I'm Considering Buying CPC - Advise Me, Roast Me, Counsel Me (2 Viewers)

[dazoki]

In my opinion - eBay is not it. You need an entry level set - you need basic stock designs/sets with storage cases (turnkey) in stock and being sold on Amazon ASAP.

As a new entrant - amazon teaches you about fatcats, slowplays at “i don’t have to think about it” prices shipped within days. Monte Carlos are only slightly more expensive but you can’t tell why via Amazon - throwing up CPC sets with a premium price range will brighten the contrast and at least beg the question to a first-timer of “why the eff are these so much more expensive then the fatcats”.

Why not have cheaper unweighted entry level sets all over Amazon with the CPC brand. “Collectors editions” and “customs” are next steps found through those entry stages and a category that continues to cater to the pcf-ers of the world.

 

[GreatWhiteDope]

Welcome! I love this thread, both for what it could mean for the chipping world, and also as a business case study.

Since you asked… here’s one man’s thoughts on the opportunity and path to success for someone acquiring CPC.

About me: I’m newer here and just bought my first “real” set of poker chips. I ended up buying a set of Paulsons from a member here after considering several options, including CPC. I’ve worked in B2C product management (albeit digital not physical) for almost a decade.

Product

CPC’s business comes from selling stock chips and custom chips so I’ll separate out my thoughts on each.

Stock

As others have mentioned, more stock designs should be available for folks who want casino-quality chips ASAP. There is an amazing network of designers here who appear to be willing to help make this happen. Stock designs should be available in both cash and tournament denominations. Speaking of denoms…

The default breakdowns for each set amounts could be cleaned up and made more efficient. Going a step further, you could implement a version of the chip calculator where users can select cash or tournament, stakes or base amount, number of players, bank size, etc to get them to their perfect breakdown.

To branch out, accompanying plastic cards, table toppers, cut cards and dealer buttons could be offered with these designs as well. Everything you need for an elevated poker night.

Custom

The chip design tool should be updated with a modern UI that makes the design process easier for newcomers.

You should be able to easily build chip designs, upload labels, select set size and breakdown, and place your order right from the tool. Time estimates should be as accurate as possible to build trust and good will.

That last part is obviously easier said than done. But I’m just speaking from the customer’s point of view.

Semicustom

Users who want custom inlays but don’t want to fully build out their own chip colors and patterns should be able to upload their own labels to be used on top of existing stock chip designs.

Marketing

With these product improvements. Growing CPC’s business will require an aggressive marketing strategy to grow two key customer segments.

Casual

Customer education is crucial here. CPC should go all in on a) branding itself as the only manufacturer of casino-grade clay chips b) clearly communicating why those are preferable over dice chips or mass market sluggos.

There’s a type of consumer who decides to buy something and then enjoys spending their time learning everything they can about that product (I’m in this camp and how I ended up here) so they can find the highest quality, “buy it for life” option. These people need to know CPC and should be the target for this customer segment.

Hardcore/hobbyist

The people on this forum and other chip/casino/Vegas enthusiasts. Have a noticeable presence at trade shows and conferences. Encourage and accommodate large orders and group buys. Expand and promote new customization options.

Above all else, continue to show respect to this group and provide top notch customer service.

Best of luck with this process!
Cheers

The semicustom comment strikes me as brilliant. If producing the base chips in bulk without retooling keeps the price down but still allows for the personalization of the inlays, I think that really could tap into a broader market.

 

[FDLmold]

 

[Cratty]

IMO, when it comes to semicustoms.. I think a great way to market custom chips to masses at a relatively low pricepoint would be initialed hotstamps. Just offer solid chips with a hotstamped denomination on one side, and offer custom 3 characters/initials on the other. Would just need to do some typset dies.

Could easily see those marketed across facebook, etc. Hell, do a groom's gift campaign.. nothing like wedding money.

But in the end I agree that largely what is needed is strong marketing/advertising, the market is pretty darn small.. and in order to have a consistent volume of orders (and willing to wait), you're going to need mass traffic to the site to catch the 1% whales.

