ngmcs8203
Flush
Also for those asking if posts could be tagged: yes. They already are. The tourney/cash game or wanted/for sale/auction/not mine tags are used every day.
Poll: the new generation of ceramics should have their own section on PCF (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter PocketAces
- Start date
Chawks45
Flush
Admit it - you either recently stayed at a Holiday Inn Express or played the role of an attorney on TV.
It's been happening here for years.
ekricket
Royal Flush
Haha you must be new. That’s exactly how it works.
China's first attempt at this^ was the china clay chip produced on the spirit mold by Eastony Industries and imported/sold by DaVinci Imports. (Not surprisingly, the spirit mold image was a reverse copy of the U.S.Sprint company logo at the time. Old habits die hard.)
But lots of people bought 'em at ~35c per chip. And they were a lot closer in terms of feel to compression-molded chips than today's plasticized version of china clays, but did not have the long-term durability of molded ceramic chips -- which can be produced for about the same cost (< 10c per chip in bulk).
The compression molding process does not lend itself to mass production and the resulting cost savings. It's quite unlikely they would consider it a viable venture from a capital investment perspective.
FYP.
ngmcs8203
Flush
Maybe for some. There’s always going to be someone willing to buy a luxury item if there isn’t a cheaper alternative but I’d guess a lot more who would buy from Tina would go to Apache or sunfly before dropping 10x more on a CPC set.
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What did you change?
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Tina chips ~50¢
CPC Circle Square Level 11 $2.70.
You'd be hard pressed to reach 10x a Tina chip (though I have done it for the top-end chip in my set).
Agreed that is is more expensive to get CPC, but the steps many take are just Dice chips until a game gets going then CPC for full customs. If you even remotely care about security, CPC or a reputable ceramic vendor (Sunfly) are the only way to go.
100%. I intended to say that many of the Tina scrown purchases are knock-offs of historic scrown designs that you can’t replicate exactly on CPC chips due to color/spot limitations. Because they can’t be made on CPC, I suspect some of those orders wouldn’t have happened if Tina hadn’t made the scrown mold- so she’s effectively expanding the pie.
CPC’s clay chips are in a league of their own. I’m not sure Tina is pulling customers away from CPC, well, maybe @chipinla and his running stream of new sets, but that’s probably better for his wallet. I think Tina’s expanded the market (me, for example) and taken business from BR PRO. Not sure how much Sun Fly has been impacted as I don’t recall a lot of business ongoing their way in the last few years. Pre-Tina, there was some Sun Fly discussion, and I thought about it, but once I had samples in hand, I realized it wasn’t for me.
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Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
It's like when a fan of a series (Star Trek) makes a film (Prelude to Axanar). It's based on the same mold, but the knock-off is something that the legal owner of the mold (Paramount) was something they couldn't/wouldn't make. Because they can’t be made by Paramount, I suspect the films wouldn’t have happened if the fans hadn’t made the movie - so they are expanding the pie.
However, the court sided with Paramount. Movie production became extremely limited (15 minute films, and no more than 2), and the fans were prohibited from making money.
If Tina was prohibited from making a profit, the runs were limited, and the number of stolen molds were limited to 2 - none of this would be a conversation.
Personally, I plan on ordering some Greek Key Tina molds, but I would be just as happy if they were no-mold or another (non-lame) mold. Just because I don't like the game, doesn't mean I won't play. I'm looking at you, Derailment.
ngmcs8203
Flush
Thanks for this. Watching it now. One of the dudes from The Rock is in it too!
This isn't meant as a direct question to you BBJ but to the forum as a whole:
Isn't the described situation above just the free market at work? People love to hate on china all-day-everyday but they are good at what they do. IMO it should be the responsibility of the casinos and other chip manufacturers to protect their own IP, not the responsibility of the consumer.
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You're free to have that perspective. It's the responsibility of everybody to protect their own wallet, but if you saw a pickpocket working a crowd, wouldn't you speak up?
Hey, don't be dissin' on my Lame mold chips...
