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Official PCF Whisk(e)y Thread (87 Viewers)
- Thread starter jbutler
- Start date
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
1. Probably not.
2. Definitely not.
I like the 15 and 20 but I think there’s better whiskey out there to spend your time/money on. Unless you can manage to win a lottery or something like that to purchase a bottle at/near retail pricing.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
Definitely not worth it. But then again I can’t think of any bourbon worth more than $200
1. Is it worth the search? No unless you have a fabulous connection with a store owner.
2. Is it worth the $$$$? Definitely no if you're talking secondary prices. Definitely YES if you buy at suggested retail. Specially the 15 and 20yo.
Having said that, we chippers are not necessarily known for our value conscious decisions, LOL!!!
In all seriousness, they really are great bourbons although definitely not best in class imo. I can think of many other bottles of bourbons I rather have, although some of them are also expensive.
Basically what @RocAFella1 said.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
I sold the Lot B for $500. I spent that on Jefferson Vrsr, Little Book chap 2, Blantons, 2 bottles of Eagle Rare, 2 ribeye steaks, Ashton VsG, and Padron 20th anniversary.
I couldn’t justify keeping it when it can’t even make the cut to become pvw15.
@Big Jilm : Let me elaborate a little more regarding Pappys and value in whiskey (whisky) in general:
First, palate is a very personal thing. The nectar of gods for someone might be just meh for others. That is specially true the closer one is to a beginner. The more experienced the drinker, the more homogeneous the taste is although it never converges completely. There's always a personal component.
Second, value is also personal. What I mean by that is each of us has a different utility curve for our dollars. Some are willing to pay a lot for a tiny increase in quality/pleasure, some are not willing to pay anything at all even for a larger increase in quality/pleasure. Not much different than chips if one thinks about it.
Now, Pappys are great bourbons. Comparatively for me, as I said, they seat behind many other bottles even not taking into account secondary prices. When I take into account my utility curve, then they really fall way behind. And that comes from someone who is not afraid of dropping some coin on Bourbons and Single Malts.
See, I included Single Malts in the above paragraph because for me, they get into the competition for my dollars as well, which clearly impact my perceived value of those bottles.
So are there Bourbons that I like better than others? Yes, absolutely! There's even Bourbons that would blow my socks off. Some I am willing to pay for, some I might not. One is paying not only for immediate palate but also for the experience, which is hard to gage.
That's why I never fully understood (again, just me) the argument that with the price of X one could buy 10 bottles of Y. One does not wanna drink Y forever and only! That's not that much different than a fancy restaurant (other than the fact you gotta eat every day). For the price, you have have multiple more meals at home, but sometimes, one wants a different experience. The opposite is true also: I imagine it would suck to eat every night at the same fancy restaurant. What about a nice burger or taco or veal parm? LOL!!
So for Pappys, would I pay what they go for? No, I would not. At least not where I seat as far as my scarce disposable income is concern. Would I pay what William Larue Weller goes for? Much more likely! LOL!
Had some time to write. Apologies if my vitriol is too long. Again, just my personal view that I'm sure is not shared by many.
First, palate is a very personal thing. The nectar of gods for someone might be just meh for others. That is specially true the closer one is to a beginner. The more experienced the drinker, the more homogeneous the taste is although it never converges completely. There's always a personal component.
Second, value is also personal. What I mean by that is each of us has a different utility curve for our dollars. Some are willing to pay a lot for a tiny increase in quality/pleasure, some are not willing to pay anything at all even for a larger increase in quality/pleasure. Not much different than chips if one thinks about it.
Now, Pappys are great bourbons. Comparatively for me, as I said, they seat behind many other bottles even not taking into account secondary prices. When I take into account my utility curve, then they really fall way behind. And that comes from someone who is not afraid of dropping some coin on Bourbons and Single Malts.
See, I included Single Malts in the above paragraph because for me, they get into the competition for my dollars as well, which clearly impact my perceived value of those bottles.
So are there Bourbons that I like better than others? Yes, absolutely! There's even Bourbons that would blow my socks off. Some I am willing to pay for, some I might not. One is paying not only for immediate palate but also for the experience, which is hard to gage.
That's why I never fully understood (again, just me) the argument that with the price of X one could buy 10 bottles of Y. One does not wanna drink Y forever and only! That's not that much different than a fancy restaurant (other than the fact you gotta eat every day). For the price, you have have multiple more meals at home, but sometimes, one wants a different experience. The opposite is true also: I imagine it would suck to eat every night at the same fancy restaurant. What about a nice burger or taco or veal parm? LOL!!
So for Pappys, would I pay what they go for? No, I would not. At least not where I seat as far as my scarce disposable income is concern. Would I pay what William Larue Weller goes for? Much more likely! LOL!
Had some time to write. Apologies if my vitriol is too long. Again, just my personal view that I'm sure is not shared by many.
Last edited:
joeyshin
Straight Flush
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absolutely agree!..
I would absolutely buy Pappys at MSRP or maybe even 2x markup, but not the prices they go for. the curve dives sharply of quality vs value. You make a great point is that utility is large variable. While I wouldnt drink "Y" only and forever, Eagle Rare is a great cheap "Y" that i would not mind 10 bottles on my shelf. just sayin hahha
I would pay close to secondary for WLW or a lot of other whiskys like Yama18.
gopherblue
Straight Flush
The Van Winkle pricing is insane relative to quality except at (or very near) MSRP. Basically, what @ChaosRock said. However, those two Japanese whiskies...ooh la la. I have both and love them.
