I think I'm out, guys (Casino Cancun drama advice requested) (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter luv2breformed
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JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
I would like to know more about this as well, and yes @Thomacetti 's advice is good for everyone going forward.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
While I agree with this completely, In Davin's defence our government lies to us, it's only fitting to lie back occasionally.
Thank you @Poker Zombie for beating me to this, I didn't want to make this point while risking a political threadjack.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
All the green sharpie pictures prove to me is that the same person wrote the numbers. Did only the missing box have green numbers? If no, then the boxes could have been marked at the casino way in advance of @davin even getting involved in the first place. I would expect all boxes to be similarly marked and therefore, the green numbers of @luv2breformed's purchase don't tell us anything.
This. @luv2breformed should notify eBay that a claim has been made that the items he won were stolen. Let eBay decide. If they conclude there is enough evidence that they were stolen, return the chips. eBay should make you whole as they don't want anything to do with being a fence.
The problem with this solution is that *if* they were stolen, no one holds the thief's feet to the fire. Which encourages it to happen again.
Let those with more access to what occurred investigate. Let them decide what should happen. *Then* @davin and @luv2breformed can figure out how to handle it between themselves.
So you didn't pay for insurance, but you want to be treated as if you did.
Got it.
This. @luv2breformed should notify eBay that a claim has been made that the items he won were stolen. Let eBay decide. If they conclude there is enough evidence that they were stolen, return the chips. eBay should make you whole as they don't want anything to do with being a fence.
The problem with this solution is that *if* they were stolen, no one holds the thief's feet to the fire. Which encourages it to happen again.
Let those with more access to what occurred investigate. Let them decide what should happen. *Then* @davin and @luv2breformed can figure out how to handle it between themselves.
So you didn't pay for insurance, but you want to be treated as if you did.
Got it.
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saleen121212
Full House
The more this thread goes on and the more facts brought to light the more my opinion changes to luv keeping them all and only sending money or chips if he wants to do a random good deed. At first I was 100 percent sure he should help a fellow member but was not required too. The shady details and way this was handled has changed my opinion along with some of the other advice given.
Geremie
Full House
But just because someone lies to you doesn’t make it morally right to lie to them. Just saying.
@luv2breformed
I hesitate to say this, because once I do, you’ll turn out to be an axe murderer, thief and *gasp* ... flipper, but liking this part of PZs post was not enough given what I read here.
If you decide to take responsibility to rectify a problem that you didn’t cause (and that some of the facts about are still unclear) you will be going past what should reasonably fall on your shoulders, IMO.
Quicksilver-75
4 of a Kind
The community is hard pressed to unwind and find the solution to this ethical dilema. There is however, a lot of middle ground. I’ve skipped several pages but from what I’ve read so far I believe:
Luv wants:
Preserve a great deal earned
To do the right thing
Davin wants:
His lost chips restored
Community wants:
Keep the peace
Resolution for both
Help chippers in need
Intersection:
Crowd source a ‘great deal’ for luv through either donated chips or small allotments of cash raises to send to Luv as payment in kind for the chips to be sent to Davin. In this situation we don’t ‘fix the past’ but we mend the present.
As a neutral 3rd party I will be happy to start a thread to do the above only IF this post is liked by BOTH @luv2breformed , @davin , and at least 15 other PCF members.
Luv wants:
Preserve a great deal earned
To do the right thing
Davin wants:
His lost chips restored
Community wants:
Keep the peace
Resolution for both
Help chippers in need
Intersection:
Crowd source a ‘great deal’ for luv through either donated chips or small allotments of cash raises to send to Luv as payment in kind for the chips to be sent to Davin. In this situation we don’t ‘fix the past’ but we mend the present.
As a neutral 3rd party I will be happy to start a thread to do the above only IF this post is liked by BOTH @luv2breformed , @davin , and at least 15 other PCF members.
I couldn't read the entire thread, but I purchased a set of the Cancuns and can confirm the writing on the box is identical. I had been talking with Davin about the chips that went missing from US Customs in NY for a while. Just last week, I sent him a text saying those chips were probably stolen in Customs and that it would be crazy if the thief googled PCF in an attempt to sell them, or Navels would track them down. Didn't mention that they may end up on eBay.
To me it is obvious these are the wayward chips. I did buy the other small set sold by a guy in France. Those three boxes didn't have the green sharpie.
All the boxed sold to Davin were marked with the same green sharpie.
Receiving Stolen Property is a Crime.....
What If I Did Not Know That the Property Was Stolen?
The key factor between receiving and possessing stolen property is the timing of the knowledge that it was stolen. If the person receiving the property knew it was stolen at the time of acquisition, then the person is guilty. If the person discovered the property was stolen after accepting it, but still intends to keep it or use it for a dishonest purpose (such as selling it to someone else), then the person is guilty of possessing stolen property.
Can I Be Convicted of Receiving Stolen Property If I Planned to Return the Items?
No. Anyone accepting or purchasing stolen property with the intent to give it back to the lawful owner is not guilty of receiving stolen property. This is because they lack the intent to benefit from receiving the stolen items.
