Legal cardroom in New York? (2 Viewers)

[Rakrul]

IANAL but if NY allows people to play poker without any non-player profiting, then I guess that's what they're doing. However, I'm guessing if someone wants them gone, they will be. There would be several people profiting here, such as dealers, waiters, etc. I'm guessing they're paid by the non-profit organization (which obv. can't profit) and the owner gets a manager salary. That in itself is ok, but in the end they profit from gambling and I'm guessing there's no case law on this so you need a lawyer that's prepared for when the shit hits the fan.

 

[Colquhoun]

Nothing gets done in NY without the right wheels getting greased.
And nothing is enforced until it is in the official’s best interest to act on it.

 

[Taghkanic]

IANAL but if NY allows people to play poker without any non-player profiting, then I guess that's what they're doing. However, I'm guessing if someone wants them gone, they will be. There would be several people profiting here, such as dealers, waiters, etc. I'm guessing they're paid by the non-profit organization (which obv. can't profit) and the owner gets a manager salary. That in itself is ok, but in the end they profit from gambling and I'm guessing there's no case law on this so you need a lawyer that's prepared for when the shit hits the fan.

Good points.

Not sure if the manager would have to also be a player to make that salary more valid.

Also, my impression is that the operator of the club owns the building. Not sure if rent gets paid, or if the operator provides the space gratis.

That they felt so confident about their legality as to be openly written up in a large circulation newspaper makes me think they felt untouchable, for some reason. My suspicion (only a suspicion) is that this was due to some connection to the authorities who assured them they were not going to get in trouble, because I still don't see any way that this could overcome New York’s prohibitions against unlicensed poker.

 

[Taghkanic]

To my mind, a much safer route would be to set up some more common form of membership organization (such as a country club or rod & gun club) whose clubhouse includes a common room or other space which members can reserve to host events. The management of the club would have no role in organizing poker games, and would survive based on membership dues and generic event fees.

New York certainly allows organizations like firehouses, VFWs, Legion Halls, and others to host “charity” poker tournaments, where the vast majority of the money goes to the players, but a percentage is “donated” to the venue.

For example, I played for years in an Italian-American club in a neighboring county that functioned like that. Ditto various firehouses and veterans’ halls.

In one of these, I recall the organizer and a rep of the hall carefully filling out some sort of form which documented the donation. Not sure to whom they sent it. But the vast majority of these games and venues file zero paperwork that I’ve ever noticed (and I had a reg in my home game who used to host this type of thing weekly).

I think the general attitude in my rural area is “leave the firemen and the vets and the hunters alone.” Not sure if they would take the same attitude to (say) an upscale golf club.

 

[Rakrul]

That they felt so confident about their legality as to be openly written up in a large circulation newspaper makes me think they felt untouchable, for some reason. My suspicion (only a suspicion) is that this was due to some connection to the authorities who assured them they were not going to get in trouble, because I still don't see any way that this could overcome New York’s prohibitions against unlicensed poker.

Yeah I suspect so as well. They've been operating for 15 years though and whoever was in power holding their protective hand over them might be long gone, or they have some other agreement there.

I guess a legal way to do this is first off membership fees. Then you have participation fees, where you pay to join an event such as a tournament (i.e. tournament rake but not really), then you pay an hourly rate to stay there if you're not in an event but still hangs there (i.e. cash game rake but not really). It sounds hard to actually do though so if that's the method, I guess players clock in and out and gets an invoice when they leave? Seems weird though.

Also, there's still the issue where organization facilitates and organizes gambling which they might get caught on but then you're in to the fine print of the law.

Maybe it's as simple as you pay membership so you're able to pay a cover charge when you're actually there? Even an hourly rate would be fine when you're there, that's what every sports hall does, right? You play tennis or golf for 1 hour, you pay x, you play for 2 hours you pay 2x, etc.

 

[tyrone_buckley]

By the way, no such animal as a legal poker room. If they are taking a rake (which they are), they are illegal. I find it amusing they're still advertising this way. I know the dealers personally, they all take a rake. Case closed. Anyone going to bother them, nope.

 

[Taghkanic]

Anyone going to bother them, nope.

I guess my question remains, as someone who would love to run a “legal” room like that… Why is that the case? (Because law enforcement doesn’t think it is worth their time, or because they are connected?)

 

[doublebooyah85]

I guess my question remains, as someone who would love to run a “legal” room like that… Why is that the case? (Because law enforcement doesn’t think it is worth their time, or because they are connected?)

Not worth the time and money/cost to taxpayers for low level punishments.

We had a vegas night operation 10-15 years ago get busted. Prosecution spent millions of dollars over a year or so prosecuting and it was all for low level bs misdemeanors and felonies. Everyone was upset with them for the resources they wasted over a card game and in addition, they did truly donate hundred of thousands of dollars to charities a year!

 

[tyrone_buckley]

I guess my question remains, as someone who would love to run a “legal” room like that… Why is that the case? (Because law enforcement doesn’t think it is worth their time, or because they are connected?)

Yes,. However, places that serve alcohol, allow drugs, over even "over-rake" are simply just asking for trouble. The rake in so many of these games is just stupid.