Hustler Casino Live (3 Viewers)

[Frogzilla]

I tried my “losing on purpose” theory out on a few live tables today, convinced absolutely nobody. Damn it maybe I’m wrong

 

[RainmanTrail]

She did not misread her hand. This is quite clear from the video and her statements afterward.

I think she almost certainly had intel on Garrett's hand when she made that call. If we knew that the outcome would be determined, I'd accept a wager on that bet at almost any realistic price. I've played millions of hands of poker. I've never in my life seen a call that "bad". This isn't just an outlier. This is the most extreme outlier of a sample of millions of hands. How she might have cheated (or if her intel technically even qualifies as "cheating") is anyone's guess. She could have some sort of device that vibrates to tell her when she's good, in which case, she'd have a partner. The dealer could have a flaw in their pitch that allows her to see some of the cards (note, that Garrett's seat, the 9 seat, is the most susceptible to this if the dealer does in fact do this). She could have perfect information like Postle did, though I highly doubt this is the case here. But she could easily have partial information. Her backer/lover Rip is sitting pretty close to Garrett, it's very plausible that he could have somehow gotten a peep at his cards and signaled to her in some way (this is very easy to do). There are all sorts of ways she could have gotten information about the strength of Garrett's hand here. Many of which are not far-fetched, and some of which are actually fairly common. Garrett is a fairly aware player though, and he knows how to protect his hands, so some of those may be less likely, but certainly not out of the question.

But the play itself is more than suspect. This just isn't a spot where anyone who isn't brand new to poker calls off their stack. Not even the worst of the worst players. I've read people discussing the merits of "calling someone down with Jack high" and asking whether or not they've ever done it or seen it, etc. But that completely fails to grasp the gravity of this particular scenario. Not all Jack high hands are the same. Doug Polk said it best when he said, "what if Garrett had 6c7c instead of 7c8c here and she called down with 8 high instead of Jack high? Would you still think it's just a 'bad call' and not likely to be cheating?" This is effectively the exact same scenario as that, just one pip higher. Jack high on the TT9 board is effectively the same call as calling with an 8 high here, hoping to "catch a bluff". She is clearly experienced enough in poker to understand what she's calling with, but just not quite experienced enough to realize that this call exposes her as having information that she's not supposed to have. I think she almost certainly had information about his hand. Whether it amounts to "cheating" or not, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see if more intel comes out. But nobody who actually plays poker makes that call without knowledge of the other player's cards. Ever. This is what cheating looks like.

If you think this is all a nothing burger and that it's just a random example of some poorly played hand, and that all this speculation is unwarranted, then you haven't played enough poker to understand what actually happened in this hand.

 

[JP1984]

She did not misread her hand. This is quite clear from the video and her statements afterward.

I think she almost certainly had intel on Garrett's hand when she made that call. If we knew that the outcome would be determined, I'd accept a wager on that bet at almost any realistic price. I've played millions of hands of poker. I've never in my life seen a call that "bad". This isn't just an outlier. This is the most extreme outlier of a sample of millions of hands. How she might have cheated (or if her intel technically even qualifies as "cheating") is anyone's guess. She could have some sort of device that vibrates to tell her when she's good, in which case, she'd have a partner. The dealer could have a flaw in their pitch that allows her to see some of the cards (note, that Garrett's seat, the 9 seat, is the most susceptible to this if the dealer does in fact do this). She could have perfect information like Postle did, though I highly doubt this is the case here. But she could easily have partial information. Her backer/lover Rip is sitting pretty close to Garrett, it's very plausible that he could have somehow gotten a peep at his cards and signaled to her in some way (this is very easy to do). There are all sorts of ways she could have gotten information about the strength of Garrett's hand here. Many of which are not far-fetched, and some of which are actually fairly common. Garrett is a fairly aware player though, and he knows how to protect his hands, so some of those may be less likely, but certainly not out of the question.

