Kem durability (2 Viewers)

[gotgame]

Hi everyone,

I am debating purchasing some Kem cards for the summer and am curious with how durable they are. I am familiar with copags and faded spades but is the steeper price justified? Any insightful information is appreciated, thanks!

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

You're going to get lots of answers, mine is just one of them: some (especially older) KEMs are wonderful for decades, others will show up already bowed. The recent price tag is completely ridiculous and its nowhere near worth it. They feel nice and shuffle nicely, but Ive been much happier with Desjgn and Fournier that have had much less bowing in the cards.

 

[Kentucky]

I bought a setup of Kems April 2022. They were fantastic. Bought another setup a month later.

Played with the red/blue set about 4 times. I loved how well they shuffled. Amazing cards. I never felted the black/gold setup, but without meaning to started a great science experiment by unwrapping one deck to get a closer look at the design. I haven’t even shuffled them. Apart from about 30 minutes they’ve been in the box for the last two years. The box was in a stack of other brand cards in a cupboard. Needless to say the other cards are all fine.

I think the cellulose/plastic absorbs atmospheric moisture. The gold set is noticeably bigger than the black. The top card bends away from the deck. This is the bowing people talk about. The blue/red set up has developed a crazy paving effect.

KEMs are great to play with but I’m never buying any more. They just don’t last.

 

[Fran]

I bought a setup of Kems April 2022. They were fantastic. Bought another setup a month later.

Played with the red/blue set about 4 times. I loved how well they shuffled. Amazing cards. I never felted the black/gold setup, but without meaning to started a great science experiment by unwrapping one deck to get a closer look at the design. I haven’t even shuffled them. Apart from about 30 minutes they’ve been in the box for the last two years. The box was in a stack of other brand cards in a cupboard. Needless to say the other cards are all fine.

I think the cellulose/plastic absorbs atmospheric moisture. The gold set is noticeably bigger than the black. The top card bends away from the deck. This is the bowing people talk about. The blue/red set up has developed a crazy paving effect.

KEMs are great to play with but I’m never buying any more. They just don’t last.

I have (sadly) exactly the same problem with all my recent KEM cards…

 

[mike32]

I think they are durable if you don’t count warping as a durability issue. Also I think the price is ridiculous.
My advice is don’t buy them.

 

[Colquhoun]

I love KEMs too but they often bow and warp. I've got some that do, and some that don't, but none are worth what they're charging for them lately.
The best deal right now is the Broken Arrow bridge size, only $7.50 per setup. I LOVE these cards, and it comes with 2 cut cards and the best storage box in the business.
https://brokenarrowcards.square.sit...rdroom-setup-black-gold/14?cs=true&cst=custom

 

[BGinGA]

If you are looking for problem-free cards, KEM is not the brand for you.

 

[davefr]

Hi everyone,

I am debating purchasing some Kem cards for the summer and am curious with how durable they are. I am familiar with copags and faded spades but is the steeper price justified? Any insightful information is appreciated, thanks!

They don't fade like Copag and handle better than stiff Faded Spade. The problem is that they can warp and the new price is insane. Angel Poker is a superior premium KEM substitute. For a value brand that's pretty close to Kem's acetate handling try Lot Fancy.

 

[ChipTalker]

I used to love KEMS pre the USPC days but then hated them after. I am also curious and never really found a 100% straight answer to if the casino Kems are diff quality and if we can get them. My local casino uses Kems and they never seem to suffer from these issues. Now maybe they just change so frequently that you would not notice. But honestly, I do not think so since their "fresh" decks still have the deckmate streaks on them so they use them multiple days. I believe they must be some higher quality stock. What I am personally looking at most is the finger nail dent or card capper creases. I see these on all my decks like Kem, Fournier, Desjgn, Faded Spade ... but I do not see them in the casino.

