short handed - JJ in late position (2 Viewers)

[DrStrange]

We are playing $0.25/$0.50 live, ($20 max buy in) five handed. It is very late in the session, we started with nine players and half have gone home. What is left of the table is in the mood to gamble. Hero advocates for a "catch and release" philosophy for what to do when winning a straddled hand. Meaning if Hero wins your straddle, he puts it up as a new straddle next time he sits UTG. We are seeing about 50% of the hands getting straddled.

Cast of characters:

Button is playing $30 and is one of the losers for the night. She is one of the weirder players I ever known. Ultra loose, a mélange of calling station and LAGtard, her bet sizing when aggressing is more fixed limit than no limit. She is utterly indifferent to the pot size - could easily bet $5 holding the nuts looking at a $100 pot.

SB is playing $200 and is the big winner of the night. Normally this is an ABC fit-fold kind of TAG player but he loosens up and become more playful when ahead. He is a text book case of a player who's results affect his game. When he starts off bad, his game suffers and when ahead his game perks up.

BB is the ultimate calling station (UCS) playing $150. It has been a good night for him. As things ran his way, his aggression and stickiness increase.

UTG is playing $120. She has been on the roller coaster this session. For hours she spewed chips but the last couple of hours have gone her way. She is about even for the night. Her game is ABC TAG, but something is a little off and it makes her into a mildly losing player. Maybe she gets a little sticky post flop?

Hero is the CO playing $120. The first hours of the session were brutal. If it could go wrong it did. The table has see Hero with a lot of air and a little "run bad" at showdown. Hero has only won one significant hand, just a few minutes ago Hero almost quadrupled up when top set held off all the villains on a wet, wet board. If we were counting by hands, Hero has been curb stomped this session. If we go by chip totals, Hero is even for the night.

The hand:

UTG straddles for $1.25.

Hero holds Action on Hero. Limp or bet? If betting how much?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Raise to $5.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I like a raise to $6. Chance to steal the button, big enough to thin the herd, and not too big that it creates an unduly large pot.

 

[upNdown]

I'm guessing $6 will chase everybody away. But that's probably what I'd want to do with friggen Jacks, so I'm on board with that bet.

 

[DrStrange]

Hand values go up in a short handed game. JJ is roughly a top 2% hand. Do we really want to just win $2 from the blinds + straddle especially knowing Hero will straddle that $1.25 the very next hand?

Though I have to say the two other times Hero started with pocket jacks this session it would have been best just to fold them.

 

[MacGrad]

No limping with JJ. Raise to $5.75 to get more 25c fracs into the pot -- based on the cast of characters, we need to prepare for a multi-way pot. Only UTG seems unlikely to go speculating at this point, so they've got a hand if they stay in. The others are getting more loose / aggressive, so I would imagine we need to add drawing hands and Ax to the possible ranges out there.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Only one player has to get frisky and call $6 (with $100+ stacks all-around, except button) for us to be in a heads-up pot, in position, against an inferior hand and in a large pot SPR-wise.

And if $6 would routinely chase everyone out to this degree, consider raising $6 with a wide variety of hands.

 

[upNdown]

Hand values go up in a short handed game. JJ is roughly a top 2% hand. Do we really want to just win $2 from the blinds + straddle especially knowing Hero will straddle that $1.25 the very next hand?

Though I have to say the two other times Hero started with pocket jacks this session it would have been best just to fold them.

No, you're right. My first thought was to make it $3.00 - at this point in the night, you want to see a flop with those two cards.

 

[Trihonda]

Bet $4.50.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I also like the raise to around $4.50

 

[DrStrange]

*** The flop ***

Hero raises to $4.50. BB and UTG call, the rest fold. $13.75 in the pot, three way action. Hero holds

BB is the ultimate calling station (UCS) playing $150. It has been a good night for him. As things ran his way, his aggression and stickiness increase.

UTG is playing $120. She has been on the roller coaster this session. For hours she spewed chips but the last couple of hours have gone her way. She is about even for the night. Her game is ABC TAG, but something is a little off and it makes her into a mildly losing player. Maybe she gets a little sticky post flop?

Flop is

BB checks. UTG bets $6. Action on Hero, fold, call or raise? If raising, how much?

 

[Trihonda]

are we against A9s? If BB will come along if you flat, I suggest a small raise (maybe to $14). If the BB will fold, I'd consider a flat (sometimes in this spot).

