If someone can’t afford to lose 20 bucks in a .1/.2 game, poker might not be for them. I’m not trying to be rude. I love my .25 /.5 game but with preflop pots of up to 180 bucks I’ve lost players I enjoy playing with, but it’s just not for them.
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Need help with top-up/rebuy rules for no-limit cash "friendly" game (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter d0g
- Start date
ES_Threeper
Pair
At my game it's $0.25/$0.25 blinds. Buyin for whatever you want and addon whenever you want for as much as you want. It's never been a problem. Most buyin for $20-$100. One guy always tops up to be able to cover the table. Same guy is the most action player and also usually the biggest loser.
riverchaseNICK
Waiting List
What night do you play? How do you pm on here?
B0mbp0t
Pair
I allow 400x BB for my games for initial buy-in. Can match big stack anytime. I find it advantageous to allow people to get as much money on the table as possible. That said, very happy to learn why I may be wrong.
its not about right or wrong, its about the atmosphere you want.
I don't want it to be all about money - I think an average is $400 swings, and I've seen as much as $1300 swings in my .25/.5 game. My max buy in is $80, I do that so IF I invite a better player to the game, they can't run over it.
I want my game to go a long time, we start at 4 PM and the longest session was until 6 AM, we typically go until 2 or 2:30. I don't rake the game, I try to make sure we have a very nice meal, and every now and again I have a featured drink. I think the most someone has won was $1300 (literally all in 3 way action at the end of the night), I find that to be crazy in a .25/.5 game (PLO). I also like deep stack play, and feel like PLO is a better / harder game, there is less bluffing and less of an edge on starting hands. Bluffs are also more meaningful
To me a winning player is someone who plays, I'm not trying to make a living, I do it for fun, there's enough money on the table with a cap'd buy in of 80 (for the first three hours, then it goes up to 100, because the group can't be bothered to make change).
If someone goes bust, I don't want it to be because of a single hand. I look for players that can / do bring about 3 buy ins, that should last all night; its enough to feel it, enough to get some good poker in and its enough to be a nice win. I've been in for 650 before, and I've also been in for only 20 bucks.
NLE with match stack, isn't a friendly game, its not enjoyable (to me), its typically about who can wait for a premium starting hand and capitalize on it. Until you get to nose bleed stakes NLE is boring to me, but I can't afford to play those stakes, or unwilling to =)
Last edited:
Mandos
3 of a Kind
A lot more on this here if memory serves: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...eling-the-playing-field-in-a-cash-game.76677/
Sent you a PM.
What is NLE?
Samuel
Straight
Ditto here.
I'd like to think our games are relatively friendly - we don't call clock, any angling is done obviously and for fun, and occasionally, some of us will tell another member of our group that we have the nuts and/or not to call (honestly), especially if that other member is having a rough night (e.g. down a few buy ins).
No Limit Enumerated recursion
So to understand it you must first understand recursion, let me explain, first you must understand recursion...
Sorry for my typo, NLH
Nothing is wrong with any of the above examples as long as everyone playing the game knows before hand, what the structure will be for reloads (if any).
I initiated a "friendly" NL holdem game almost 20 years ago, and I still play in it although someone else has taken over hosting duties.
By "friendly" I mean I never wanted anyone leaving their mortgage payment on the table: something fun, but also competitive. It's a week night game from 7 - midnight, a 5 hour session.
So we play a .25/.50 NL game. Initial buy in is $30 for everyone. Rebuys are $30 - $50 at the players discretion and are allowed if you get to less than $11 stack ($10 + change). This game has run all these years with no complaints and it's VERY rare for one person to lose $200 or more in a single game. Early on, I did have to modify the rebuy rule to reflect the "other side of the coin": too SMALL of a rebuy. When the game began you could rebuy for $0 - $50. That was until a player bought back in for $10 and went all in, $10 and all in, REPEATEDLY. So the $30 - $50 rebuy was established. The rule for a smaller rebuy is this: If you rebuy for less than $30 (all that's left in your wallet), it's your last rebuy. You bust after that, your session is over. So players know to bring money or borrow from another player.
Another player started his own variation of this game with one rebuy difference: you can top off to a stack of $50 at ANY time.
No complaints at that game either but it does increase money on the table driving the stakes a little higher than the above rules. Losses of more than $200 are more common at that game but it's not too bad for a "friendly" game.
Good Luck with your game and crew!