 

[Gus]

I think you are onto something regarding the premium tables, however those guys advertise, kinda heavy. If you advertise, you are gonna have to pay for it, and to do that you are going to either have to drastically upscale production to make up the costs in volume, or increase prices. The price for a custom CPC set is already significant. I think a $3 per chip is pretty accurate for decent spots and an inlay. A 800 chip set is looking at around $2400+. If the prices go much higher, a lot of home game people will look at that and say, I can just go to Vegas, get 2 racks of $1's, 5 racks of $5's and a rack of quarters for $5200 and be able to return them at any time, in any condition for a 100% refund. Custom chips are like new cars, they lose resale value as soon as you own them.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them continue on, but to me I see this as a 'for the love of the game' type of opportunity.

Yep, marketing clearly isn't part of the CPC playbook based on their website and overall web presence. Thankfully extremely good customer service for inbound customers is top notch.

Custom set pricing comes with all the manufacturing costs of custom production. I'm personally the type of customer that wants to see 5 or 10 great looking in-stock sets. I was planning on just getting a Rounders CircleSquare set until they sold out many of the denominations I needed. Even that was a bit of a compromise. Now, having gone deep on their operation, I've been more sold on their custom capabilities and the frankly cool factor of making a unique set (no resale significant value).

 

[SSTB2213]

Just stumbled across this thread. It's an interesting read, and sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.

 

[maxim_666666]

Hi Gus,

Thanks for this post! My hope was to purchase three sets over the next few years. Custom chips are expensive, and if I’m going to do it, I want to do it right.

I would also suggest having updated designs. There are a lot of great designers on PCF that might willing to sell a design or to royalties. The current designs are nice, but dated. If someone buys a clay set, they want them to stand out. Bright colors and designs that have that wow factor.

I’m not sure what it takes to mix colors or create new ones, but more choices would be great. Retire the colors that most people dislike (DG Saturn, I’m looking at you).

However, even if nothing changed and everything stayed the same, I feel the PCF community would be grateful.

Why remove something that already exists? Saturn is a great color! The colors are bright and varied enough at the moment, but introducing new colors will create more problems, since it gives people more choice and variability and extends the waiting time. But, this is exactly what CPC did and brought the company to a new level.
A huge thank you to the CPC Team!

The only problem I see right now is selling the current standard sets. You just need to give people the opportunity to buy them individually.
SATURN!!!
Willkommensgruß GUS!

 

[maxim_666666]

A lot of the great advice so far is (understandably) from the passionate and invested CPC fanbase. A perspective from someone in the business world, and also who isnt' invested in the CPC brand -

If this business is going to last and thrive, it must pivot radically to draw in a much, much bigger, and before now undiscovered customer base, and do so by leaning into a luxury status - customers whose identity is bolstered by either the creative process of creating and/or the expensive outcome of buying high quality poker chips. (And yes, at the prices these sell for, they are firmly luxury items).

• Define a new customer base, and invest to attract them. The loyal forum user base is clearly not enough to sustain a business. How do you scale beyond word of mouth among niche enthusiasts? At this pricepoint, you are logically looking at a luxury / lifestyle item, branding and marketing, which is completely absent currently from the business model.
• The answer isn't just about selling poker chips - for GenZ, it's about selling a lifestyle (see brands like Stanley, and how they pivoted from pedestrian construction worker coffee containers to 15 year old fan girls and their travel lifestyles, and a price premium to match). Do you have people in your corner who know how to do this?
• Very first foundational item: the abysmal 80's website must be rebuilt and heavily invested in, following the wants and desires of this new, untapped market. As a luxury business, it must show (not tell) the 120+ year history of the company - people want a piece of history, and the confidence of generations of experts. This website must show the people living the life that this product enables - sell the dream. Think Rolex, luxury clothing brands, etc.
• The company's business model must account for the exponentially growing Chinese competition, and figure out how to stop it from eating its lunch continually. Do you beat the hybrid approach, or join them? (A well-delivered luxury approach will do this; a competition based on price will not)

I totally agree. When I first visited the ASM website, I had the thought more than once that this looks like a fake website from the 90s that is planning to steal my money...

