Balanar
Straight
I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance but what does having the same sharpie markings on a box as another person prove exactly? What are you vouching for? That the cancuns came in these boxes? Cos don't think that's in question here.
I think I'm out, guys (Casino Cancun drama advice requested) (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter luv2breformed
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I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance but what does having the same sharpie markings on a box as another person prove exactly? What are you vouching for? That the cancuns came in these boxes? Cos don't think that's in question here.
Look at my photo of the box about to be shipped to me in February
And look at the photo he sent me and posted
And this is relevant because ?
Even if it's 100% clear that these are chips from the first shipment...that doesn't change things for Luv2
Davin needs to take up his case with the seller....but he doesn't want to refund Davin (after receiving 'thousands of dollars')
The original seller should recoup his losses at the carrier but that's not possible because chips were not insured.
That was done to avoid extra cost & fees...I as a non-us chipper can understand that, but it comes with a risk.
So now a new member that made a great score has to give away his chips for free because
A. Davin did not insure his package
B. the original seller is not refunding Davin
C. Davin can post another WTS and pocket XX $ ?
Yeah...that sounds logical
There are some really fucked up members over here (looking at you @pltrgyst) ....and while Davin has been in my good book since he joined.... i'm surprised by some info in this thread.
Lying about what chips are stuck in customs against other respected members, not posting an official 'chips lost' post, a 'friend' that is out of 1K chips, ....
If you want to be transparent...post the real source & payment you made for these Cancun chips, so we all know how much you 'lost' on the whole transaction.
I offered to work something out,
Balanar
Straight
Thank you for sharing his reply. Could I kindly request you share your proposal as well for the sake of transparency? From the pm, looks like you were asking for 1.88/chip for the 900 chips?
Many members know about the lost box(this has been clearly stated) I didn’t state exactly what was the contents in the missing box for my reasons, @luv2breformed will do the rightful thing and I’ve told him in PM to do what his heart tells em, I knew for sure the chips would surface, there was no doubt in my mind that many chips would just vanish in thin air , I messaged OP as well to work something out
So what did you offer ?
Balanar
Straight
Yup, that was going to be my next question.
I said let’s work something out which never got to anything as I was denied and told he wanted them all, I planned to offer like half for finding the loss chips,
ive purchased chips from both parties in this issue. Definitely tough situation. Hope both parties can come to an agreement.
So what about the source and real cost of the chips, and what is your relationship with the seller ?
And what would your reason be to not disclose (no...lie) what chips went missing ?
Again...just to get everything clear and to assess what would be fair as resolution
Balanar
Straight
Hmm if it never got to anything and you were offering him half, why does he need to pay 1.88/chip?
He asked me what I had into them
I can't understand why you want compensation from Luv2 and not the original seller (that must have received A LOT of cash ($20K) if you paid premium) ?
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Def did not ask for any money are you serious bro, why you trying to instigate
Balanar
Straight
I'm sorry, what? As mentioned earlier it would fantastic if you could share more information about the situation, not just another individual's reply. Why wouldn't you just include your initial message as well?
So if you aren't sharing the information, the only way to get more would be to ask you. Which is what I'm doing.
I have no idea what you're accusing me of instigating.
gopherblue
Straight Flush
+1. That “5” is unusual, but NOT “unique.” In fact, I would say that it isn’t even determinative. For example: in the photos, the 5 appears closer to the edge of the box in one pic and not the other. And that is pretty clear to me.
Assuming that some chips did, in fact, go missing in transit, I also agree that there is absolutely NO proof whatsoever that the chips were stolen prior to the eBay sale. None. They could have been confiscated in customs and auctioned off by govt. Or somehow ended up being opened by Customs, then not returned to proper box, and became “lost property” that was then auctioned off by govt. But at that point, they are no longer the property of the original owner, and the original owner has no claim to them. In such a circumstance, good title passes to the buyer. Risk of loss to original receiver should have been insured by him—Otherwise, it is on Davin for risking the loss without insurance.
Is there a chance they were part of the shipment to Davin? Yes, there is a chance. But not a certainty. I feel for both parties here. I also think Luv was treated inappropriately by Davin in the messages, and has been unfairly maligned by others. Is there some middle ground? Perhaps, but I also think that, back to my original point above, I do not think that there is any determinative evidence that these chips ARE, in fact, the “missing” chips.