But the play itself is more than suspect. This just isn't a spot where anyone who isn't brand new to poker calls off their stack. Not even the worst of the worst players. I've read people discussing the merits of "calling someone down with Jack high" and asking whether or not they've ever done it or seen it, etc. But that completely fails to grasp the gravity of this particular scenario. Not all Jack high hands are the same. Doug Polk said it best when he said, "what if Garrett had 6c7c instead of 7c8c here and she called down with 8 high instead of Jack high? Would you still think it's just a 'bad call' and not likely to be cheating?" This is effectively the exact same scenario as that, just one pip higher. Jack high on the TT9 board is effectively the same call as calling with an 8 high here, hoping to "catch a bluff". She is clearly experienced enough in poker to understand what she's calling with, but just not quite experienced enough to realize that this call exposes her as having information that she's not supposed to have. I think she almost certainly had information about his hand. Whether it amounts to "cheating" or not, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see if more intel comes out. But nobody who actually plays poker makes that call without knowledge of the other player's cards. Ever. This is what cheating looks like.

If you think this is all a nothing burger and that it's just a random example of some poorly played hand, and that all this speculation is unwarranted, then you haven't played enough poker to understand what actually happened in this hand.

You not buying that she’s a massive fish? Thinks he’s bullying her and just brain farts a call. When she says, “have you got A high?” It took me back to countless times where people make awful calls thinking they are behind, but they had a cognitive breakdown and called when they shouldn’t.

Granted this is an extreme example, but I can definitely see how it’s possible.

 

[RainmanTrail]

You not buying that she’s a massive fish? Thinks he’s bullying her and just brain farts a call. When she says, “have you got A high?” It took me back to countless times where people make awful calls thinking they are behind, but they had a cognitive breakdown and called when they shouldn’t.

Granted this is an extreme example, but I can definitely see how it’s possible.

She might be a massive fish, but massive fish don't even make this call. EVER. She didn't just brain far either. She took her time. Stared back at her cards too. She thought deeply about this decision. She knew exactly what she had. She did not misread her hand here.

 

[JP1984]

I can definitely see the cheating angle, don't get me wrong. It'll be interesting to see what the investigation uncovers, some of the theories have been insane.

 

[MatB]

She might be a massive fish, but massive fish don't even make this call. EVER. She didn't just brain far either. She took her time. Stared back at her cards too. She thought deeply about this decision. She knew exactly what she had. She did not misread her hand here.

Unless she thought she had J3

Then it makes sense. It all makes sense

Her skill / experience level
The panicking word salad
The flip flopping on reasons why she called


Saying anything with certainty here is where we all are making mistakes
You can’t say she didn’t misread her hand with certainty.
And for sure if you’ve played a lot of hands then you should know anything is possible and a call like this not outside that realm. I’ve made worse calls.

 

[Taghkanic]

Garrett is an extremely experienced and adept player, with extremely deep pockets. The money cannot really matter to him. It’s the indignation at feeling cheated that drives his behavior here, IMHO.

As other pros have said, many have had experiences being cheated especially in private games. They know what type of things to look for. And don’t make accusations lightly.

I tend to trust Garrett’s intuition here. It’s still possible that her behavior was just incompetent/spazzy, and happened to line up perfectly with all the signs one would expect from a cheater.

But I don’t blame Garrett for making the accusation. Her play and her comments were too bizarre to not raise doubts.

As far as how the cheating might have occurred... It could involve technology, but doesn't have to. It could involve signals from another player; we already know her partner and backer is at the table. Or peeks due to dealer error or shoulder surfing, or some combo of both.

(Anyway, unfortunately l doubt that anything definitive will come out, so this will be an endless source of debate until people move on to some other poker controversy.)

 

[warma]

So…… how?

How does she cheat?

Clearly there’s a vibrating butt plug giving her signals, but, what signal is being intercepted, and how then is the signal intercepted, translated, and relayed?

I see a lot of “she’s def cheating because who does that?” So let’s talk about how she does it.

 

[MatB]

Yeah. A Lot of self proclaimed experts in poker who can’t show or prove ANY cheating but somehow their expert ‘observation’ trumps everything. Including the fact she just called with a shit hand and he had a worse hand and lost.

Is it possible cheating happened ?

Sure.

But based on everything so far it’s extremely unlikely, and then you have to ask what evidence do the ‘she cheated’ camp have ?

Their evidence so far:

1). They don’t like the fact she called with J4 and won. Even though she may have misread her hand and calling thinking she had a 3 would have been hailed as a great hero call if she actually had a 3.