 

[chipinla]

Did someone mention gold?

Live look @LeGold

 

[chippitydoodah]

Too Long?
Didn't Read?

1.Guy looks online for custom chips
2.Guy finds Poker Chip Forum
3.Guy finds CPC
4.Guy sees CPC is for sale
5.Guy posts he might buy it
6.Guy goes and tours CPC
7.Guy says he's not buying CPC
8.Guy has order in for custom chips

Still Too Long?

1.Guy looks online for custom chips
8.Guy has order in for custom chips

 

[LeGold]

Too Long?
Didn't Read?

1.Guy looks online for custom chips
2.Guy finds Poker Chip Forum
3.Guy finds CPC
4.Guy sees CPC is for sale
5.Guy posts he might buy it
6.Guy goes and tours CPC
7.Guy says he's not buying CPC
8.Guy has order in for custom chips

Still Too Long?

1.Guy looks online for custom chips
8.Guy has order in for custom chips

9. Profit?

 

[chippitydoodah]

9. Profit?

May have gotten a discount

 

[SSTB2213]

Too Long?
Didn't Read?

1.Guy looks online for custom chips
2.Guy finds Poker Chip Forum
3.Guy finds CPC
4.Guy sees CPC is for sale
5.Guy posts he might buy it
6.Guy goes and tours CPC
7.Guy says he's not buying CPC
8.Guy has order in for custom chips

Still Too Long?

1.Guy looks online for custom chips
8.Guy has order in for custom chips

Not Guy, Gus! Sorry, couldn’t resist the dad joke.

 

[mike32]

Right around the time Red bought ASM a member on CT who was also involved in the purchase (I think) offered an expanded line of custom chips. These were not cheap but they were pretty nice iirc. We bitched about the price and I'm sure the spot patterns ands designs, just like we always do. I think this happened before the Red Ott quality issues surfaced. We also bitched (rightly so) abouth the poor hot stamping that was being done at the factory. The chips almost looked cold stamped. This is all coming from memory so I'm sure some of it may be wrong, but I think the guy selling chips was Steve.

We also bitched up a storm right before BCC shut down. Yes they had quality issues aplenty, but we are a fickle group for sure! Now we love to talk about how we miss BCC.

We also bitched about the designs and price of the Paulson chips available to the public back in the day. I remember people saying how could a vendor charge $1.50 per chip for a mold with a pineapple in it? Many comments about how ugly and overpriced the Classics and the National Poker Series chips were.

I guess my point is as a group we define don't know what you got til it's gone! Plus we love to complain about things, which as I get older I realize more and more is human nature. I think buying CPC and being happy are almost mutually exclusive.

 

[JMC9389]

Right around the time Red bought ASM a member on CT who was also involved in the purchase (I think) offered an expanded line of custom chips. These were not cheap but they were pretty nice iirc. We bitched about the price and I'm sure the spot patterns ands designs, just like we always do. I think this happened before the Red Ott quality issues surfaced. We also bitched (rightly so) abouth the poor hot stamping that was being done at the factory. The chips almost looked cold stamped. This is all coming from memory so I'm sure some of it may be wrong, but I think the guy selling chips was Steve.

We also bitched up a storm right before BCC shut down. Yes they had quality issues aplenty, but we are a fickle group for sure! Now we love to talk about how we miss BCC.

We also bitched about the designs and price of the Paulson chips available to the public back in the day. I remember people saying how could a vendor charge $1.50 per chip for a mold with a pineapple in it? Many comments about how ugly and overpriced the Classics and the National Poker Series chips were.

I guess my point is as a group we define don't know what you got til it's gone! Plus we love to complain about things, which as I get older I realize more and more is human nature. I think buying CPC and being happy are almost mutually exclusive.

100% right.