I initiated a "friendly" NL holdem game almost 20 years ago, and I still play in it although someone else has taken over hosting duties.
By "friendly" I mean I never wanted anyone leaving their mortgage payment on the table: something fun, but also competitive. It's a week night game from 7 - midnight, a 5 hour session.
So we play a .25/.50 NL game. Initial buy in is $30 for everyone. Rebuys are $30 - $50 at the players discretion and are allowed if you get to less than $11 stack ($10 + change). This game has run all these years with no complaints and it's VERY rare for one person to lose $200 or more in a single game. Early on, I did have to modify the rebuy rule to reflect the "other side of the coin": too SMALL of a rebuy. When the game began you could rebuy for $0 - $50. That was until a player bought back in for $10 and went all in, $10 and all in, REPEATEDLY. So the $30 - $50 rebuy was established. The rule for a smaller rebuy is this: If you rebuy for less than $30 (all that's left in your wallet), it's your last rebuy. You bust after that, your session is over. So players know to bring money or borrow from another player.
Another player started his own variation of this game with one rebuy difference: you can top off to a stack of $50 at ANY time.
No complaints at that game either but it does increase money on the table driving the stakes a little higher than the above rules. Losses of more than $200 are more common at that game but it's not too bad for a "friendly" game.
Good Luck with your game and crew!
B0mbp0t
Pair
I agree with your intent, and should probably clarify my game.
If we have 9 players at .25/.50, we'll normally have 4 players buy in for $50 (one of whom is me), 3 players buy in for $100, and 2 players buy in for $200. Those 2 are the same ones every time. And one of those will have massive swings, and pretty much always end the night up or down $800. He's the one that always wants to be able to match a stack, and is the only one to ever do it. And when he is up, he doesn't lock up the money, he'll keep putting it in. So with his swings, it feels advantageous to let his money flow freely.
Edited to add: though I do allow matching the big stack, I think it's only happened once where the "match" the above mentioned person paid was $500+. Every other time, it's essentially $300 or so.
Mr Winberg
Full House
.
So there are a few criticisms I would offer.
Something will change, and it could be directly correlated to when he has a bad night, I think this is high risk in that you may lose this player in time. Before that happens, you may lose a different player (b) if player a hits 2 or 3 times with stacks in. You've now created a situation where the player (b) feels its too much money to risk. Player b may also feel that instead of 2 buy-ins, they need to bring 4, and again doesn't feel the value of the risk is there.
These are observations I've had in previous other games. Player (A) could also be put at a further disadvantage if you change the game to 1/2, likely bringing his demise sooner.
Amarillo Slim said something about BBQ'n sheep or something ...
Aeternus
High Hand
Yeah rebuys are anytime and up to the chip leader's stack in our game. But you have to rebuy for at least half the starting buy in so players don't get me running for chips too often early.
louBdub
4 of a Kind
Top off whenever you want, its a cash game.
Up to table big stack, makes it a fair fight.
This isn’t a tournament, so why allow a stack to bully you?
Cash games are simple. Keep them simple.
Up to table big stack, makes it a fair fight.
This isn’t a tournament, so why allow a stack to bully you?
Cash games are simple. Keep them simple.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
You said it yourself, its cash, what do you mean bully you?
Eh, not a fair fight if a fish gets lucky in a big triple up and I can then addon to that limit to lean on everyone. We know most garage games aren't a fair fight lol.
jcooper911
Two Pair
Our 50c/50c game rules are simple - all buy-ins, rebuys and top ups are $100, with a $100 top up available if your stack is under $100.
It protects the big stacks some what (useful in a friendly game I want different people to win each time ideally), and allows more gamble!
It protects the big stacks some what (useful in a friendly game I want different people to win each time ideally), and allows more gamble!
pocketjacks
Waiting List
My occasional game is .25/.50, buy in up to $60, top off anytime, and you can rebuy up to $80 if you get felted. Straddles allowed, UTG only. Seems to work well, but my players have been playing a long time and they don't get too crazy. As mentioned, trying to strike a balance between making the money matter, but someone not losing part of their mortgage payment.
I run a 25c/50c game and it plays really big. We have a max buyin and rebuy of up to $200. Everyone is allowed to top up to $200 in between hands. Most of us are friends have decent jobs so losing a couple hundred a night isn’t a big deal. The game usually runs once a month. We have had players wanting to buyin for $1000 but most were not comfortable with that. They felt that the big stack can bully them and it wouldn’t make the game less enjoyable. Try gauging what people are willing to lose in a night and set your game parameters based on that.
