Need recommendation - chips for a home cash game (4 Viewers)

[dickzapper]

Loved my milano set for a few weeks as a cash set but after spending time here I quickly got the urge to upgrade and did, and milanos have been demoted to a tournament/travel set. I still like them a lot, but if you hang out on this board your mindset may change quickly!

There are plenty vendors and eBay sales that let you customize a milano set breakdown, i got my first set from pokerchipmania. I also reccomend looking into Nile Club for your price range if you like ceramics at all.

to buy a new set, I should have that in mind and buy once/buy right (

Well if you continue to hang out on this board, which i highly recommend, by that logic just spend 2-3k on a paulson set and you'll be good to go. This may sound crazy right now, but I guarentee you'll be thinking about this comment in a couple months or weeks!

 

[NicholasAK]

$50 for a case that wont explode is a bargain.

Planning to use low denom cash for a tourney set seems very flawed...using tourney set for low denom cash set is much more ideal.
Here's my breakdown, i wanted to fill a 500+25 chip case...5 trays with 4 slots of 25 chips in each. I wanted to be able to do 15 5k starting stacks using exactly 25 chips plus the ability to do an extra 5k for special 10k tourneys...so here's the breakdown:

 

[MaxB]

I'd put a WTB unicorn chips by GOCC here (I know people are selling them), then have Gear make some custom labels for you. I made a small 100 chip travel set and I really like the feel of them. Some casinos use the unicorn chips as fracs, so they are "authentic".

these are the colors they come in: http://www.gameoncc.com/Chips/UnicornSeries.aspx

 

[mummel]

Why cant I use actual denoms to reflect the value of the chip in tourneys?

For my cash games, I calculated that I would need $20 in chips for 12 people (8 players starting + 4 buy-ins = 12), so I am 75% of the way there (12/16 = 75%) to having enough chips for a fixed 16 player tournament with a $20 buy-in.

Why would I just not use the same chips? I think I calculated I would need more $5 chips for the end game in the tourney (after you exchange all the 25c chips and clear them out), but that was the only real adjustment.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Yeah I called them but it's 19c extra for the labels per chip, and you would need to factor in labor to do it yourself. Kind of a pain. Not worth it IMO. I'll only have 3 chips on my table and the pink and red may be a little bland. A blue in there would be great

That sounds like the custom label price. I thought the stock labels were really cheap. @Apache is that right?

 

[NicholasAK]

Why would I just not use the same chips?

Two reasons:
First; the chip progression/blind structure would be very steep at a max of 80bb starting stack
Second; it's harder for ($20) beginner/drunk players to understand the difference between cash and tourney if the chips they use are the exact same whether its tourney or cash night. You'll run into cash playes asking when the blinds move up and people hating the very steep blind structure.

 

[mummel]

That sounds like the custom label price. I thought the stock labels were really cheap. @Apache is that right?

Yes. Not customer labels. The blanks are 35c vs 36c for the stock, but the labels are 10c each and you need 2 for each blank, so net +19c per chip + labor, which really sucks. Com'on Apache! Please make me some blues hahaha

 

[MillyS]

That sounds like the custom label price. I thought the stock labels were really cheap. @Apache is that right?

Yup I thought so too, I think I paid 5c a label, so 10c per chip

Yes. Not customer labels. The blanks are 35c vs 36c for the stock, but the labels are 10c each and you need 2 for each blank, so net +19c per chip + labor, which really sucks. Com'on Apache! Please make me some blues hahaha

I think u might have misunderstood, Iam sure its 10c per chip

 

[mummel]

Two reasons:
First; the chip progression/blind structure would be very steep at a max of 80bb starting stack
Second; it's harder for ($20) beginner/drunk players to understand the difference between cash and tourney if the chips they use are the exact same whether its tourney or cash night. You'll run into cash playes asking when the blinds move up and people hating the very steep blind structure.

1) If I have 16 players, and everyone buys-in for $20, and the tourney starts off at 25c/$50c (so a starting stack of 40 BBs), would moving the blinds to 50c/$1, then $1/$2, then $2/$4, then $5/$10 be too steep?
2) I'll use something like Travis Poker Timer to show the blinds, but the question of a steep blind structure still exists.

Is that blind structure too aggressive (for home games and cash games)? Cause thats what we've been using for home games, but we normally go from 50c/$1 to $1/$2 after like 3 hours to get the game moving. Our cash games havent had a formal blind increase, we kind of just do it whenever it feels like the game is slowing down.

Are you saying for tourneys they doubling is too aggressive?

I think u might have misunderstood, Iam sure its 10c per chip

They guy I spoke to said 10c per label, and you need 2!