I have the feeling all worked out....
In the end, I think it's fair to say that you got a killer set for free (after selling off the remains) and so did a new member.
How is this not a good ending ?
I think the situation really stinks for you @davin; however, do you remember what you did to me when I got screwed over by a member? You had contact information for the member, which you said you would only give to me for a $100 ticket to an auction of yours. The ironic part is that I believe it might have been for some of these chips. I often hear people discuss chip karma...
You were flipping these chips. It was a business transaction on your part. The appropriate precautions should have been taken. The buyer of these chips did what a lot of others on here wouldn't. If it was someone else, there is a good chance there would be an ongoing auction to maximize profit.
You were flipping these chips. It was a business transaction on your part. The appropriate precautions should have been taken. The buyer of these chips did what a lot of others on here wouldn't. If it was someone else, there is a good chance there would be an ongoing auction to maximize profit.
Balanar
Straight
WTH?
Okay, let me see if I have this straight:
The following appear to be actual facts that can be supported with evidence:
Although the chips Tanner purchased appear to be from Davin's missing box shipment, there is no concrete proof that it is actually so. However, circumstantial evidence (much supplied by Davin) indicates that 900 of the missing 1000 chips are likely now in Tanner's possession. The whereabouts of the other 100 chips is unknown.
So how to proceed? For starters, the fact that Tanner has these chips has nothing to do with Davin directly. The person with whom Tanner has a potential moral obligation is the original seller, not Davin. Until delivered, the chips belong to the seller. If the seller had insurance on the package and has since been reimbursed, then it's on that seller to make Davin whole, not Tanner. If no insurance was purchased, that's on the seller -- he took a risk that the shipment would get delivered, and lost his wager. Same thing if he was misleading in his assessment of the package value, and was reimbursed for a smaller sum than they were actually worth.
If there is an open investigation regarding the missing package -- something only the original seller would know, not Davin except via second-hand knowlege -- then there are both serious legal and moral issues involved. Possible mail fraud/theft or hanky-panky at Customs, etc. Smart move is to tread lightly here, and cooperate fully.
Personally, I would want to know the following from Tanner's perspective, before I did anything at all.
Tanner, I would advise that you contact the original seller and find out the official status of the missing shipment. Any other action would be fiscally irresponsible imo.
Davin, I would advise that you be a little more forthcoming with truthful information that could help resolve this issue for all parties. Pretty disappointed in what I've read from you in this thread so far.
Imo, it's way too premature to be discussing what to do with the chips or any related financial transactions. Contact the seller first, and if necessary, the authorities.
The following appear to be actual facts that can be supported with evidence:
- Davin purchased roughly 11,000 Cancun chips, for an undisclosed price, from an undisclosed overseas seller
- One of the boxes containing 1,000 chips was never delivered to Davin.
- Davin has been deceptive and less than honest about several facets regarding these chips. He has also failed to answer whether or not he was reimbursed by the seller for the missing chips.
- Tanner spotted an eBay BIN ad and purchased 900 Cancun chips, which he now has in his possession.
- Legally, Tanner is not obligated to do anything with the chips, unless requested by authorities to return them.
Although the chips Tanner purchased appear to be from Davin's missing box shipment, there is no concrete proof that it is actually so. However, circumstantial evidence (much supplied by Davin) indicates that 900 of the missing 1000 chips are likely now in Tanner's possession. The whereabouts of the other 100 chips is unknown.
So how to proceed? For starters, the fact that Tanner has these chips has nothing to do with Davin directly. The person with whom Tanner has a potential moral obligation is the original seller, not Davin. Until delivered, the chips belong to the seller. If the seller had insurance on the package and has since been reimbursed, then it's on that seller to make Davin whole, not Tanner. If no insurance was purchased, that's on the seller -- he took a risk that the shipment would get delivered, and lost his wager. Same thing if he was misleading in his assessment of the package value, and was reimbursed for a smaller sum than they were actually worth.