2). That’s it. No more evidence, just grasping at straws and your run of the mill Mysogony

 

[Anthony Martino]

So…… how?

How does she cheat?

Clearly there’s a vibrating butt plug giving her signals, but, what signal is being intercepted, and how then is the signal intercepted, translated, and relayed?

I see a lot of “she’s def cheating because who does that?” So let’s talk about how she does it.

When I was being cheated at PLO in Tampa I felt something was off, but I didn't know how they were cheating. Fortunately the poker room was able to figure it out after I spoke up.

I don't know how Robbi is cheating, but I lean very heavily towards she was cheating somehow in this situation. Hopefully their investigation is able to uncover just how it was done

1). They don’t like the fact she called with J4 and won. Even though she may have misread her hand and calling thinking she had a 3 would have been hailed as a great hero call if she actually had a 3.

2). That’s it. No more evidence, just grasping at straws and your run of the mill Mysogony

The majority of people online (60-65%) seem to think she either misread her hand or is just really dumb, while the rest (35-40%) seem to believe she cheated somehow.

I don't discount that those saying she didn't cheat are right. But given her fantastical stories, constantly shifting narrative that looks like she's trying to find something that sticks/makes sense and the absolute absurdity of the play, I still lean towards something is way off and it's more than just misreading her hand or playing bad.

I think she's a bad cheater. I believe she was waiting for some sort of signal in that spot to call or fold and after she got that signal she went with it, not aware how ridiculous it would look.

I can't remember how many times I've played poker against people who misread their hands (or I misread my own hand) and after the hand is turned up the person who misread their hand immediately realizes what their actual hand is and expresses some sort of shock/surprise and voices it.

Robbi did not do this. She had no real raw emotion or surprise to her supposed gaff of a hand misread. In addition she elicited no level of excitement at just correctly calling with J-high against the best player on that stream and winning a pot worth over a quarter of a million dollars.

Her actions, her emotions, her explanations, none of it adds up. There's too much smoke and I'm convinced there's gotta be some fire. The concern now is that I'm not sure they can prove it after the fact. I certainly hope they can, but it's going to be awhile before the investigation is completed.

And fuck off with that misogyny bullshit, what a crock of shit that is. She IMMEDIATELY launched into that as a deflection attempt when Shaun Deeb on Joeys show asked her what her involvement with Rip was, saying that Shaun was "attacking" her and it was because she was a woman.

This has zero to do with her being female, and everything to do with the absurdity of the call. Gman was smirking at being caught with 8-high and fully ready to lose to her call-down with a hand that actually made sense to catch his semi-bluff, until he actually SAW her hand and realized her call down made zero sense if she was actually bluff catching.

 

[MatB]

Spoiler

i disagree

 

[Wizard19]

She’s a dumb and greedy thief!

All she knew that she was ahead, and the pot was huge. Then she made the call. Didn’t think of how to explain this to millions of audiences. She fucked up.

If I were GMan, I would also take the money back. Good luck with the fucking investigation, they will get shit. And then what? People played with Postle got nothing back. We talking about $130 K here. Fuck Internet opinions!!!

That’s my opinion.

 

[Frogzilla]

The majority of people online (60-65%) seem to think she either misread her hand or is just really dumb, while the rest (35-40%) seem to believe she cheated somehow.
.

don’t forget 1% like me who think she hates rip and tried to lose on purpose

addition she elicited no level of excitement at just correctly calling with J-high against the best player on that stream and winning a pot worth over a quarter of a million dollars.

maybe she wasn’t happy or excited about that result, just saying…

 

[TheDuke]

I wouldn't put too much weight into her reactions without alot of other footage of her reactions with other hands while on camera.

Panopticon - people behave differently when they're being watched or they think they're being watched. In this case, a stream being viewed by thousands of people. So comparing your anecdotal evidence of home games or card rooms to a popular streamed game is not the same.

Being a woman, there was likely some heightened self consciousness about the cameras. I mean, just take a look at this thread and you have people making derogatory comments about her appearance.

 

[ekricket]

If you think this is all a nothing burger and that it's just a random example of some poorly played hand, and that all this speculation is unwarranted, then you haven't played enough poker to understand what actually happened in this hand.

