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Cash Game How I Bank at a Home Game in an Increasingly Cashless Society (2 Viewers)

MrCatPants said:
There will eventually at some point be someone unable to pay. Especially as we are about to go into a down economy - people will lose jobs, dip into savings, etc. - would be careful on this heading into 2023.
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A mutual understanding that all debts need to be settled before walking out the door seems to be good enough, but I think I'll need to experience having a player gamble beyond his means to truly see how robust my system is. Using the same drinks at the bar metaphor, how does the bar handle someone who can't pay his tab?
 
ArielVer18 said:
A mutual understanding that all debts need to be settled before walking out the door seems to be good enough, but I think I'll need to experience having a player gamble beyond his means to truly see how robust my system is. Using the same drinks at the bar metaphor, how does the bar handle someone who can't pay his tab?
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Guess the bar is making money and has a margin on everything they sell. One bad actor will hurt, but they will still be well ahead when the nights over. However for a banker in a poker game who makes no money (asuming no rake), there's no margin for error. 100% is with the banker.
 
ArielVer18 said:
A mutual understanding that all debts need to be settled before walking out the door seems to be good enough, but I think I'll need to experience having a player gamble beyond his means to truly see how robust my system is. Using the same drinks at the bar metaphor, how does the bar handle someone who can't pay his tab?
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I remember a huge backlash against casinos that started to offer cashless systems at the tables. The overwhelming (most vocal) view was that it is a predatory procedure.

Sure, amongst "friends" it is less likely to get out of control, because on some level you (as a friend) would want to stop someone from dipping into their savings, when they are 5 buy-ins and six drinks into the night. Still it could be a case for concern that might not be there if you are cash only.
 
Lemonzest said:
This seems naïve. Plenty of bad actors out there and I am not talking about Nicolas Cage.

I have seen so many people get burned with the following logic. "I am a good person and always repay my debts, therefore I assume other people are like me". Don't assume other people are like you.
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An alternative theory is that they are well aware of the risks and still weigh them less than the convenience.

It's tempting to project naïveté onto a younger generation, but the Zoomers I have encountered are very resourceful (in the "work smarter, not harder" sense, which we also misconstrue as laziness). And I'm not just saying this so that they won't make fun of me on TikTok.
 
Cash or electronics funds. Doesn't matter. Money is money.

Only thing that matters is payment upfront.

Gambling on credit just seems like an issue waiting to happen. It's great until the one time it doesn't work.
 
glynn said:
An alternative theory is that they are well aware of the risks and still weigh them less than the convenience.

It's tempting to project naïveté onto a younger generation, but the Zoomers I have encountered are very resourceful (in the "work smarter, not harder" sense, which we also misconstrue as laziness). And I'm not just saying this so that they won't make fun of me on TikTok.
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I think it is naïve to lend money to people one doesn't know well. This is just general life wisdom irrespective of what generation a person is from. I know older folks that do the same thing and lend pretty large sums with no paperwork. It isn't smart and I have seen too many people get burned doing so. Naturally, everyone is free to do as they please.

It is just too bad when really nice people get screwed precisely because they are so nice and don't understand how many bad actors are out there.
 
1667960533847.png


They have the monies
 
My regular game can get pretty big in terms of # of players, some I know well and others I do not. Cash is the only way to procure chips. If you don't have any, find that one player who brought 10 bullets and conduct an electronic transaction to get the money.

This applies to me as well as the host. I carry zero cash on me and have to go to the ATM before every game. However, it is still much easier than giving out markers and then trying to get all big balls on the degenerates who can't afford to pay me back.
 
I always done and host cashless for a few years now but any outstanding amounts need to be paid before you leave so no debt is left unsettled.

I will request new player to transfer me the buyin first if they going to rebuy in more than a couple of time

As much as I enjoy cash, cashless felt much safer for the host if you done it right.
 
Most of my players bring cash, but a few are cashless. If someone buys in cashless I have them zelle/Venmo me, and once I get the confirmation I put that amount of cash in the cash box. If they want to cash out via zelle/Venmo, I'll send them the money and put a post it note in the cash box so I can reconcile later. Haven't had any issues with that, we play mostly lower stakes so I have more than. Enough cash on hand to cover many buy ins.
 
