So I am hosting my first cash game in a very long time with a group of friends I have known for about 5 years now but no one was hosting or playing poker regularly. I am running a smaller table to test and already had people ask about transferring money because they have not used actual cash in a very long time for anything. Granted I am turning 35 shortly and most of the friends in question are my age or younger. I told the few players coming over this weekend that cash was the requirement but I really like the idea of just setting aside my bankroll in cash and covering the money and having the players venmo me the money and then paying everyone out in cash at the end of the night. I can easily pull the money out of my account and add it back to the bankroll to cover future games and it will let the people who want to pay in app transfers do so without it looking like a bunch of shady back and forth paper trail in apps.
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Cash Game How I Bank at a Home Game in an Increasingly Cashless Society (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ArielVer18
- Start date
tablescraps
High Hand
We've found the easiest method is to have a single Apple Pay banker. Players send payments to the banker, then receive their chips. When they cash out, the banker sends payment back. No need to write anything down since it's essentially like trading cash for chips. Never had a problem.
I've found that the players who want to Venmo me for cash are usually the players that I really want to keep in the game. Charging them an extra 5% feels like adding insult to injury.
Preach it. I can count the number of times I've used my ATM card in a casino - once. Story time!
I was much younger and on one of my first trips to LV many, many years ago. Early Friday evening, the only credit card that I'd brought with me (and the one I was using to pay all my non-gambling expenses for the trip) got declined when I tried to charge something small. Faced with the choice of either paying a stupidly high casino ATM fee or setting aside a large chunk of my meager gambling funds to get through the weekend, I used the ATM and paid the fee.
When I finally got hold of my credit union on Monday, it turned out that their overly aggressive fraud prevention department had put a security hold on my card because of my "unusual transactions." I'd already charged several hundred dollars for the hotel and the airfare, and that was fine, but charging a couple of inexpensive meals in LV was apparently suspicious enough to almost ruin my weekend.
nbrun
High Hand
Do you happen to have a printbale spreadsheet/page for marking everything down?
merkong
Full House
I don’t get it. Games should have their players bring cash. It’s not 2050.
Cashing out and pocketing your winnings is as much of poker as earning it.
We will never go cash-free.
FWIW
Cashing out and pocketing your winnings is as much of poker as earning it.
We will never go cash-free.
FWIW
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
We've got Venmo and Zelle and CashApp, its not 2000.
MrCatPants
Full House
We barter for buyins. Last game I took a Instapot, a half bottle of fine whiskey, a partially used grocery store gift card, and 14 homegrown pumpkins. Cash outs weren't as hard as you think. It's not 2714.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
And then I filled a pot with potable water. Boom, worth the entire month's buyin; it must be 2714.
merkong
Full House
It just seems like ledgers and all that seems like work. People bring cash and our banker is awesome. To the penny every time.
Not hating.
Not hating.
The player who wanted to use the apps said it would be more accurate. Don't the apps take a cut of your money? We are also planning on playing really small stakes so I feel like the use of apps would be more prohibitive.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
We're not hating either, just goofing on the 2050 mention. My players rarely keep cash and would laugh if I demanded it, thats okay, different people. For us apps are much less work: each person has it connected to their bank, thats our ledger, everyone pays on there and we get a record of who paid what. Cashing out is easy because it starts with 0 and I can see exactly how much is on the table.
Venmo is fine for microstakes. Easier than me handing out quarters lol. No money taken out, but I dont keep the money there. The caveat is that you can transfer it person to person instantly, but going from Venmo to your bank account is either instant (they take 1 or 2%) or sometime within 24 hours (free). So long as your players dont need the $5.85 for the strip club after the game you're fine. I keep a cash bankroll in case I need to pass it out.
merkong
Full House
I’m 56 and feel pretty hip. Cash will always be king. I know our 20 year old son and his buddies rarely touch cash (aside from when I slip the kid a 50 to hit the links) and they even did so the Venmo deal when they parked themselves at one of our tables over the thanksgiving break.
I may have to explore the “less-cash” (versus cash-less; see what I did there?) society.
I mean I just recently got my own Venmo (coinciding with my joining PCF - how convenient lol).
Great conversation and I suddenly seem more interested in these cashless scenarios.
All-in (“Hold on… Click, click click click…)
I may have to explore the “less-cash” (versus cash-less; see what I did there?) society.
I mean I just recently got my own Venmo (coinciding with my joining PCF - how convenient lol).
Great conversation and I suddenly seem more interested in these cashless scenarios.
All-in (“Hold on… Click, click click click…)
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Haha, I love your humor man. I understand, its weird at first. Not convincing anyone of anything just presenting the option. I do both, which is the least organized or secure way but microstakes with beginners has me less worried, just want to make it convenient.I’m 56 and feel pretty hip. Cash will always be king. I know our 20 year old son and his buddies rarely touch cash (aside from when I slip the kid a 50 to hit the links) and they even did so the Venmo deal when they parked themselves at one of our tables over the thanksgiving break.