Jimulacrum
Full House
If you have players who are shitting themselves at the thought of having to rebuy more than $20 at a time, you should take care to keep the game small—or recruit some deeper-pocketed players. I don't recommend match-the-big-stack (or half-the-big-stack or whatever) with a crowd like this. Your game will likely burn bright for a few games and then die. In fact, I don't recommend that at all, outside of limited cases.
If people want to be able to chase big stacks with a little more ammo, you could consider a tiered rebuy system. Max is $20 to start, and as soon as a player has $100, max becomes $40 (or whatever particular configuration works for you). It should make more room for the players who want to come in for more money, without being too big for the folks who just want a cheap night of cards.
As to big stacks bullying people, it's probably less of a stack-size issue and more of a skill-differential issue. Having a huge stack against a bunch of smaller stacks doesn't convey any real advantage. If I have $150 and everyone else has $10, then I have $10. The psychology might be a little different; I may feel a little freer to risk $10 than someone who only has $10 total, and that player may feel like he stands to lose more than I do because it's his whole stack. But that psychological tint does not change the mathematics of the situation. I'm still risking $10 against your $10, and the winner gains $10. If having $150 makes me more reckless, then it's actually a disadvantage.
And if the issue is that your players are sitting around nursing $10 all night because they're scared money, that's a whole other discussion.
If people want to be able to chase big stacks with a little more ammo, you could consider a tiered rebuy system. Max is $20 to start, and as soon as a player has $100, max becomes $40 (or whatever particular configuration works for you). It should make more room for the players who want to come in for more money, without being too big for the folks who just want a cheap night of cards.
As to big stacks bullying people, it's probably less of a stack-size issue and more of a skill-differential issue. Having a huge stack against a bunch of smaller stacks doesn't convey any real advantage. If I have $150 and everyone else has $10, then I have $10. The psychology might be a little different; I may feel a little freer to risk $10 than someone who only has $10 total, and that player may feel like he stands to lose more than I do because it's his whole stack. But that psychological tint does not change the mathematics of the situation. I'm still risking $10 against your $10, and the winner gains $10. If having $150 makes me more reckless, then it's actually a disadvantage.
And if the issue is that your players are sitting around nursing $10 all night because they're scared money, that's a whole other discussion.
carza
Sitting Out
Jimulacrum
Full House
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Here I was, typing it out word by word like an idiot! Great.
Good thread here with lots of info and insight. I'm hosting more often and starting to feel the need to write up some house rules. Another game I play in has the "up to half the big stack" rule, but that probably isn't needed with my crowd as most of them play tighter and smaller than this other group. Last time I hosted there were no rebuys the entire night, so I may be wasting my time, but I think as this group starts playing more regular, that we might see things loosen up a bit. Regardless, it's a good idea to have rules written down, just in case the situation arises or a new player joins who is used to bigger games.
So here's what I'm thinking.
Stakes: $0.25 / $0.50 NLHE
Initial Buy-in range: $40-60
Rebuys / Addons: Can be done anytime between hands in increments of $10, up to a maximum stack of $80.
I think this rebuy rule is enough that it allows anyone who is stuck the opportunity to get it back, while maintaining the "fun poker night with buddies" atmosphere.
So here's what I'm thinking.
Stakes: $0.25 / $0.50 NLHE
Initial Buy-in range: $40-60
Rebuys / Addons: Can be done anytime between hands in increments of $10, up to a maximum stack of $80.
I think this rebuy rule is enough that it allows anyone who is stuck the opportunity to get it back, while maintaining the "fun poker night with buddies" atmosphere.
ngmcs8203
Flush
I added the ‘half the largest stack’ option because I was simply afraid that if someone comes in and stacks an opponent or 2, capping the add-on to something like 100BB puts those who are stuck at a bit of a ‘mental’ disadvantage. Even if they are plenty deep enough to get cash back from the big stack.
I don't disagree with your logic. But I just don't think that will be an issue in my games. If it becomes one, then the rule can be changed.
Also, to be clear, if there are not a lot of rebuys, then my $80 cap could very possibly be more than half the big stack most of the time.
ngmcs8203
Flush
True. I have a 100BB cap and unless someone goes over 200BB the half big stack doesn’t even matter. I will be surprised if my group plays any hands with a 3bet let alone ones where stacks get in.
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