How would you have played this 2/5 NLHE hand? (1 Viewer)

[Phobos223]

So I was playing 2/5 NLHE ($500 buy in) up in the Winstar poker room in Oklahoma all weekend and overall did great. There were a few mistakes here and there (learn something every trip!), but overall I feel I played pretty good. There was however 1 hand that continues to haunt me so I want to throw it out here for you pros to dump some knowledge on me. I already have a pretty good idea of what I should have done differently, but just curious what you guys have to say. Also, I have been reading lots of strategy threads on here and really enjoy them, so I wanted to contribute something to the conversation!

So here we go... I have been sitting at this table for a couple hours now, doing pretty good. Table is a $500 buy in and am sitting at about ~$600 in the CO. The villain in this hand is a giant Beats headphones, hoodie up LAG in MP with around ~$500 in his stack as well. This guy has won a few good pots so far in the session, but lost a ~$200 pot to me in like the 3rd hand after the table opened. He likes to show his cards for some reason so I have seen him playing a fairly wide range, but nothing really that I wouldn't play

The blinds are posted and UTG straddles to $10, and I look down at (y) :thumbsup:

Villain calls from MP and the action folds around to me, I call, BTN folds, as does both the blinds. UTG appears to have a junk hand, complains about how he always gets junk when straddling, and checks.

There is now ~$37 in the pot as the flop come out

Obviously I am stoked about this, and am curious to see how it plays out. UTG checks to Villain who immediately fires off a pot sized $35 bet. Obviously I am immediate putting him on AK, AJ, AQ, JJ+... something spicy for sure.... but since I'm still way ahead I am liking what I see and smooth call the $35 and UTG quickly folds his junk.

There is now ~$100 (raked) in the pot as the turn comes

Villain immediately fires out a $60 bet. Now, I'm figuring I'm still ahead at this point, and I think about re-raising, but it feels like I can extract a bit more value out of this and crush this guy on the river so I ultimately elect to simply call the $60...

There is now ~$220 in the pot as the river comes

Now I am kicking myself... Villain smiles and quickly fires off an even half-pot $110 bet... Now I'm sitting there thinking surely this guy just hit a boat and and is just trying to squeeze a few more chips out of me.... "I'll show you what I have if you fold!" he says, sitting there smiling... I ponder my position for a min or so, at first thinking for sure I have to call this... but then thinking back on how he bet and all of the possible hands easily in his range that beat me here... even the I saw him play earlier beats me now.... I ultimately fold.... grudgingly throwing my cards in the muck...

Villain smiles and flips up "Told myself today I had to make more moves!" he says, scooping up his pot... "You had Aces, didn't you?" he asks.... to which I said.. "Yup..."

Argh!! Immediately I start to think of so many ways I could have played that better.... I feel I should have re-raised after the flop, or at minimum for sure on the turn... there's no way this guy calls unless he's got a set, eh?? Ugh... after typing this all out it really sounds like such an newbie mistake...

Anyway, consolation prize came about 30 min later when this same villain tried that shit again against another player with the nuts and got smoked for his entire bankroll and sent home

I ended up making a few hundred on the day so ultimately that hand didn't matter, but I was pissed about how I played it the rest of the trip!!

How do you guys play this out?

 

[redwine]

Fold river. Not even close imo.

You will have plenty of boats you can snap off this donk with.

 

[redwine]

I don't mind calling flop. And once you do, calling turn seems optimal. Cant flop a straight and then be raising once the board pairs.

Well played i think.

Only decision point I might disagree with is raise preflop.

 

[krafticus]

I think based on the range you put him on, you should have raised on the turn.

 

[Phobos223]

Fold river. Not even close imo.

You will have plenty of boats you can snap off this donk with.

For sure I had to fold on the river, but just curious on thoughts leading up to....

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

"I'll show you what I have if you fold!"

That's usually a sign of weakness. I suppose he could be using a reverse tell, but if he's showing all his hands I would think that he's just not that high level of a poker thinker. I think you can eliminate most jacks out of his range, it makes no sense for him to fire a second barrel with that holding on the turn. It's either a queen or air if he is triple barreling here (or pocket aces I suppose), so that combined with his verbal declarations makes this a sigh call I think.

 

[redwine]

Jeez

On thinking it over though. I find it hard for villain to have a hand that will limp preflop, and bet for value 3 times.

Given all the tells (the smile, the ill show bs) maybe I could call.

Still think everything before river is not terrible.

 

[tentoesdown]

"I'll show you what I have if you fold!"