If there is an open investigation regarding the missing package -- something only the original seller would know, not Davin except via second-hand knowlege -- then there are both serious legal and moral issues involved. Possible mail fraud/theft or hanky-panky at Customs, etc. Smart move is to tread lightly here, and cooperate fully.
Personally, I would want to know the following from Tanner's perspective, before I did anything at all.
- The original seller and his/her contact information, so that the items below could be verified:
- The actual cost of the missing package contents (1000 chips), both per-chip cost and shipping/insurance cost.
- Was that cost actually paid by Davin, and if so, was any of that cost reimbursed to him when the package went missing?
- Is there an open investigation of the missing package? Have any costs reimbursed to the seller by the shipping company?
Tanner, I would advise that you contact the original seller and find out the official status of the missing shipment. Any other action would be fiscally irresponsible imo.
Davin, I would advise that you be a little more forthcoming with truthful information that could help resolve this issue for all parties. Pretty disappointed in what I've read from you in this thread so far.
Imo, it's way too premature to be discussing what to do with the chips or any related financial transactions. Contact the seller first, and if necessary, the authorities.
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gopherblue
Straight Flush
FYP
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
What happens to packages at the post office when the shipping label gets torn off and lost while en route? Boxes with no return address and no delivery address definitely happen. I believe it's happened to me at least once or twice over the years. Perhaps there's a lost and found? How long are items held in lost & found until they're available to someone else? Are they then "stolen property"?
If someone truly did "steal" these and thereby trying to profit from selling them, don't you think they'd be trying to clear a little more than ~$10-15 after eBay fees and shipping costs?
I believe Davin is probably right that these chips were once intended for him. But it doesn't necessarily follow that they were stolen property. The tracking didn't say "delivered" right? These weren't stolen from davins doorstep right?
I think the USPS owes Davin the value of the lost package, not Tanner. The label probably got damaged during shipping and they later resurfaced.
Should make for a fun sermon though! I'm curious to hear what Jesus's thoughts are on the matter...
If someone truly did "steal" these and thereby trying to profit from selling them, don't you think they'd be trying to clear a little more than ~$10-15 after eBay fees and shipping costs?
I believe Davin is probably right that these chips were once intended for him. But it doesn't necessarily follow that they were stolen property. The tracking didn't say "delivered" right? These weren't stolen from davins doorstep right?
I think the USPS owes Davin the value of the lost package, not Tanner. The label probably got damaged during shipping and they later resurfaced.
Should make for a fun sermon though! I'm curious to hear what Jesus's thoughts are on the matter...
He would obv make 100K chips from the original batch...walk over water to Europe + Australia and spread the wealth
NOFI
USPS doesn't reimburse (or sell insurance to) package recipients. They only deal with shippers.
Part of any ongoing investigation regarding a "missing" package is contacting the seller for a detailed description of the box and contents, and then searching all potential lost/undeliverable depositories where it might have landed (been there, done that, even had the facility supervisor call me directly for more info). They seem to take it pretty seriously.
I don't know how long unclaimed items remain there (unlikely forever, but who knows), or what happens to them (if anything). I'd hope that unidentifiable packages are eventually opened for possible ownership leads before being either destroyed or sold, if either occurs.
colter ripton
Full House
I just dont think there is any way (atleast in the eyes of the law) to difinativley prove where these chips came from.
I believe that the chips are most likely from @davin lot.
That said, put yourself in @luv2breformed shoes. Hes suppose to just take davins word for it that these chips were from that lot?
There were definatley more chips from this casino than davin sold. Definatley alot more 1s, and probably alot more other denoms.
There are alot of questions still unanswered.
Who is the seller that wrote on the boxes. How does luv know that these were not written on the boxes at the casino, or at the auction house, or at the factory where they were made? (Besides davins word there is absolutely no other proof that this other seller wrote on these boxes)
Who is out money? And how much? That is important also. If the original seller got these for Penny's a piece and then sold them to davin why should luv then ship the chips to davin to be sold? Especially if the original seller already reimbursed him. Did he? How much did he pay for them?
I also dont think that anything would ever come of this legally. Do you really think that the us Gov. Is going to spend time and money tracking down people, conducting interviews, fingerprinting boxes, hiring handwriting experts etc? over a box of chips with a declared value of 100 dollars? I highly doubt that. Even if they did, unless they could definatley prove that these exact chips came from a lost box they wouldnt do anything about it. How could they possibly prove that? It's pretty far fetched in my opinion.