 

[davefr]

I used to love KEMS pre the USPC days but then hated them after. I am also curious and never really found a 100% straight answer to if the casino Kems are diff quality and if we can get them. My local casino uses Kems and they never seem to suffer from these issues. Now maybe they just change so frequently that you would not notice. But honestly, I do not think so since their "fresh" decks still have the deckmate streaks on them so they use them multiple days. I believe they must be some higher quality stock. What I am personally looking at most is the finger nail dent or card capper creases. I see these on all my decks like Kem, Fournier, Desjgn, Faded Spade ... but I do not see them in the casino.

I think it's two factors:
Casinos use KEMs in poker rooms and given the direct player handling they change them out frequently.
Casinos are generally a pretty constant temp/humidity environments.

I bet they are the same cards.

 

[Bacon Dad]

I’m picking up some Kem cards today that were manufactured in 1960 & ‘61. I’ll let you know how the older cards compare to my brand new 2022 Kems that were bowed even before opening the cellophane.

 

[btbmason]

I only own two types of Kem cards, 1 well-used pre-USPC circleback setup and 3 new/unused of the same casino (Horseshoe Cleveland) setup.

All bowed.

Impressively one of the casino setups still wrapped in plastic is bowed.

 

[Klobberer]

All of my KEMs are perfect, but I haven't bought a setup in 15 years. My oldest date back to the 50s. Left one deck out of the case for a few days and they did warp, but warm water, towel dry and back in the case with a dealer button on top and they're back to perfect.

 

[upNdown]

I wonder what you mean by durability. I believe I’ve played with most of the premium plastic brands, probably 10+. I haven’t noticed a difference in durability, as I’d define it. Plastic cards are durable. They don’t get damaged with normal play. I don’t think that varies much, brand to brand. People say copags fade. I haven’t had a copag setup fade, but it happened with Piatniks. So I won’t argue whether or not some brands resist fading better than others. But in all other ways that I’ve seen, if you’re looking for durable, pretty much any plastic brand will do.

(Ken’s are the best feeling cards in the world. They do have a bowing issue, which is manageable with a little voodoo. They’re not worth $50+ per setup, because no cards are worth that much.)

 

[Klobberer]

My Copags are the only ones that "faded". More like the color wore off the faces. Not enough to make them unplayable. Just look a little worn.

 

[Old State]

Do a search. Tons of threads on this. Kems are hands down the best feeling cards made IMO. I bought dozens of setup from every brand looking for something that feels close and there is nothing in their league.

Here’s the thing….you need to store them upside down with a cut card and …better yet…a cut card and small dealer button on top. Keep them out of humidity. They are acetate cards and ALL acetate cards have this issues. It’s just Kem are the most common by far.

There is a reason nearly every casino in America uses them and has for decades. They feel amazing a resist creasing and marking … but they require some storage techniques. I personally think they are more than worth the effort.

If you don’t want to do all that don’t buy them. I would recommend Cartimundi CCPs which. An be found pretty cheap on Amazon. Best value in cards.

 

[Old State]

I wonder what you mean by durability. I believe I’ve played with most of the premium plastic brands, probably 10+. I haven’t noticed a difference in durability, as I’d define it. Plastic cards are durable. They don’t get damaged with normal play. I don’t think that varies much, brand to brand. People say copags fade. I haven’t had a copag setup fade, but it happened with Piatniks. So I won’t argue whether or not some brands resist fading better than others. But in all other ways that I’ve seen, if you’re looking for durable, pretty much any plastic brand will do.

(Ken’s are the best feeling cards in the world. They do have a bowing issue, which is manageable with a little voodoo. They’re not worth $50+ per setup, because no cards are worth that much.)

Agreed on Kems

I have had Copags that faded. This was almost 20 years ago and I don’t know if they have changed. The decks that faded and bled were HEAVILY used in cash and long tournament play for a couple years. I put them away and opened them up about a year later. The ink from the backs bled all over the faces of the cards.

I think if you have modest use they are fine.

 

[Kentucky]

you need to store them upside down with a cut card and …better yet…a cut card and small dealer button on top. Keep them out of humidity. They are acetate cards and ALL acetate cards have this issues.