 

[atomiktoaster]

1) If I have 16 players, and everyone buys-in for $20, and the tourney starts off at 25c/$50c (so a starting stack of 40 BBs), would moving the blinds to 50c/$1, then $1/$2, then $2/$4, then $5/$10 be too steep?
2) I'll use something like Travis Poker Timer to show the blinds, but the question of a steep blind structure still exists.

Is that blind structure too aggressive (for home games and cash games)? Cause thats what we've been using for home games, but we normally go from 50c/$1 to $1/$2 after like 3 hours to get the game moving. Our cash games havent had a formal blind increase, we kind of just do it whenever it feels like the game is slowing down.

Are you saying for tourneys they doubling is too aggressive?

Yes, doubling is super steep. You probably want to shoot for doubling every 2-3 levels. You'll only have 32 BB on the table once it hits $5/$10, which will probably end the tournament within a few hands. Even at 25c/50c, you're starting people off with only 40 BB, which is really short stacked. You want to shoot for 200 BB at lvl 1 with no rebuys to allow reasonable play and go up slowly from there.

 

[Blaster]

1) If I have 16 players, and everyone buys-in for $20, and the tourney starts off at 25c/$50c (so a starting stack of 40 BBs), would moving the blinds to 50c/$1, then $1/$2, then $2/$4, then $5/$10 be too steep?

Holy cow, doubling the blinds is horrible steep structure, even if you tripled or quadrupled the starting stack!!!!
Your starting stack is worth only 5 BB's at the end of the 2nd level!

 

[NicholasAK]

Yes, doubling is super steep. You probably want to shoot for doubling every 2-3 levels. You'll only have 32 BB on the table once it hits $5/$10, which will probably end the tournament within a few hands. Even at 25c/50c, you're starting people off with only 40 BB, which is really short stacked. You want to shoot for 200 BB at lvl 1 with no rebuys to allow reasonable play and go up slowly from there.

100% agree, this is why a tourney can sub for cash but not vice versa...look at the spreadsheet i set up above

 

[atomiktoaster]

They guy I spoke to said 10c per label, and you need 2!

They started at 5-6 cents each (post #260): http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/coming-soon.5517/page-9#post-65484

Maybe @Apache had to up the price to deal with the labor of cutting the labels out of sheets that had every denom on them?

 

[NicholasAK]

...Our cash games havent had a formal blind increase, we kind of just do it whenever it feels like the game is slowing down.

Cash games should never have a blind increase.

 

[atomiktoaster]

100% agree, this is why a tourney can sub for cash but not vice versa...look at the spreadsheet i set up above

Eh, most people here would have a very different breakdown for cash, biased heavily toward a single workhorse denom. You could play 25c/50c with a T10k set, but you'd end up feeling short of T100s and making change pretty often.

 

[NicholasAK]

Eh, most people here would have a very different breakdown for cash, biased heavily toward a single workhorse denom. You could play 25c/50c with a T10k set, but you'd end up feeling short of T100s and making change pretty often.

Sorry, talking to op...i plan to not use many chips during cash play. Rarely have over $800 on the table...

 

[MillyS]

They started at 5-6 cents each (post #260): http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/coming-soon.5517/page-9#post-65484

Maybe @Apache had to up the price to deal with the labor of cutting the labels out of sheets that had every denom on them?

Yeah possibly

 

[atomiktoaster]

Sorry, talking to op...i plan to not use many chips during cash play. Rarely have over $800 on the table...

You probably want at least $300 of that in $1s though, to keep it easier to compare stack sizes visually. The issue is a 10 seat tournament set will only need 2 racks of T100. A 2 table tournament set wouldn't be terrible to service a single cash table, but it's going to be expensive in terms of number of chips.

 

[NicholasAK]

You probably want at least $300 of that in $1s though, to keep it easier to compare stack sizes visually. The issue is a 10 seat tournament set will only need 2 racks of T100. A 2 table tournament set wouldn't be terrible to service a single cash table, but it's going to be expensive in terms of number of chips.

The chipset was designed for my ocd purposes currently in fedex usually only 4-6 people playing cash

 

[mummel]

I'll post my spreadsheet figures tonight, but in short:

1) I need this chip set to host a 8 player cash game, with a $20 buy-in, where ~2-4 people normally re-buy (so say a pot size of $160 + $80 = $240)
2) I would like to, down the road, use the same set to host a 16 player tournament (an aspiration of mine), where the buy in will also probably be $20 (pot size = $320)

I ran through some scenarios on a spreadsheet and came up with total chips required at different points in the game. I will post the figures tonight (cant recall off hand).