As a host that invites only close personal friends, I always pay out via e-transfer and accept payments either by cash or also e-transfer, though I prefer to latter since I don't want loose cash bills around the house (I have a slim wallet not designed to hold much cash!)

At the end of the game, all players that have chips less than their buy-ins (+re-buys) will pay me their difference. Once I receive all money owed only then will I pay out the winners. I also only pay out their profits relative to their buy-ins and re-buys. This way I never have to manage the actual cash or e-transfer of buy-ins and payouts twice, it's all done at the end of the night.
 
Naww_Mann said:
At the end of the game, all players that have chips less than their buy-ins (+re-buys) will pay me their difference.
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It just occurred to me that this is kind of like adding insult to injury. I get that realistically there’s no difference between paying before and paying after. But if I got my butt kicked all night at poker and then had to pay for the privilege afterward, I wouldn’t like it.
 
cpac54 said:
Anything less than $10 (which would be loose change/coins here) has almost always been donated to "the House" as a thank-you for whoever is hosting that night. Seems to work for everyone in our group.
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Only in Switzerland have such a valuable coin :) (about 5 dollars / euro)

1668013757709.png

... in EU or USA it's a banknote, you swiss call it loose change
:LOL: :laugh:
 
upNdown said:
It just occurred to me that this is kind of like adding insult to injury. I get that realistically there’s no difference between paying before and paying after. But if I got my butt kicked all night at poker and then had to pay for the privilege afterward, I wouldn’t like it.
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Exactly. I tell my players if they don't want me writing down their buy-in and cash out, bring cash.

I do shred the ledger after the game though. I don't want my players to think I'm tracking their results
 
I've done the electronic way for a while but after a long night of poker and drinking it gets hard to do the math. Our group is a close knit group of friends who hang out often outside of poker so getting payment wasn't ever an issue when we square up at the end, but it became cumbersome.

We then went to a hybrid system where everyone brings some cash (we request they go to the ATM if needed before the game). Other plays in the group will also bring extra cash if someone needs to buy in and they Venmo for the cash and buy chips with the cash. At cash out time it so much easier to just pull and pay from one bank vs calculating everyone's wins/loss and who sends how much to who. This overall works out best for us. When I bank I always have a small set of smaller bills as well to help break larger bills. Our games are planned early in the week as we get a head count to see if we have enough people to play so there's ample time for them to get some cash if needed.

Our games are also self dealt/dealer choice so I suppose between banking, tracking buy ins, giving chips, explaining rules (sometimes) and paying attention to the game it just became too much. If I was solely banking and not playing I suppose it wouldn't be an issue, but there's definitely some enjoyment of cashing out and getting a nice pile of cash :)

We're all in our 40s and 30s if that matters. Many of the guys do comment that while they usually have cash, poker is the only place we really use it lol
 
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toothpic said:
but there's definitely some enjoyment of cashing out and getting a nice pile of cash :)
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I cannot agree more here.

Although... running a big tournament and converting first place ($200+) to all singles did not go over nearly as well as I thought it would.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Poker Zombie said:
I cannot agree more here.

Although... running a big tournament and converting first place ($200+) to all singles did not go over nearly as well as I thought it would.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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The trick to that is the bills must be kept warm and pulled out of your underpants to present to the winner.
 
There is absolutely something to be said for the number of chips sitting on the table matching the amount of cash in the bank bag we use to hold the money. As host, I view it my complete responsibility to ensure that there are sufficient funds to cash everyone out, and if/when the chips and cash dont match, I will be digging in my own pocket. Cash is dirty, but it's easy and tangible. I personally don't want to have to keep track of who paid what in order to cash people out via app or otherwise. I usually just want to clean off my hot dog roller and get to bed by the time we shut down.
 