Options for semi custom and custom clay have dwindled to just about nothing in the past 15 years. CPC is the last one standing in a long line of clay vendors that have gone by the wayside.

I hope that whoever buys the company keeps the same tradition of quality control but at the same time offering a more robust advertising and social media presence to increase business.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Everyone keeps saying they need to market to increase business, but being devils advocate here, PCF would get the pitchforks if the wait time moves from 6 months to 18 because of the new business as expansion of the facility for production isn't realistic.

It's a delicate balance to make things work.

 

[Gus]

May have gotten a discount

No discount, no special treatment, didn't even ask.

I did mail payment via physical check to avoid the CC fee tho, in case you think I'm not a stickler for value (lol).

 

[JMC9389]

Everyone keeps saying they need to market to increase business, but being devils advocate here, PCF would get the pitchforks if the wait time moves from 6 months to 18 because of the new business as expansion of the facility for production isn't realistic.

It's a delicate balance to make things work.

This is correct also. I don't speak for everyone, but I would be ok with a 16 to 18 month wait period versus 9 to 12 months if it meant better long term viability for the company.

Besides, I need them open so I can do the hotstamp tournament set that I want so you have more work to do!

 

[chipinla]

This is correct also. I don't speak for everyone, but I would be ok with a 16 to 18 month wait period versus 9 to 12 months if it meant better long term viability for the company.

Besides, I need them open so I can do the hotstamp tournament set that I want so you have more work to do!

Regardless of 16-18 or 9-12 I’m curious if business would increase if CPC offered a payment plan. I honestly have never asked so no idea if that’s even a thing.

I wouldn’t mind the wait as much if I didn’t have to fork over thousands of dollars up front if it was going to be a year wait. But I’d happily get in line more often if I could pay 200-300 a month. Or a fair percentage.

But I know lots of people aren’t in the position to up front thousands of dollars. But everyone could come up with 200-300 if they knew it was a 12 month wait. They’re waiting regardless so CPC should offer something like this.

There needs to be give and take by CPC and the customer.

 

[Huskerchipper]

Regardless of 16-18 or 9-12 I’m curious if business would increase if CPC offered a payment plan. I honestly have never asked so no idea if that’s even a thing.

I wouldn’t mind the wait as much if I didn’t have to fork over thousands of dollars up front if it was going to be a year wait. But I’d happily get in line more often if I could pay 200-300 a month. Or a fair percentage.

But I know lots of people aren’t in the position to up front thousands of dollars. But everyone could come up with 200-300 if they knew it was a 12 month wait. They’re waiting regardless so CPC should offer something like this.

There needs to be give and take by CPC and the customer.

I think this is an excellent point. I think half down and payments monthly would be ALOT easier for most people to stomach. My sets are big and plopping down 5k to 6k and waiting a year doesn't sit well with MOST people. As long as the order is paid in full before production starts should be a reasonable ask.

 

[softchewy]

Many comments about how ugly and overpriced the Classics and the National Poker Series chips were.

To be fair, the Classics are still ugly and overpriced.

 

[upNdown]

Its interesting that so many people recommend more stock options. I'm not opposed to CPC stock sets. I just never pulled the trigger on one because it felt like a waste of money, since i could have full customs for the same price. Maybe it's a hurdle only in my mind, but I don't think I'd ever have much interest in a stock CPC set unless it was significantly cheaper than a custom set. And as I understand it, the nature of the production of these chips doesn't allow for the volume discount sort of pricing that would allow CPC to sell stock chips for less.

 

[Gus]

I think this is an excellent point. I think half down and payments monthly would be ALOT easier for most people to stomach. My sets are big and plopping down 5k to 6k and waiting a year doesn't sit well with MOST people. As long as the order is paid in full before production starts should be a reasonable ask.

It's tough from the customer side to pay up front with long lead times, but the business perspective is "some % of custom orders will go unpaid if we don't require full payment up front."