If you believe all that tripe then you haven’t been around people long enough to be socially developed much less understand anything they do or say.

You have a lot of pretty chips I can’t buy, therefore you must have stolen them. That’s the only explanation I can think of.

 

[AH77]

She is clearly experienced enough in poker to understand what she's calling with, but just not quite experienced enough to realize that this call exposes her as having information that she's not supposed to have.

This about sums up my thoughts on it. She just started saying some random words and phrases like “blockers,” “bluff catcher,” and “I thought you had ace high” which Garrett points out makes no sense considering she called with Jack high.

I don’t even think she was paying attention to anything in the actual hand and was just waiting for some kind of signal to tell her if she was good or not, nothing else.

She probably knows enough to know that it would be seen as a hero call but not enough to know how absurd it is on that particular board texture.

 

[ekricket]

If you believe it was cheating - dont you think it would have been better to wait for a hand where you knew there would be action before cheating? Like if you knew it was aces full being beat by quads - the moneys going in there for sure.

Where was the money going in on this hand? Why play J4 there - even if you knew it would win - because what dumbass can you count on to shove on a missed draw?
You almost have to know that’s what he’s going to do - and that suggests maybe he was in on it too. His actions afterwards certainly suggest he’d be open to questionable plays and actions and would jump on them if given any opportunity - he actually did, so there’s that.


Two hands where J high is going to be the winner after both miss their draws? What kind of action are you angling for in that hand? Bluff action? Where is the driver for action?

 

[Anthony Martino]

If you believe it was cheating - dont you think it would have been better to wait for a hand where you knew there would be action before cheating? Like if you knew it was aces full being beat by quads - the moneys going in there for sure.

Where was the money going in on this hand? Why play J4 there - even if you knew it would win - because what dumbass can you count on to shove on a missed draw?
You almost have to know that’s what he’s going to do - and that suggests maybe he was in on it too. His actions afterwards certainly suggest he’d be open to questionable plays and actions and would jump on them if given any opportunity - he actually did, so there’s that.


Two hands where J high is going to be the winner after both miss their draws? What kind of action are you angling for in that hand? Bluff action? Where is the driver for action?

A cheater might look for obvious cooler spots IF they can set them up (i.e. manipulate the deck)

If the cheaters can't manipulate the outcome, but DO have access to information (could be as basic as your hand is ahead up to knowing the runout or anything between) then when they see a HUGE pot that they are ahead or getting the right price, they take it

Their greed, ego or lack of poker knowledge may not permit them to realize how extremely suspicious it looks

 

[TheDuke]

She did not misread her hand. This is quite clear from the video and her statements afterward.

I think she almost certainly had intel on Garrett's hand when she made that call. If we knew that the outcome would be determined, I'd accept a wager on that bet at almost any realistic price. I've played millions of hands of poker. I've never in my life seen a call that "bad". This isn't just an outlier. This is the most extreme outlier of a sample of millions of hands. How she might have cheated (or if her intel technically even qualifies as "cheating") is anyone's guess. She could have some sort of device that vibrates to tell her when she's good, in which case, she'd have a partner. The dealer could have a flaw in their pitch that allows her to see some of the cards (note, that Garrett's seat, the 9 seat, is the most susceptible to this if the dealer does in fact do this). She could have perfect information like Postle did, though I highly doubt this is the case here. But she could easily have partial information. Her backer/lover Rip is sitting pretty close to Garrett, it's very plausible that he could have somehow gotten a peep at his cards and signaled to her in some way (this is very easy to do). There are all sorts of ways she could have gotten information about the strength of Garrett's hand here. Many of which are not far-fetched, and some of which are actually fairly common. Garrett is a fairly aware player though, and he knows how to protect his hands, so some of those may be less likely, but certainly not out of the question.