 

[Jimulacrum]

Make it $20 to go.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I lean towards a flat, lets enjoy our positional advantage and not bloat the pot too much just yet with our one pair hand

 

[upNdown]

pot

 

[Kain8]

Pump it to $25 and shove any turn that's not a club or an overcard to your jacks.

 

[courage]

Agree with raise to $22-25.

 

[Adam Crowley]

I'm assuming that UTG $6 bet is supposed to be half pot and they under estimated pot size?

Weird spot for an ABC tag to lead flop.

I would raise against loose players if you feel it wouldn't turn your hand face up. If players have a good read on your game I like calling and playing your hand in position. You are keeping your range wider and leaving more room for your opponents to make mistakes.

Edit: raise size of $20 - $25 seems good

 

[DrStrange]

A raise from Hero hardly turns his hand face up. There was already some notion that Hero holds a hand like a pair or two broadway cards, it wouldn't be surprising that Hero would raise Villain's half pot bet. The table has seen Hero take liberties with two over cards earlier in the session.

 

[shawn15p]

Easy fold. You NEVER win with jacks.

 

[DrStrange]

*** It starts getting ugly ***

Hero raises to $20 - a $14 raise into a $25.75 pot, 54%. (in hindsight I think that was a little too small.)

BB folds, UTG calls. $53.75 in the pot, it is heads up. Hero holds

Turn is: < >

Villain checks. Now the action is on Hero, bet or check behind? Note that this villain is able to give Hero rope to hang himself rather than bet her newly made draw { if in fact that is what she had }

what types of hand do we put in Villain's range?

DrStrange

PS I am hoping to see if some critical thoughts running through Hero's mind show up in the advice offered to Hero.

 

[Jimulacrum]

It would be really nice to just get to showdown at this point. We shouldn't just give up here, even though that does improve a lot of hands that could call the flop. A modest bet of $25 or $30 should be good for getting us value when we're ahead but leaving us room to escape if that turn just beat us.

If we get check-raised, fold, duh.

If Villain flats and checks the river, awesome. Check back, showdown (or mayyyyybe a smallish value bet on certain rivers).

If Villain flats and bets out the river, it'll be time to reassess.

I could see a case for checking behind on the turn, but the trouble with that is that we give a free card when we're ahead, and we'd be setting ourselves up to have to call a river bet from Villain (because the check may induce a bluff or a marginal value bet from, say, a pair of tens). If we bet now, we protect our hand better when we're ahead, and we get first stab at trying to set the bet size for showdown.

 

[upNdown]

I would have thought suited Broadway cards at least, based on the initial call of 9 big blinds. Maybe a middle pair.
The $6 raise on that crappy flop didn't really tell me anything, but calling the $20 does. Either she made her set, or she's got a great draw. Would she have played a suited 8-9?
With nothing but an overpair, I think I'm checking here.

 

[Don Clay]

I really don't like the turn here, though Hero is probably still ahead.
Ugly river (any ace or king, any club) to come ?

Hero checks in order to control pot.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Is Villain likely to bluff river if we check turn? is Villain the type to check-raise in this spot? Their flop bet could be consistent with someone trying to control the price of a flush draw hand. But Villain could equally be concerned with the flush draw having gotten there.

The problem here is now stack sizes more than anything. We can't comfortably bet a reasonable amount and then not call a shove, I don't think. So I guess check behind, Villain still has to act first on the river.

 

[DrStrange]

villain is unlikely to bluff the river with nothing, but might bet some medium quality hand on the river for value (say two pair or perhaps A9).

If villain check raises Hero on the turn, she means business. I don't believe she thinks deeply enough to consider that Hero is nearing pot commitment and likely will snap off a bluff due to risk vs reward.

Yes, Villain's attitude towards the three card flush on the board will likely polarize her decision making.

 

[Adam Crowley]

When villain leads flop I think we are looking at 99,77,44,97,A9,K9,Qc9,Jc9,Tc9. any random hands where villian leads thinking they are ahead are removed when we raise flop. My question is will villain fold a set two pair when I bet three streets here.

If not Im going to check turn, if yes then im going to bet turn and shove river

 

[DrStrange]

Villain is not folding a set. I think she isn't folding two pair either.

 

[Kain8]

Villain is not folding a set. I think she isn't folding two pair either.

If the villain will not fold better hands than ours when a flush draw has been completed, then betting with an overpair makes very little sense to me here. Check and see what the river brings.

 

[DrStrange]

What if villain has a club draw? There is value in getting that hand to fold - or charging villain a price to draw. There is almost no chance that villain is drawing dead.

On the other hand, hero could be drawing dead.

PS - - I found this decision to be the hardest one of the session.