One hopes that's just 1% or at least less than 5% of orders. However a lot can happen in a year of lead time, and it's possible that 10%+ orders would go unpaid. The result is the company being stuck with custom chips. And now they're out all the unpaid balance unless they're willing to send these debts to collections agencies to try to recover (which looks terrible and will result in horror stories from simple misunderstandings).

Stock orders don't have this issue of course. Pay the money, and they ship the chips.

Some middle ground of 30-50% up front, then a notice that "we're about to start your chip production, pay the balance in full this week" and then a 2-week delivery window from that date could make sense.

 

[Phoe9x]

I'm not opposed to CPC stock sets. I just never pulled the trigger on one because it felt like a waste of money, since i could have full customs for the same price

It’s so much easier and less time consuming to order a stock design for the average person. Plus CPC would be able to bulk produce and lower the cycle time. That’s the benefit of having stock designs that may be more up to date.

A lot of people here go to CPC for customs which is why you feel that way. But if you’re an average joe, it’s so simple to pick up a really nice cohesive set rather than spend months designing your own thing. It’s just like picking up a jacks Detroit set, rather than hunting for individual chips and relabeling.

 

[EverGreenGSO]

To be fair, the Classics are still ugly and overpriced.

NPS too fudge those molds

 

[chipinla]

It's tough from the customer side to pay up front with long lead times, but the business perspective is "some % of custom orders will go unpaid if we don't require full payment up front."

One hopes that's just 1% or at least less than 5% of orders. However a lot can happen in a year of lead time, and it's possible that 10%+ orders would go unpaid. The result is the company being stuck with custom chips. And now they're out all the unpaid balance unless they're willing to send these debts to collections agencies to try to recover (which looks terrible and will result in horror stories from simple misunderstandings).

Stock orders don't have this issue of course. Pay the money, and they ship the chips.

Some middle ground of 30-50% up front, then a notice that "we're about to start your chip production, pay the balance in full this week" and then a 2-week delivery window from that date could make sense.

I don’t think they’d be stuck with custom chips. Sure, maybe they’d make the clay which could hopefully be used elsewhere etc but they wouldn’t make the chips until near the end of the wait. So there should be some type of communication. “Hey, your chips will be made in 2 months. Order needs to be paid in full before we move on to the final steps.”

I think it’s a conversation worth at least having with @David Spragg

 

[Gus]

I don’t think they’d be stuck with custom chips. Sure, maybe they’d make the clay which could hopefully be used elsewhere etc but they wouldn’t make the chips until near the end of the wait. So there should be some type of communication. “Hey, your chips will be made in 2 months. Order needs to be paid in full before we move on to the final steps.”

I think it’s a conversation worth at least having with @David Spragg

This will be a decision for the new owners, one of about a hundred they'll have to figure out! Wishing them luck and I hope they're chippers so they'll take good faith feedback from PCF'ers.

 

[extreme517]

No discount, no special treatment, didn't even ask.

I did mail payment via physical check to avoid the CC fee tho, in case you think I'm not a stickler for value (lol).

Yep, I mailed in a physical check as well! Excited to see your completed set!

 

[Gus]

David said less than 6 months to deliver, hoping that's the case!

They're all subtle (or not) bitcoin references and memes, shoved into plausible poker club names. I'll get to regale players at my home games with all my bitcoin knowledge while they plead mercy and yell at me to please just post the big blind already!

 

[FestiveKnight]

Its interesting that so many people recommend more stock options. I'm not opposed to CPC stock sets. I just never pulled the trigger on one because it felt like a waste of money, since i could have full customs for the same price. Maybe it's a hurdle only in my mind, but I don't think I'd ever have much interest in a stock CPC set unless it was significantly cheaper than a custom set. And as I understand it, the nature of the production of these chips doesn't allow for the volume discount sort of pricing that would allow CPC to sell stock chips for less.

What’s a way to get more business? Advertise, what do you do when you advertise? Send people to your website.

With CPC’s current website and product offering what happens when you hit the website? Either stock chips or a massive barrier to entry custom design process.

Better stock options = ability to advertise and get new customers with lower barrier