But the play itself is more than suspect. This just isn't a spot where anyone who isn't brand new to poker calls off their stack. Not even the worst of the worst players. I've read people discussing the merits of "calling someone down with Jack high" and asking whether or not they've ever done it or seen it, etc. But that completely fails to grasp the gravity of this particular scenario. Not all Jack high hands are the same. Doug Polk said it best when he said, "what if Garrett had 6c7c instead of 7c8c here and she called down with 8 high instead of Jack high? Would you still think it's just a 'bad call' and not likely to be cheating?" This is effectively the exact same scenario as that, just one pip higher. Jack high on the TT9 board is effectively the same call as calling with an 8 high here, hoping to "catch a bluff". She is clearly experienced enough in poker to understand what she's calling with, but just not quite experienced enough to realize that this call exposes her as having information that she's not supposed to have. I think she almost certainly had information about his hand. Whether it amounts to "cheating" or not, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see if more intel comes out. But nobody who actually plays poker makes that call without knowledge of the other player's cards. Ever. This is what cheating looks like.

If you think this is all a nothing burger and that it's just a random example of some poorly played hand, and that all this speculation is unwarranted, then you haven't played enough poker to understand what actually happened in this hand.

I think you're stating things as clear facts that are not really clear. Ie. Misreading of the hand, what she has stated (she's contradicted herself many times), etc.

Also, this isn't an outlier of millions of hands as you state. This is one hand out of dozens or perhaps hundreds at most of this player that has been captured on camera. You can't compare your online hand history to a live high stakes cash game. Especially with a player who likely has very little poker experience and guaranteed little experience being filmed. This hand needs to be studied in context with her other hands during that session and prior Hustler sessions.

There were pros at the table, who saw this firsthand, thst haven't made a firm judgment about the situation. I'd wager they have much more experience and knowledge of the game.

Her experience with cash games is not clear at all. Hell, looking at her Hendon Mob profile, you can't deduce that she's even an experienced tourney player.

The whole 'if you think otherwise, you're just a dolt without experience' is not a very convincing argument. You're dismissing info and then making assumptions to fit the narrative that she's an outright cheater.

 

[ekricket]

A cheater might look for obvious cooler spots IF they can set them up (i.e. manipulate the deck)

If the cheaters can't manipulate the outcome, but DO have access to information (could be as badic as your hand is ahead up to knowing the runout or anything between) then when they see a HUGE pot that they are ahead or getting the right price, they take it

Their greed, ego or lack of poker knowledge may not permit them to realize how extremely suspicious it looks

So go to all the trouble of setting up a massive cheating ring, technology, mirrors, smoke, cutting edge vibrating technology, etc…. And then just not think about any other part of your plan, like covering your tracks or your getaway.
Got it.
The plan is “just cheat”.
Everything else takes care of itself?

I consistently hear in these threads that these people are stupid crooks. Nobody has a problem believing they are stupid crooks, but a lot of people have a problem believing they could be stupid poker players. Stupid people do stupid things. Always.

 

[Bill_Man618]

I personally liked the comment on Reddit that was basically saying she's an idiot. The person said that it's dumb to argue about this because at the end of the day she either picked a 55/45 spot and got it in as a 5% favorite when she could presumably see GMans cards all game. This would by default make her a fucking idiot. Or she chose to put $135k into the middle with jack high and basically no way to win and this would also make her by default a fucking idiot. So at the end of the day we are all here trying to apply smart person logic to a woman who probably doesn't even know how to spell her own name. I'm still 50/50 on it because I could really see it go either way. At the end of the day she's an idiot and whether she cheated or she will still be one of the biggest morons to ever play the game.

 

[Highli99]

There seems to be consensus around Robbie being an idiot, but that consensus is based on the premise that she was playing poker to win money.

What if she was playing on a live stream to get famous, regardless of the financial outcome?

Peoples motivations are complicated.

 

[upNdown]

There were pros at the table, who saw this firsthand, thst haven't made a firm judgment about the situation. I'd wager they have much more experience and knowledge of the game.

Phil Ivey seems less interested in drama than anybody in the world. So I’m not shocked that he’s not making accusations.
But I’m curious to see if he returns to that game.

 

[Marius L]

If you believe it was cheating - dont you think it would have been better to wait for a hand where you knew there would be action before cheating? Like if you knew it was aces full being beat by quads - the moneys going in there for sure.

Where was the money going in on this hand? Why play J4 there - even if you knew it would win - because what dumbass can you count on to shove on a missed draw?
You almost have to know that’s what he’s going to do - and that suggests maybe he was in on it too. His actions afterwards certainly suggest he’d be open to questionable plays and actions and would jump on them if given any opportunity - he actually did, so there’s that.