All my cards are stacked on the same shelf of the same cupboard - Modiano, Desijgn, Copags, Fournier, Kems. The Kems are the only ones that are no longer the same size/shape/condition as when I bought them. Maybe of the cards I have they are the only acetate ones?

haven’t had a copag setup fade, but it happened with Piatniks

I’ve seen Copags in local clubs look worn out faded as if people have been rubbing them on the cloth for good luck 24/7. I haven’t had a problem with mine though.

 

[Old State]

All my cards are stacked on the same shelf of the same cupboard - Modiano, Desijgn, Copags, Fournier, Kems. The Kems are the only ones that are no longer the same size/shape/condition as when I bought them. Maybe of the cards I have they are the only acetate ones?


I’ve seen Copags in local clubs look worn out faded as if people have been rubbing them on the cloth for good luck 24/7. I haven’t had a problem with mine though.

Unless you have Modiano Platnum Acetate then Kems are the only acetates on that list. I’ve stored my Kems as I described for the last 15 years and all are flat

 

[LeLe]

KEMs is Short Lived, High Cost & a Huge Disappointment.

 

[davefr]

Do a search. Tons of threads on this. Kems are hands down the best feeling cards made IMO. I bought dozens of setup from every brand looking for something that feels close and there is nothing in their league.

Try Angel Poker (acetate). Even better feel/handling than KEM but without the problems.

 

[Old State]

Try Angel Poker (acetate). Even better feel/handling than KEM but without the problems.

Easier said than done. Where would you source these at a decent price? I’ve only seen them for sale from Japanese vendors with extremely high cost or shipping.

 

[Old State]

I’ve shown this before …here are all my Kem decks that’s have been stored as I talked about. The oldest is 2003 that wasn’t initially stored any special way but stayed flat. One other setup I had warped really bad after leaving them out of the box on a table in an unfinished basement for a few day. I threw them out. This was around 2004 and I learned the storage trick after that

The decks date from 2003 through 2019. I haven’t bought any more Kems because I have too many…and they are way too expensive now. The value isn’t there. I never payed over $23 for a two deck set up

 

[davefr]

Easier said than done. Where would you source these at a decent price? I’ve only seen them for sale from Japanese vendors with extremely high cost or shipping.

It's very easy and shipments from Amazon Japan arrive very quickly. Angel Poker (acetate) are $23.96 USD at amazon.co.jp. Shipping is around $20 for one setup. The key is to buy several setups so you spread the shipping across multiple decks. Shipping only goes up about $3 for each additional setup. (ex: 4 setups is $116 shipped so that brings the total price down to around $30/setup). You can also add a few decks of Angel 100% Plastic. They run about $5/deck and are also very good cards (PVC).

Angel Poker are the nicest cards I've ever played with.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/product/B06XRBRWZR/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=AN1VRQENFRJN5&th=1

P.S. When you shop at Amazon.jp click the box that converts to English and USD.

 

[Chippy18]

I own 2 setups because of their so called reputation, but they are not durable in their shape and ink.

The feel and riffle is unmatched, but not worth a penny if they give up so quick. For me its a brick of 12 copag decks and meanwhile peeking into Fournier which seems to resemble the copag in stiffness and have good handling.

 

[Old State]

It's very easy and shipments from Amazon Japan arrive very quickly. Angel Poker (acetate) are $23.96 USD at amazon.co.jp. Shipping is around $20 for one setup. The key is to buy several setups so you spread the shipping across multiple decks. Shipping only goes up about $3 for each additional setup. (ex: 4 setups is $116 shipped so that brings the total price down to around $30/setup). You can also add a few decks of Angel 100% Plastic. They run about $5/deck and are also very good cards (PVC).

Angel Poker are the nicest cards I've ever played with.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/product/B06XRBRWZR/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=AN1VRQENFRJN5&th=1

P.S. When you shop at Amazon.jp click the box that converts to English and USD.

Thanks. I’ll have to see if some friends want a deck