What are the Possible Consequences of Receiving Stolen Property?
Receipt of stolen property is categorized as a "wobbler" meaning that the charge can be a felony or misdemeanor. A charge for a receipt of stolen property charge depends on the value of the property at issue. If the property has a high value, the defendant would be charged a felony. If the property value is low, the defendant would be charged as a misdemeanor. If you are found guilty, the court may do any or all of the following:
Imprisonment
Restitution
Fines (depending on the value of the property)
Probation
Edit: I read the first 2 pages and went back and read the rest. I was moving too fast here in that there is a plausible case where the Seller purchased those chips at a Customs auction.
Davin was asking for the contact info of the seller. I would think to try and pursue them for their source of the chips. My understanding was that more than 1000 chips went missing.
To me it is obvious these are the wayward chips. I did buy the other small set sold by a guy in France. Those three boxes didn't have the green sharpie.
All the boxed sold to Davin were marked with the same green sharpie.
Receiving Stolen Property is a Crime.....
What If I Did Not Know That the Property Was Stolen?
The key factor between receiving and possessing stolen property is the timing of the knowledge that it was stolen. If the person receiving the property knew it was stolen at the time of acquisition, then the person is guilty. If the person discovered the property was stolen after accepting it, but still intends to keep it or use it for a dishonest purpose (such as selling it to someone else), then the person is guilty of possessing stolen property.
Can I Be Convicted of Receiving Stolen Property If I Planned to Return the Items?
No. Anyone accepting or purchasing stolen property with the intent to give it back to the lawful owner is not guilty of receiving stolen property. This is because they lack the intent to benefit from receiving the stolen items.
What are the Possible Consequences of Receiving Stolen Property?
Receipt of stolen property is categorized as a "wobbler" meaning that the charge can be a felony or misdemeanor. A charge for a receipt of stolen property charge depends on the value of the property at issue. If the property has a high value, the defendant would be charged a felony. If the property value is low, the defendant would be charged as a misdemeanor. If you are found guilty, the court may do any or all of the following:
Imprisonment
Restitution
Fines (depending on the value of the property)
Probation
Edit: I read the first 2 pages and went back and read the rest. I was moving too fast here in that there is a plausible case where the Seller purchased those chips at a Customs auction.
Davin was asking for the contact info of the seller. I would think to try and pursue them for their source of the chips. My understanding was that more than 1000 chips went missing.
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WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Wait. We have proof that they were stolen now? I missed that.
We don't. People are just jumping to conclusions.
FDLmold
Royal Flush
Investigation: "The government investigated the government. The government could not find anything that the government did wrong. Bye bye chips."
"The government has found that the government did no wrong. And did a wonderful job. Thanks. The government "
ekricket
Royal Flush
The most likely scenario is that these were taken by customs for some reason - labeling, content, whatever, and that they were then unclaimed, possibly because the seller did not know what to do, and they were then disposed of by customs through their usual procedures. Not stolen.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Hold on here, we hardly have definitive proof that these are from the missing lot and that the person that sold to luv. Likelyhood and proof is different. We also don't know the out come of any investigation Davin pursued. If there has been some compensation, then the property was assumed lost and there is a question of it's status as stolen.
I don't get the feeling @luv2breformed would be adverse to surrendering the chips upon proof to do "the right thing" but we are far from knowing that.
If you check the sellers eBay account, he has alot of random things. I wouldn't be shocked if he was a reseller and buys the old customs lots for cash. None of it kept to a theme and all was for quick cash.
justsomedude
Straight Flush
As the saying goes, there are two sides to every tale, and I can’t ignore the other side of the story here...
I equate this to you buying a $1,000 car stereo from a pawn shop and a coworker seeing it installed in your dash on your drive to lunch the next day. He says “wow, that looks like the stereo that was supposed to be shipped to me, but went missing in customs this past May.”
You are under no obligation to give the property to your coworker... and it’s the job of the investigating authorities to determine the facts and the rightful owner (if indeed it is the article in question). Furthermore, any communication between the two alleged property owners (who both think they’ve made legal transactions up to this point) seems completely inappropriate. The determination of facts should be left to the authorities. Dragging it out in public is poor form by all involved.
Steamtrain
3 of a Kind
@luv2breformed
Welcome to the community!
Enjoy the chips!
Wait a few months and another drama will start up.
Welcome to the community!
Enjoy the chips!
Wait a few months and another drama will start up.
Steamtrain
3 of a Kind
I own a total of 4 boxes and 1 has green sharpie on it.
Shame on you for using a jump to conclusions mat when obviously were in a gang up mode. You gotta flow with the group with pitchforks and torch's.
You didn't edit out the part where you jumped to conclusions and bashed the OP, though.
.....driving....lol....did that now.
Also seems reasonable that buyer could/would have asked the seller, "Hey, would you have any more of these? Where did you get them?"
Really? Pretty harsh tone and serious accusations for not reading the entire thread.
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