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Since I started hosting my game (made up of mid to late 20-year-olds) a couple of years ago we have been completely cashless. I definitely think the difference is purely generational - maybe 1 or 2 people in my player pool even carry cash. Personally, the only cash I ever carry is $20 for emergency parking or something. The OP wrote a really detailed post, but a cashless game doesn't have to be complicated at all. Granted, I don't do credit. This is how I do it:

1) As players arrive they simply send a payment for however much they want to buy in for. When I get a notification on my phone that the money is received (instantaneous) I count out the chips, just like if they had paid cash.
2) End of the night everyone counts up, I check the total payout against the total buy-ins, if it matches (9 times out of 10) we're golden and I send everyone their winnings.
3) When it doesn't match everyone recounts and, if necessary, I can count people's stacks too. Never not had it come out even.

We exclusively use Venmo. All the funds are aggregated in one place and the nice thing about Venmo is that you can pay from your balance. I'm usually a winning player, so 3 times out of 4 I don't even have to transfer anything to my bank/card. People can do no notes or (more often) they write something completely unrelated or wildly inappropriate for fun. I just tell them not to write poker/gambling/etc. and it's never a problem.

I think cashless also works well for our microstakes so we don't have to mess with coins. Maybe if we had a $1/$1 or $1/$2 game cash would be easier, but it's actually easier for us to be cashless.

Just a lowly millenial's opinion!
 
djfayze said:
We exclusively use Venmo.
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I don't trust Paypal its parent / sister / child or by proxy any other business name they use, and with reason.

They disregarded my security defrauding me out of money. I quit using them about a year after they started doing business, it was only recently I opened an account and I only have them because of the popularity here. Even then I opened a secondary account so I can control how much they can rob me for.

I really enjoy how they tell you they plan to violate your privacy ..

When you are no longer our customer, we continue to share your information as described in this policy.

Social Web Information - including but not limited to your Facebook Connect credentials and email account information. If you authorize Facebook Connect, the plug in allows us access to your email address, Facebook friends list, and public profile (including profile picture).

Finally, we may collect additional information from or about you in other ways not specifically described here.

Cash will never ..

share some of your personal information with the person or company that you are paying or is paying you.Your contact information, date of sign-up, the number of payments you have received and other verification metrics like social graph activity may be provided to users or companies when you transact with, on, or through Venmo.
 
djfayze said:
Since I started hosting my game (made up of mid to late 20-year-olds) a couple of years ago we have been completely cashless. I definitely think the difference is purely generational - maybe 1 or 2 people in my player pool even carry cash. Personally, the only cash I ever carry is $20 for emergency parking or something. The OP wrote a really detailed post, but a cashless game doesn't have to be complicated at all. Granted, I don't do credit. This is how I do it:

1) As players arrive they simply send a payment for however much they want to buy in for. When I get a notification on my phone that the money is received (instantaneous) I count out the chips, just like if they had paid cash.
2) End of the night everyone counts up, I check the total payout against the total buy-ins, if it matches (9 times out of 10) we're golden and I send everyone their winnings.
3) When it doesn't match everyone recounts and, if necessary, I can count people's stacks too. Never not had it come out even.

We exclusively use Venmo. All the funds are aggregated in one place and the nice thing about Venmo is that you can pay from your balance. I'm usually a winning player, so 3 times out of 4 I don't even have to transfer anything to my bank/card. People can do no notes or (more often) they write something completely unrelated or wildly inappropriate for fun. I just tell them not to write poker/gambling/etc. and it's never a problem.

I think cashless also works well for our microstakes so we don't have to mess with coins. Maybe if we had a $1/$1 or $1/$2 game cash would be easier, but it's actually easier for us to be cashless.

Just a lowly millenial's opinion!
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Incredibly similar experience to yours.
My game is almost entirely cashless - and, I don’t think it’s a coincidence, my game is entirely Millennials and Gen Z.

As host, I am the credit banker, and I follow the method of only settling up the net at the end, to reduce total transactions. If you’re up, I Venmo you, if you’re down, you Venmo me. I keep a balance in my Venmo the same way some of y’all would keep a cash box, and we play micro stakes, so there’s never been a liquidity issue.

The other thing I like about electronic payments is it allows for real easy fine tuning of payout percentages for tournaments, and it doesn’t matter if the numbers work out to be weird sums. Or, as you said, it’s convenient for micros.

The only rule we follow on electronic payments is to make the note anything other than poker.
 

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