I'm sorry if I am being thick, I am new to this world, but who exactly is being "pickpocketed" in this analogy? BR pro? sunfly? CPC? casinos? For myriad reasons I fail to appreciate your analogy. If anything couldn't it be argued that BR/Sunfly are the pickpockets of the consumers here as it has been demonstrated (by Tina et al.) that their production process can be very closely replicated for an order of magnitude cheaper cost than they are charging?
I'm sure the casino industry/lobby has enough money to "speak up" for themselves if they feel it is a real issue.
I agree that it would be a bad thing for small niche businesses to dry up due to overseas competition, but again, isn't that the free market (that you laude in your signature line) just doing its job?
Hypothetically, if it could be demonstrated that compression molded clay chips of a similar quality to CPC etc. can be made and sold for << than the $2-5/chip range wouldn't that just highlight price gouging? Economy of scale makes a huge difference and im sure Paulson and others are cutting the casinos a huge deal for their large orders... Chinese manufacturers might actually have stiff competition to begin with on that large scale.
I've seen it time and time again in many niche hobbies: the people who believe China=bad will buy expensive USA products and the other people will buy from china if they see something they like. There will always be a market for so called "patriotic consumers" so i think that this is all just a non-issue to begin with
This doesn’t feel accurate to me. To date, I’ve purchased two Tina sets, which when combined still don’t equal the cost of a stock CPC set I’d like. If Tina did not exist, I don’t believe that I would have yet made a CPC purchase.
While they are both nominally in the custom chip market, CPC is very much creating a luxury good (which I don’t say in a negative or as a judgment, just commenting on price and quality).
Similarly, I don’t feel like Honda Accord sales are hurting Ferrari.
I wouldn’t equate the automotive industry as the same as the limited options chippers have.
If you join this site, there are 3-4 ceramic options and 1 clay.
Take one plastic/ceramic option away, especially one that can offer RHC/SCROWN molds, it gives CPC a chance for more business.
Especially w Tina using scrown mold. Also offered only by CPC. Tina is using something that was very unique to ONLY CPC.
Especially with the limited options of custom designed chips. No comparison to the auto industry. Albeit small, it’s gonna hurt him.
Personally, given that none of the Tina molds are original, I'd say the more apt analogy would be comparing fake Louis Vuitton bags or fake Rolexes to the real thing.
If Tina chips existed when I first joined this forum good chance I would have never fell into this beautiful hell hole of journey. So glad they didn’t.
Believe it. I said the same thing before tina chips were even a known thing and @SeanGecko sent me samples years ago.
I’m sure most join looking for an upgrade from the typical home game chips. Never anticipated the journey this would take me on or the relationships formed.
I’m sure most join looking for an upgrade from the typical home game chips. Never anticipated the journey this would take me on or the relationships formed.
Amen to that. When I joined, all I wanted was a small set of Paulson NPS tournament chips. I told myself, "I can justify $1.50-2.00/chip because they'll be the only poker chips I'll ever need..."
If anything this thread clearly shows there are 2 distinct groups of members on this issue and related issues. Neither side is going to convince the other to change their minds. Not surprisingly the distribution seems to mirror new vs old chippers. Details like ownership and IP and propriety can be debated like in the politics thread with I’m sure the same lack of resolution and a lot of heat produced.
All of this leaves me with plenty to consider the next time I do business in the classifieds. And no there are no Hondas at my Ferrari dealership.
All of this leaves me with plenty to consider the next time I do business in the classifieds. And no there are no Hondas at my Ferrari dealership.
OP
OP
PocketAces
Full House
100% with you
Yup broadly speaking came to the same conclusion as you. And I like your choice of cars lol
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There you go. Exactly my point. @Eloe2000 has said the exact same thing. Some of the best designers and chippers on this forum.
Hey! Honda makes some BADASS race cars. They dominated open wheel racing in the 90s. Not sure how they’ve done in F1. Didn’t red bull buy honda engines?Damn, this pic would be so much better with a Tina chip and a Honda though
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