I only needed 3 chips though. 25c, $1 and $5 (I read that the 50c chips are a waste). It would start off as a 25c/50c game (so a starting stack of 40 BBs), then progressing to 50c/$1, then probably to $1/$2 in our cash games where the last 2-3 players will cash out. From what I calculated, 25c, $1 and $5 chips will get me through this. This is my priority.

Then for the once a year 16 player tournament, I calculated I would need more $5 red chips for the end game (so I will probably just buy them now to avoid coloration differences down the road). More $5 chips will also come in handy should we ever move to a $40 buy-in, 8 person game. And I suppose if we ever decide to do a $40 buy-in 16 player tournament, then I could pickup some $25 greens to make this work.

So this is kind-of, sort-of my plan. At the moment, we just have a $20 buy-in, everyone gets 40 chips, so each chip is worth 50c. We start off with 50c/$1 blinds (so only 20 BBs at the start). I dont know much different so I'm not sure what a game looks like with 40 BBs vs 20BBs starting, but so far our games have worked.

It's not serious. People are there to have fun. Our games are uber slow. People are so busy talking sht. By the end of the evening, most people as so lit they forget about the pot. It must sound ridiculous to some of the pros on this site but our games are more about being social than poker hahahahaha.

I think adding denominations to the game will illustrate more to people what they are betting, which will improve the game and make it more exciting. I personally would appreciate a nicer quality set. And the 16 player tournament would be so much fun if I could get it organized so if I'm going to buy a new set, I should have that in mind and buy once/buy right (no buyer's remorse, this stuff is expensive!).

Ok, so there are probably formulas or algos that can save a ton of time vs working these numbers out on a spreadsheet, but I did run some simulations and this is what I got.

8 player game with $20 buy-in:

1) 8 players = $20 buy in = (20 X 25c) + (10 X $1) + (1 X $5) = total of 160 X 25c + 80 X $1 chips + 8 X $5 chips needed
2) Assume another 4 re-buys = 80 X 25c + 40 X $1 chips needed + 4 X $5 chips needed
3) So a total of 240 X 25c and 120 X $1 + 12 X $5 need to be on the table for 8 players after 4 re-buys (max 25c chip count is 240)
4) Assume players get narrowed to 6, blinds are upped to $1/$2, and we clear out the 25c chips out in exchange for $1 chips = 30 X $1 + 2 X $5 chips needed for each person
5) So a total of 180 X $1 + 12 X $5 chips need to be on the table for 6 players after 4 re-buys (max $1 chip count is 180)
6) Assume players get narrowed to 4, and we exchange 15 X $1 chips for 3 X $5 chips for each person = 30 X $1 + 6 X $5 chips needed for each person
7) So a total of 120 X $1 + 24 X $5 chips need to be on the table for 4 players after 4 re-buys
6) Assume players get narrowed to 2, and we exchange 60 X $1 chips for 12 X $5 chips for each person = 30 X $1 + 18 X $5 chips needed for each person
7) So a total of 60 X $1 + 36 X $5 chips need to be on the table for 2 players after 4 re-buys (max $5 chip count is 36)

So in summary, I should buy:

250 X 25c
200 X $1
50 X $5

Guys, does this math compute. Tell me there is smarter way to simulate/calculate the chip count!!

 

[BGinGA]

the tourney starts off at 25c/$50c (so a starting stack of 40 BBs), would moving the blinds to 50c/$1, then $1/$2, then $2/$4, then $5/$10 be too steep?

As others have already noted, this is a pretty horrible tournament structure. It's a shove-fest almost from the start, with no room to play meaningful poker or utilize strategy. Everyone is short-stacked after the first level, and will hardly ever get past the third level.

Regarding using the same chips for both cash and tourney, I'd advise against it. Too easy for a $5 tournament chip (which has zero cash value) to get pocketed and show up during your 25c/50c cash game (where it's worth 10BB or the full $5). You'll figure out why it's a bad idea, the first time your bank comes up short of cash for the amount of chips on the table..

 

[BGinGA]

So in summary, I should buy:

250 X 25c
200 X $1
50 X $5

Guys, does this math compute.

You don't need that many quarters for 8 players -- 100 is plenty. Go with this:

100 x 25c
200 x $1
180 x $5
20 x $25

 

[atomiktoaster]

Ok, so there are probably formulas or algos that can save a ton of time vs working these numbers out on a spreadsheet, but I did run some simulations and this is what I got.