That's usually a sign of weakness. I suppose he could be using a reverse tell, but if he's showing all his hands I would think that he's just not that high level of a poker thinker. I think you can eliminate most jacks out of his range, it makes no sense for him to fire a second barrel with that holding on the turn. It's either a queen or air if he is triple barreling here (or pocket aces I suppose), so that combined with his verbal declarations makes this a sigh call I think.

+1

It is a HUGE sign of weakness!! When someone has a very strong hand they want to draw as little attention to them as possible, he'd probably be completely quiet if he had a boat.

Once he says that I snap call: as a bonus you also beat some of his potential value that he is semi-blocker betting river with (AT, A9, A8, etc)

 

[Phobos223]

Thanks for the feedback guys! So would a re-raise on the turn be a bad play here? If he jams then I fold? Or is it just too much $$ at this point?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I think you played it fine, actually, until the fold on the river. You got him to keep betting with 8 high, which is good. You just have to take some time to evaluate what hands he's triple barreling here, and sometimes you have to make barfy hero calls.

 

[DrStrange]

Preflop - the call is marginal. I think I'd rather raise than call. If the straddler is hyper aggressive then maybe a limp or even a fold. If MP is rocky enough but good enough, then a limp might be better.

Flop - I am ok with the slow play, but Hero needs to figure that every turn card bigger than a nine is potential trouble or an action killer. I think raise is a little better than flat but I am open to a more rigorous argument about the merits of a slow play. At the moment, Hero wants to play for stacks and that will require four bets. But it may be the LAG will spew more chips by a check call line rather than taking aggressive action.

Turn - same song, second verse. This is highly villain dependent - passive lines can be quite profitable vs LAG. The paired board both starts to scare hero and also kill his action so it still looks good to let the LAG hang himself.

River - Here Hero makes a mistake. Villain is betting half pot. Hero needs to win only one time in four to break even on the call. This is no place for a raise - Hero needs to call.

Hero adopted a plan for the hand - passively take villain's chips with slow play. Yes, hero would like to stick in a raise somewhere at the end, but the double paired board spoiled that part of the plan.

Finally, please reveal the hand in stages rather than lay it all out at once. In this case we know that villain is almost certain to fold as soon as Hero raises, making the ultra passive line the most profitable one. There would be a lot more discussion about how to handle the flop decision and perhaps the turn decision if we didn't already know how the story ends.

Thanks for posting -=- DrStrange

 

[Phobos223]

Thanks again for the feedback, much appreciated! Also will go in stages next time, @DrStrange

 

[onerand]

Raise the flop. There are a lot of worse hands that will call. River is a tough call without reads, as you only beat air.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I think you need to call that river.

Taking the passive route isn't just about letting the opponent draw until they have something to call with... it's also about inducing their bluffs. After inducing a bluff, you have to make the call most of the time, even if it's sometimes a crying call.

Given that we know the villain had nada, the passive play on the flop is correct... but I'll note that you said:

"Obviously I am immediate putting him on AK, AJ, AQ, JJ+... something spicy for sure...."

If your read really was good enough to know that he was on a made hand like that, then your call would have been wrong. If villain has a calling hand, you should be betting and raising your straight for value! In retrospect, your "for sure" was not actually for sure.... And then, on the river, you became so sure that you threw away a winner.

Seems to me you're over-valuing your reads. For most of us (those without superpowers), our reads should shade our decisions, not dictate them.

 

[Phobos223]

For most of us (those without superpowers), our reads should shade our decisions, not dictate them.

Well said, Sir!

 

[Ellasdaddy]

"I'll show you what I have if you fold!"

That's usually a sign of weakness. I suppose he could be using a reverse tell, but if he's showing all his hands I would think that he's just not that high level of a poker thinker. I think you can eliminate most jacks out of his range, it makes no sense for him to fire a second barrel with that holding on the turn. It's either a queen or air if he is triple barreling here (or pocket aces I suppose), so that combined with his verbal declarations makes this a sigh call I think.

Absolutely this. Depending on familiarity with villain, it's a snap call. I'm raising this pre as well.

 

[courage]

Interesting hand and imo images are important here. Raise flop unless villain perceives you as too TAG. As played is also just fine too, "walking the dog" on flop and turn allows you to keep draws mixed in with passive play on other hands. River is a pretty tough spot. Hand-reading should make it more likely to be value bets than bluffs (esp Q), but his speech is weak. I don't think you should beat yourself up over this one. Donks gonna donk.