Two hands where J high is going to be the winner after both miss their draws? What kind of action are you angling for in that hand? Bluff action? Where is the driver for action?

Gsrrett having an open ended straight flush draw is pretty likely to get plenty of action going. I'm sure most (or at least a lot of people) would shove all in on the turn when minraised by Robbi.

I personally liked the comment on Reddit that was basically saying she's an idiot. The person said that it's dumb to argue about this because at the end of the day she either picked a 55/45 spot and got it in as a 5% favorite when she could presumably see GMans cards all game. This would by default make her a fucking idiot. Or she chose to put $135k into the middle with jack high and basically no way to win and this would also make her by default a fucking idiot. So at the end of the day we are all here trying to apply smart person logic to a woman who probably doesn't even know how to spell her own name. I'm still 50/50 on it because I could really see it go either way. At the end of the day she's an idiot and whether she cheated or she will still be one of the biggest morons to ever play the game.

I agree with this a lot. Hard to tell what it is, because either she made a horrible legit play, or on the other hand she picked a really horrible spot to cheat. Even if she knew the runout amd that she would win, strategically it's a horrible spot to cheat because she should have understood the ramifications. Either way, she made a bad decision one way or another.

 

[Stufflymcstuff]

Playing for this kind of money while sucking this hard to get whatever fame she may get from this stream would possibly be even more idiotic than just plain ol’ not giving a fuck.

I lean towards not cheating and if she did it likely wasn’t a well coordinated effort. Maybe her backer bf snuck a peak and signaled that he’s bluffing.

 

[ekricket]

based on the premise that she was playing poker to win money.

I agree with you - very rarely do I play with people whose motivation is money. They may claim different, but winning or losing money is usually just a side effect of their true motivator.

Just ask anyone - they are “only playing with money they can afford to lose”. If that’s the true case then it’s not money driving them, they can just throw it away if they want.

 

[MatB]

I personally liked the comment on Reddit that was basically saying she's an idiot. The person said that it's dumb to argue about this because at the end of the day she either picked a 55/45 spot and got it in as a 5% favorite when she could presumably see GMans cards all game. This would by default make her a fucking idiot. Or she chose to put $135k into the middle with jack high and basically no way to win and this would also make her by default a fucking idiot. So at the end of the day we are all here trying to apply smart person logic to a woman who probably doesn't even know how to spell her own name. I'm still 50/50 on it because I could really see it go either way. At the end of the day she's an idiot and whether she cheated or she will still be one of the biggest morons to ever play the game.

Would she be an idiot if she thought she had J3 on a TT93 board?

Literally everything makes sense and it’s a great call if that’s what she thought she had.

 

[TheDuke]

Phil Ivey seems less interested in drama than anybody in the world. So I’m not shocked that he’s not making accusations.
But I’m curious to see if he returns to that game.

He seems totally disinterested even being there. What was his vpip for this session? 15% or less?

He might just be having off days when he's there, but he doesn't seem very engaged at all in terms of playing hands or even conversing with other players. It could also be he doesn't really talk much at the table ever. Amazing player but quite boring to watch. At least on these recent streams.

 

[Darson]

I must be really crappy at poker but... Garret bets, gets raised and then shoves with a draw. And we're complaining about her play? He's the one who boated the pot trying to get her to fold. And when she didn't and he lost to jack high, he can't really complain.

I honestly can't believe he took his money back. I also can't believe she offered it back. All this episode has told me is that Garret is a dick who plays at being a nice guy and the lady is about as good at poker as I am.

 

[Marius L]

I must be really crappy at poker but... Garret bets, gets raised and then shoves with a draw. And we're complaining about her play? He's the one who boated the pot trying to get her to fold. And when she didn't and he lost to jack high, he can't really complain.

I honestly can't believe he took his money back. I also can't believe she offered it back. All this episode has told me is that Garret is a dick who plays at being a nice guy and the lady is about as good at poker as I am.

You probably wanna do some reading on semi bluffing and fold equity. His huge all in is supposed to put a lot of pressure on the opponent making them fold out better hands and thus winning the hand without a showdown. If it does get called he still has a real good chance at winning the pot regardless with the straight and flush draw.

Edit to add: agree taking back the money is bad.