I also think that davins conduct has been pretty shitty. Threatening a new member that you'll call him out if he doesnt send you chips (basically for free) is pretty shitty. Lying about the contents of a lost, or possibly still in transit box to (admittedly) help sell your other chips. Also pretty shitty.
And then the kicker....... telling another new member that you will help him out only if he buys a raffle ticket for your chips. WTF is that.
If I were luv I'd keep these chips. I wouldnt feel bad about it at all. If I were contacted by any authorities (very super unlikely in my opinion) I would cooperate fully. If told to hand over the chips (even more unlikely and almost impossible in my opinion) I would certainly do so. Other than that......I legally and fairly purchased these chips and if I liked them i would keep them.
@davin I dont know you, and I dont think you are lying about these chips. People that I know and respect have posted publicly on many occasions in support of you and I think you are probably a pretty good guy. I do think you went about this whole thing wrong. I also think that luv has absolutely no moral, legal or anything else obligation to send you these chips.
I'd let it go and get back to chipping. Lost boxes happen when you send stuff through the mail. If chips surface months later, even if you are sure they were your lost chips, you have no rite to demand them back from the person who found them. I once bought 2000 near mint paulsons for 50 dollars. I lost over half of them in shipping. If they surfaced I would offer to buy them at fair market price and I wouldnt fault the pcf member if he didnt want to sell them to me. I certainly wouldnt demand that he/she send them to me for free.
That's the last I'll say on the subject.
I believe that the chips are most likely from @davin lot.
That said, put yourself in @luv2breformed shoes. Hes suppose to just take davins word for it that these chips were from that lot?
There were definatley more chips from this casino than davin sold. Definatley alot more 1s, and probably alot more other denoms.
There are alot of questions still unanswered.
Who is the seller that wrote on the boxes. How does luv know that these were not written on the boxes at the casino, or at the auction house, or at the factory where they were made? (Besides davins word there is absolutely no other proof that this other seller wrote on these boxes)
Who is out money? And how much? That is important also. If the original seller got these for Penny's a piece and then sold them to davin why should luv then ship the chips to davin to be sold? Especially if the original seller already reimbursed him. Did he? How much did he pay for them?
I also dont think that anything would ever come of this legally. Do you really think that the us Gov. Is going to spend time and money tracking down people, conducting interviews, fingerprinting boxes, hiring handwriting experts etc? over a box of chips with a declared value of 100 dollars? I highly doubt that. Even if they did, unless they could definatley prove that these exact chips came from a lost box they wouldnt do anything about it. How could they possibly prove that? It's pretty far fetched in my opinion.
I also think that davins conduct has been pretty shitty. Threatening a new member that you'll call him out if he doesnt send you chips (basically for free) is pretty shitty. Lying about the contents of a lost, or possibly still in transit box to (admittedly) help sell your other chips. Also pretty shitty.
And then the kicker....... telling another new member that you will help him out only if he buys a raffle ticket for your chips. WTF is that.
If I were luv I'd keep these chips. I wouldnt feel bad about it at all. If I were contacted by any authorities (very super unlikely in my opinion) I would cooperate fully. If told to hand over the chips (even more unlikely and almost impossible in my opinion) I would certainly do so. Other than that......I legally and fairly purchased these chips and if I liked them i would keep them.
@davin I dont know you, and I dont think you are lying about these chips. People that I know and respect have posted publicly on many occasions in support of you and I think you are probably a pretty good guy. I do think you went about this whole thing wrong. I also think that luv has absolutely no moral, legal or anything else obligation to send you these chips.
I'd let it go and get back to chipping. Lost boxes happen when you send stuff through the mail. If chips surface months later, even if you are sure they were your lost chips, you have no rite to demand them back from the person who found them. I once bought 2000 near mint paulsons for 50 dollars. I lost over half of them in shipping. If they surfaced I would offer to buy them at fair market price and I wouldnt fault the pcf member if he didnt want to sell them to me. I certainly wouldnt demand that he/she send them to me for free.
That's the last I'll say on the subject.
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