting.......
Click to expand...
Hahahaha, yep, sounds about right. :rolleyes:

15 is still a good night, hope you have fun! I ended up at 9 (8 + me), with one guy claiming he'll have to leave by 10, so not sure he'll play. I'll try to convince him blinding off could get him into the money - hey, it could happen! Or maybe he'll just stick it out once he's in, or be busted by then anyways.

I'm sure it'll be a fun night!
 

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