I may have to explore the “less-cash” (versus cash-less; see what I did there?) society.
I mean I just recently got my own Venmo (coinciding with my joining PCF - how convenient lol).
Great conversation and I suddenly seem more interested in these cashless scenarios.
All-in (“Hold on… Click, click click click…)
slisk250
Straight Flush
I’d never do this in a million years. If someone shows up without cash and nobody will stake them….too bad. Noobs want to play? Bring cash. Need to hide funds from wife? Handle your own problems.
FYI - Great Divide is cash only.
FYI - Great Divide is cash only.
FTFY
For the record, I'm only slightly younger then you. I couldn't help not acting my age and razzing you though.
I still pay my youngest her allowance in cash, but the older two only get money from me via Venmo or bank transfer. I don't think I've given either of them physical cash more than once or twice in the past 2-3 years.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
This type of mindset cracks me up. Why such strong feelings against anything not cash? Gambler/bankroll mindset? Just stuck in the way its always been done? Mistrust of apps? bad eyesight?
Yeah very similar here. Cash is gas money for them.
OP
OP
ArielVer18
Flush
I use an A6 notepad because it fits perfectly on my 6" wide rail. No template because it's so easy to make: player's name on the left and their buy-in(s) on the right. I don't have an example to show because I rip out the used pages and throw it out after the game so my players don't think I'm tracking their results, but here's a made-up example:
In my last few games, I've tried using an Excel spreadsheet for the end game settlement. I'll have the spreadsheet open on my laptop and mirror the screen to a nearby TV for all to see. This seems to be slightly faster than doing arithmetic on a calculator. After all the money transfers are squared, I close Excel and make a show of clicking "Don't Save."
I'm still a little old school by assuming most people don't want their gambling activities tracked, so I haven't simplify everything by trying @edwardstarcraft's app yet.
Opinions and mindsets can change. I once had strong cash-only opinions too, until I had an impromptu poker game after the sports event we were watching on TV ended, but no one except for me and one other player carried cash. What was I supposed to do, tell everyone to go home because we can't have a poker game if no one had cash?
edwardstarcraft
High Hand
I think for a home game there are several downsides to cash that aren't the case at a casino:
- Getting more cash -- do you have an ATM at home? No? Well then how are people supposed to get more cash? Even at a casino a lot of people only bring one buy-in, not expecting to lose it but will go to an ATM for more cash. If someone is out of cash, there will be a new player to sit down so it's not a big deal if someone runs into an ATM limit, but at a home game a player without cash is out of the game and now you're forced to continue short-handed.
- Making change -- again, at a casino you'll have a cashier's cage with enough change for everyone, but at a home there's a non-zero chance you run out of change to pay out everyone evenly. If you keep the bank stocked up, that's extra work for the organizer
- Robberies -- do you have full-time security at home? Games with a lot of cash on hand have to face the risk of getting robbed if people know there's a game going on. This is a non-zero risk if you're dealing with any substantial amount of money. Also if people don't have a safe place to store their cash during the workday, it makes it less likely they will join your game after on a weeknight after work (and harder to recruit a player for an open seat seat day-of).
The only scenarios I see where they take a cut is if you do an instant transfer, in which case there's a small percent. But otherwise, the only way Venmo has made money from me specifically, is the time value of having my money make interest for them. I've never found myself in a situation where I needed the cash out of my balance faster than 3 days, so I've never had to pay a cut.
I play micros, and I actually find the app is more useful there, because I do not have to bust out change. If our game was 1/2 and I only dealt with whole dollar bills or larger, it wouldn't be so bad. But needing to have nickels, dimes, and quarters in the bank as well seems far more inconvenient than tapping in a couple of numbers when someone cashes out with me.
This is going to be my first hosted game in a very long time and we are playing micro stakes as well so maybe I will change my tune after but I have lots of change to cash people out.
merkong
Full House
Cash is king but you bring up valid points. I keep $500 in the house small bills and my players donate the “change” (.50 etc) to the house. Also, they all bring small bills.
It only happens rarely but I’ll stake my players if need be since they’re all 10-20 and have “validated” status. They’re regulars. Also, they bring 3-5 buyins ($60-100) with them and we all know if you need to go to the cash machine maybe it hasn’t been your night.
Our doors are locked and it’s not a published game. Additionally, and I hate to mention it but it is what it is, I have a conceal permit and under the pinball machine is where I keep one of my handguns, my “poker bodyguard”. But that’s just silly info. We’re not getting robbed.
We have the “ATM” issue and making change problems accounted for.
I’ll always like cash.
