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KK on the button straddle (1 Viewer)

bentax1978

bentax1978

4 of a Kind
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Hero recently sat down at this 1/3 NLHE table, so no meaningful reads on anyone at this point. Play is 8-handed, and about half the players are button straddling. (usually for $6, sometimes more). Stacks at the table range from about $125 to $800.

Hero straddles on the button for $6, putting the action on the SB to start.

SB fold.
BB (Villain) raises to $20. [BB has about $600 to start the hand]
MP calls $20 [MP has $125 to start the hand]

Button (Hero) looks down and sees KK on his button straddle. Hero has $380 total. What should he do?
 
New to the table? I wouldn't object to a crazy shove here. No one knows Hero or has any idea of how he plays.

However, let's take a more traditional route and make it $50 on top or $70 all day.
 
DrStrange said:
New to the table? I wouldn't object to a crazy shove here. No one knows Hero or has any idea of how he plays.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. Has to be a first for me :) If that isn't the play then I'm probably raising to 75.
 
I'm going back and forth in my head the proper amount. Stack size is playing into it, not sure why the MP just called leaving him with only $105 left, so he's going to be all in after the flop and I think that BB will be getting too good of odds to fold. If you raise to $100 (and both call) you'll be all in after the flop (unless an A is up there). $100 might not be a bad bet as it should get MP to go all in and not open the betting with the $25 raise, and it might be enough for the BB to fold. Guessing that's not the case as you call the BB the villain.

My problem is what is the move after the flop, jam, so why not now. There is only one hand ahead of us at this moment, if everyone folds you've increased your stack >10% but for some reason I think the MP will have to call. BB is the wild card but the shove should induce a fold.
 
I try to never argue with the Dr. so his play is probably correct. However, taking the MP call into account, my dumb ass would probably make it $100 even.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
Sorry didn't realize you told me about this hand. You must be the villain :)
Click to expand...

Sir, the villain of the table left with $325 of my chips about an hour before this hand. Something about having to visit his parents. I think he was just looking for an excuse to hit and run, though if he was going to do that, he should have left when there were twice as many chips in his stack :p
 
Ok, back to the hand.

I think we can all agree that Hero should raise here, and the suggested amount are in the $70-100 range.

Hero makes it $80 total.

Action on BB, who raises to $200 total.

MP call for less ($125 total).

So there's now $405 is now in the pot. MP is all-in, action is on Hero ($300 left). Call, jam, or fold?
 
I built my stack back up to 1225 before I cashed out, after those two pretty bad coolers. Also I'm pretty sure you trying to crack my aces with 56 makes you the villain.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
I built my stack back up to 1225 before I cashed out, after those two pretty bad coolers. Also I'm pretty sure you trying to crack my aces with 56 makes you the villain.
Click to expand...

I really can't argue with that, other than to remind you that my 56 was suited and I had position; None of which justifies my actions on that hand :p

I'll start a new thread for that crazy hand after this one.
 
I'm jamming and hoping that luck is on my side.
 
Any thoughts on:

- whether $20 is a typical raise over a $6 straddle in this game;
- whether you have seen the BB make any preflop raises from early position yet (over a straddle from the blinds would obviously be most helpful).

$20 would be in line with my PFR size with aces in this spot, but I don't particularly mind taking aces up against multiple callers from OOP, but I know most people tend to size their raises a little bigger from up front to prevent from having to play against multiple opponents on the flop with one pair.
 
Not folding... so jam

<minor threadjack>
BTW -- how did you like the Horseshoe? Didn't realize you and Chippy were there or I would have joined you
</minor threadjack>
 
jbutler said:
Any thoughts on:

- whether $20 is a typical raise over a $6 straddle in this game;
- whether you have seen the BB make any preflop raises from early position yet (over a straddle from the blinds would obviously be most helpful).

$20 would be in line with my PFR size with aces in this spot, but I don't particularly mind taking aces up against multiple callers from OOP, but I know most people tend to size their raises a little bigger from up front to prevent from having to play against multiple opponents on the flop with one pair.
Click to expand...

$16 was probably the most common straddle raise, but $20 (sometimes $30) wasn't an atypical raise either.

Unfortunately, Hero hasn't been at the table long enough to get a good feel for BB's play.
 
MikesDad said:
Not folding... so jam

<minor threadjack>
BTW -- how did you like the Horseshoe? Didn't realize you and Chippy were there or I would have joined you
</minor threadjack>
Click to expand...

I liked it. I had played there a few times before. Most of my home game group actually prefers MD Live, but I figured I'd make them try something different. There seem to be more games (and more options) at MD Live, including 2/2 PLO, so next time I'm in town I'll probably go there.
 
I have laid down kings preflop before, but I don't think this is the spot where I could add another one to that list. If you knew the player better or if you had a better sense of the gameflow then maybe I could argue it, but here I think you have to stick it in and hope that if you are ahead that he feels pot committed with his QQ or AK.
 
jbutler said:
I have laid down kings preflop before, but I don't think this is the spot where I could add another one to that list. If you knew the player better or if you had a better sense of the gameflow then maybe I could argue it, but here I think you have to stick it in and hope that if you are ahead that he feels pot committed with his QQ or AK.
Click to expand...

100% agree.

So, for what it's worth, I was actually the BB/Villain in this hand and the Button/Hero was the other guy.

I framed question the other way because the BB ended up folding to my $200 bet ($120 raise) and turned over his KK. Needless to say the entire table was quite surprised, myself included. I have personally folded KK before in a live cash game (twice), but this situation would not have been one of them.

I guess I was curious if anyone else thought folding KK in this situation was a justifiable move.
 
Last edited:
bentax1978 said:
100% agree.

So, for what it's worth, I was actually the BB/Villain in this hand and the Button/Hero was the other guy.

I framed question the other way because the BB ended up folding to my $200 bet ($120 raise) and turned over his KK. Needless to say the entire table was quite surprised, myself included. I have personally folded KK before in a live cash game (twice), but this situation would not have been one of them.

I guess I was curious if anyone else thought folding KK in this situation was a justifiable move.
Click to expand...

I've folded kings once in a cash game. It was against a player I know very well in my home game. After I folded he rolled over Aces.

As stated, in this spot vs an unknown.........jammity, jammity, jam :)
 
bentax1978 said:
100% agree.

So, for what it's worth, I was actually the BB/Villain in this hand and the Button/Hero was the other guy.

I framed question the other way because the BB ended up folding to my $200 bet ($120 raise) and turned over his KK. Needless to say the entire table was quite surprised, myself included. I have personally folded KK before in a live cash game (twice), but this situation would not have been one of them.

I guess I was curious if anyone else thought folding KK in this situation was a justifiable move.
Click to expand...
And you were holding?
 
bentax1978 said:
100% agree.

So, for what it's worth, I was actually the BB/Villain in this hand and the Button/Hero was the other guy.

I framed question the other way because the BB ended up folding to my $200 bet ($120 raise) and turned over his KK. Needless to say the entire table was quite surprised, myself included. I have personally folded KK before in a live cash game (twice), but this situation would not have been one of them.

I guess I was curious if anyone else thought folding KK in this situation was a justifiable move.
Click to expand...

CraigT78 said:
And you were holding?
Click to expand...

What did MP do?
 

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