But, huge caveat: this assumes purchase at or near MSRP...again, the secondary pricing on those is waaaay out of whack with the quality. Are they awesome? Absolutely. But current pricing is not a value to me. Of course, that is an overall reflection on scarcity, like certain single malts, since availability has dried up. Last Hibiki 17 I saw for sale at a shop was north of $400. I paid $60 at NRT, but I don’t think it is being produced any more (at least at the moment).
And the crazy thing about the Taketsuru is it is a 21 year old malt, with a plastic cap, which was priced at like $60. The packaging belies the goodness within.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
lots of Japanese Whiskys came with screw caps because they actually seal better and less evaporation...but some have started to come with corks since its what people want.
I can understand the increase in some whiskys due to scarcity, but theres not a shortage of PVW..or a high demand. Japanese whiskys are running dry because they didnt plan 12/17/18 years ago what the market would be like for them. We just wait until new casks mature and then we'll be back to japanese prices.
Increased prices and demands are causing a lot of distilleries to cash in on the seller's market. Thats why we've been seeing all kinds of expressions from distilleries that havent changed in 100 years...especially in Scotch market. We can't complain about the prices because we are reason they get inflated...we're all taters..just to different degrees
Totally (almost totally, LOL!) agree, man!
Although I think the supply of Pappy has stayed relatively the same, I think the demand has definitely spiked. Same for Japanese, btw, so imo it's not only a supply issue there. I agree with all your other statements though!
I'm a fan of Japanese whiskies. My only complain (other than current prices) is that because of lack of rules, we never know what we are getting. We might be buying a bottle of Japanese that in fact is mostly a non age stated Ben Nevis, or Tomatin. I think that's gonna be the case until local distilling catches up though. Not much can be done at this point I think.
gopherblue
Straight Flush
Very good points regarding the Japanese whiskies. You're right, of course, about the plastic screw caps, but I'm so used to corks that when I first got it, I was like, WTF? But this is a great example of not judging a book by its cover.
Now, the Hibiki 17? That is a cover I'd like to judge a book by, any day of the week! It is the most beautiful packaging and presentation I've ever seen in a spirit at any price point below the $500-and-up super-premium/super-rare limited bottlings that distilleries have been putting out recently. Just a gorgeous bottle. And the whisky itself is sensational.
Yes, it is! So is the 21! I'm a fan.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
Very good points regarding the Japanese whiskies. You're right, of course, about the plastic screw caps, but I'm so used to corks that when I first got it, I was like, WTF? But this is a great example of not judging a book by its cover.
Now, the Hibiki 17? That is a cover I'd like to judge a book by, any day of the week! It is the most beautiful packaging and presentation I've ever seen in a spirit at any price point below the $500-and-up super-premium/super-rare limited bottlings that distilleries have been putting out recently. Just a gorgeous bottle. And the whisky itself is sensational.
That hibiki bottle actually got me into japanese whiskys. Its also my infinity bottle. I was thinking of making a lamp out of one..
joeyshin
Straight Flush
Are people down to trade samples? I bought medicine botttles and give out samples to friends to get them into whisky
joeyshin
Straight Flush
I do that as well! LOL!! And also for some people who are over and can't actually drink the whisky at that time.
I have a LOT of samples I still need to go through, man. Like a LOT!
joeyshin
Straight Flush
i've actually run out of bottles at the moment...and good bourbon. but I can buy more bottles and trade samples. I usually make a Buffalo Trace distillery flight with
Buffalo Trace
Eagle Rare
Weller SR
Weller 107
Blantons
Blantons Gold
Elmer T Lee
Each bottle is about 2oz
Buffalo Trace
Eagle Rare
Weller SR
Weller 107
Blantons
Blantons Gold
Elmer T Lee
Each bottle is about 2oz
joeyshin
Straight Flush
Share the wealth
detroitdad
Royal Flush
One of my absolute favorites!
I don't have any bottles worthy of trading samples for. Other than my Lagavulin 16. The only way that leaves the bottle is into my glass. Hmmm, might be a good way to kick off my long weekend. Thanks for the 73rd time @gopherblue I tell everyone that I can what you did lol
gopherblue
Straight Flush
My pleasure. Laga keeps the covid away.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
Wow. Blantons and weller sr are hard to find. Around here people are waiting outside the door and they only get a few bottles at a time. Nice
Klobberer
Full House
Yes, yes and yes!
detroitdad
Royal Flush
enough of the mixed drinks.
Klobberer
Full House
Maker's!
Blanton's isn't too tough to find in Oregon, in my experience. Weller Sr and 107 on the other hand I haven't looked for much but I think they are a little tougher.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
Unfortunately I don't think Oregon allows shipping of spirits. You have to get a permit to even ship malt beverages and that's within state lines. Booze is all tightly state controlled here.
Not exactly sure where @Big Jilm lives, but if he's got access to a liquor store that's less traveled (suburb or more rural area) in Oregon he's got a good shot at some of the "rarer" and more coveted whiskeys. The nice thing about liquor being state controlled is that the OLCC (Oregon Liquor Control Commission) owns and fronts all of the inventory for liquor stores.
joeyshin
Straight Flush
It’s the same here in VA which is why I can’t order. I’ve gotten shipments and have shipped myself. I just tell them it’s collectible glassware
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