It only happens rarely but I’ll stake my players if need be since they’re all 10-20 and have “validated” status. They’re regulars. Also, they bring 3-5 buyins ($60-100) with them and we all know if you need to go to the cash machine maybe it hasn’t been your night.
Our doors are locked and it’s not a published game. Additionally, and I hate to mention it but it is what it is, I have a conceal permit and under the pinball machine is where I keep one of my handguns, my “poker bodyguard”. But that’s just silly info. We’re not getting robbed.
We have the “ATM” issue and making change problems accounted for.
I’ll always like cash.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Totally understand that. Ive got one of those, "I feel secure in this room" too haha.
bergs
Royal Flush
People got charts and tables and graphs like they’re at work in the C-suite. I host and play poker to get away from work, not closer to it.
Straight cash homie. You give me cash I count it I give you chips you count them. Glgl.
You didn’t bring enough money? Maybe you should shut it down. You want to keep playing? Venmo or PP someone with money at the game other than me, bring me cash. I count it. I give you chips. You count them. We play. We drink. We’re merry.
If the bank is off, it’s on me. My drunk ass didn’t count the money right, or my drunk ass didn’t count the chips right. I make it right. Next time 3 less beers.
Straight cash homie. You give me cash I count it I give you chips you count them. Glgl.
You didn’t bring enough money? Maybe you should shut it down. You want to keep playing? Venmo or PP someone with money at the game other than me, bring me cash. I count it. I give you chips. You count them. We play. We drink. We’re merry.
If the bank is off, it’s on me. My drunk ass didn’t count the money right, or my drunk ass didn’t count the chips right. I make it right. Next time 3 less beers.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Again, this cracks me up! The person locking down the bank doesnt take anything other than cash, even though digital/app form comes with an easy receipt. Easy bank, but no paper changing hands so its strange n scary?
bergs
Royal Flush
You’ve got a record of payments for gambling, you’ve got people that are uncomfortable with you knowing exactly how much they’re up and down and a history, there are potential tax implications, the account can be frozen for suspicious activity, it can be hacked, etc.
There are also advantages to people bringing exactly what they’re comfortable losing. There is a reason that cruise ships give you a card for all your onboard spend - because you spend more when you abstract the cash.
I work in technology. I love technology. But it’s not the answer for everything all the time. If executed consistently and properly the cash approach is foolproof.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Stop, this is just silly; youre playing with people who dont want you to know how much theyre up and down when theyre playing and youre the bank? Pen and paper or venmo, itll be somewhere, silly argument.
Yes, the reason for cruise ships giving you an onboard card is to spend more, duh. Youre comparing me with a cruise ship because im not requiring cash for my $10 buyin? Cmon now. Silly.
Cash comes with its own drawbacks. Did you give me a 20 or a 100? Were both drinking and misshandle the cash? Nope venmo knows how much in and out.
Saying you work in technology and then saying cash is foolproof when executed properly and consistently is very silly; every approach is foolproof when done properly and consistently. Thats the point of being proper and consistent.
Edit: it was real late after 183 bourbons. Dont mean to come off as aggressive, I value your opinion and it differs from mine, thats fine and I totally understand just using cash.
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Marius L
4 of a Kind
I have a feeling this is societal differences, and thus making this discussion somewhat useless. But from my point of view, living in Norway, we don't use cash much ever. Most payments are cardbased and we have a free venmo-ish app that everyone can use for transfering money straight from their to another's bank account without fees.
For me, getting change and ending up with a bunch of small coins or small bills is just way too annoying for me to ever use cash in a small stakes game.
First of all for the banker it's a huge burden to have to go get a bunch of coins and small bills up front to make sure you can cash everyone out.
Secondly it's a burden for the winners to have to bring a bunch of random useless coins back home. Like, this is my wallet. It has no small pocket for coins, because 99% of the time I don't have any and don't want any. Admittedly I do have one bill in there (the biggest denom available equivalent to $50), just in case there's ever an issue with all my cards and mobile pay options at the same time. (Have never happened).
Anyways, most important thing is that the players know ahead of time what's to expected.
merkong
Full House
This is why I love cash. Yes I was the big cash out tonight. $60 in and $346 out. Bank was spot on…
A good host / banker never has this problem.
Anyone who has ever worked a traditional cash register knows routines for avoiding claims like “I gave you $100 not $20.” This becomes second nature and takes very little time.
Cash that is handed to me never goes into the box until all the chips have been counted twice by me and verified by the player.
Bills presented are set aside the chips I’m counting, preferably with a card protector or other paperweight holding the money down, in full view of the purchaser and other players.
If more than one bill is presented, the money gets counted at least twice, in view of the player and others, preferably at both the start and end of the handoff.
It doesn’t get commingled with any funds until the transaction is fully checked and complete.
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