8 player game with $20 buy-in:

1) 8 players = $20 buy in = (20 X 25c) + (10 X $1) + (1 X $5) = total of 160 X 25c + 80 X $1 chips + 8 X $5 chips needed
2) Assume another 4 re-buys = 80 X 25c + 40 X $1 chips needed + 4 X $5 chips needed
3) So a total of 240 X 25c and 120 X $1 + 12 X $5 need to be on the table for 8 players after 4 re-buys (max 25c chip count is 240)
4) Assume players get narrowed to 6, blinds are upped to $1/$2, and we clear out the 25c chips out in exchange for $1 chips = 30 X $1 + 2 X $5 chips needed for each person
5) So a total of 180 X $1 + 12 X $5 chips need to be on the table for 6 players after 4 re-buys (max $1 chip count is 180)
6) Assume players get narrowed to 4, and we exchange 15 X $1 chips for 3 X $5 chips for each person = 30 X $1 + 6 X $5 chips needed for each person
7) So a total of 120 X $1 + 24 X $5 chips need to be on the table for 4 players after 4 re-buys
6) Assume players get narrowed to 2, and we exchange 60 X $1 chips for 12 X $5 chips for each person = 30 X $1 + 18 X $5 chips needed for each person
7) So a total of 60 X $1 + 36 X $5 chips need to be on the table for 2 players after 4 re-buys (max $5 chip count is 36)

So in summary, I should buy:

250 X 25c
200 X $1
50 X $5

Guys, does this math compute. Tell me there is smarter way to simulate/calculate the chip count!!

No reason to include more quarters in the rebuy stacks, for either cash or tourney. You want more $1s than any other denom, and 3x your max expected bank.

 

[Chicken Rob]

I don't know how your game plays, but 20 .25 chips is more than you need. 10/player is probably enough at those stakes. I'd get 100 quarters.

200 1s
180 5s.
20 25s

Once all the small chips are on the table, rebuys can be all in 5s. And then when you're out of 5s crack out the 25s. This should be a big enough bank for your game (it sounds like) with a little headroom for those nights when it gets out of control. Total bank = $1625.

 

[Chicken Rob]

You don't need that many quarters for 8 players -- 100 is plenty. Go with this:

100 x 25c
200 x $1
180 x $5
20 x $25

We were typing at the same time and independently came up with the same chip count. This must be the one.

 

[Forty4]

They started at 5-6 cents each (post #260): http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/coming-soon.5517/page-9#post-65484

Maybe @Apache had to up the price to deal with the labor of cutting the labels out of sheets that had every denom on them?

I know I called about a month ago to get some NCV labels and he said he was out.

 

[mummel]

Guys Im a noob so forgive me, but isnt that way too little on the quarters? Even if the ~4 re-buys are $1 chips only, with the game having 25c/50c blinds to start, for at least 1 maybe 2 hours, dont we need a lot of quarters on the table to cover the SBs & BBs?

If everyone calls the BB, then thats 16 on the table. Someone raises 50c, thats another 16 gone. 3-4 rounds, different winners, wont a few people at the table run out of quarters if there are only 100 to start with?

 

[atomiktoaster]

Guys Im a noob so forgive me, but isnt that way too little on the quarters? Even if the ~4 re-buys are $1 chips only, with the game having 25c/50c blinds to start, for at least 1 maybe 2 hours, dont we need a lot of quarters on the table to cover the SBs & BBs?

If everyone calls the BB, then thats 16 on the table. Someone raises 50c, thats another 16 gone. 3-4 rounds, different winners, wont a few people at the table run out of quarters if there are only 100 to start with?

If there's already a bunch of quarters in the pot, and everybody is that limpy (which is terrible poker, btw), then you just call by throwing in a $1 and taking out two quarters. You want the pot to be mostly in the workhorse denom anyway, otherwise it's harder to eyeball the size when you're picking out an amount to raise.

 

[MaxB]

If everyone calls the BB, then thats 16 on the table. Someone raises 50c

Nope, they take back their two quarters and throw in a $1 chip

 

[mummel]

Nope, they take back their two quarters and throw in a $1 chip

If this is really the case them I'll be a happy man because I will need to purchase less chips.

How did you come up with 180 X $5 ($900 pot vs $240 max at my $20 buy in). That seems HUGE. Why do I need so many 5s? TY.

If there's already a bunch of quarters in the pot, and everybody is that limpy (which is terrible poker, btw), then you just call by throwing in a $1 and taking out two quarters. You want the pot to be mostly in the workhorse denom anyway, otherwise it's harder to eyeball the size when you're picking out an amount to raise.

Also someone mentioned not doubling the blinds on level 2, so I would need to go from 25c/50c to 50c/75c right?, which would call for 3 quarters to call the blinds no (so 24 quarters on the table if everyone calls)?

Seems like tossing in a $1 and pulling 25c of someone else's stack before everyone has moved their chips into the middle is tedious no, or am I missing something? Sorry for the dumb questions.