SHUFFLE TECH News (3 Viewers)

[tabletalker7]

The manufacturer specifically states "Use poker size cards". I don't have bridge size cards (never did) so I can't test it for you.

 

[davethesave]

It works with both, surely?

I have a shuffletech and it can take both cards, but jams happen. From what I have read and seen, it prefers Poker sized as the bridge tends to be narrow for it.... but I will do more testing once I get this machine properly cleaned

 

[namsupak]

I’m sure this has been posted? But....does the shuffletech work with bridge size cards? Or only poker size?

It works with both, but in my experience having a few of these machines the poker size works better and tends to have less jams. I think that its the way the roller chucks the card from one side to the other. the more narrow cards have a little more room to move so they can fly a little different or even turn and then the edge catches the elevator. That click clack sound you hear is the hards hitting the plastic wall.

Also regarding the shuffle tech, even though I could buy a dozen or more for one professional shuffler, there is just no comparison, if you have it in your budget go the commercial route. The shuffle tech is a fair machine but a deckmate or a shuffle king is just so much better.

 

[Dix]

That click clack sound you hear is the cards hitting the plastic wall.

They can be somewhat "noisy" for some people. Less so if it's table mounted. I think it may have been @Undream who said he has a towel wrapped around his (flush mounted in a side cart) to quiet it down.

It's not really all THAT loud. However, it being that I suffer from a severe case of OCT (Obsessive Compulsive Tinkering) I'm kind of working on that. You know that old adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Yea.... I never got that memo.

Stock, out of the box, I measured an average of 60dB(A) @ 2 ft. with a peak of 74.9dB. (subtract 6dB for each doubling of distance)

If you're wondering, that range runs from a typical conversation level to running your shower or flushing your toilet.

I've actually had some success in quieting it down, but in current form it tends to cause a few more jams than the unmuffled stock version. So, it's still a bit of a work in progress in refining the modifications. I just got a different material to try out a few days ago. I'll let everyone know how that turns out when I can get back to it.

For those of you who are curious.... here's a soundclip I recorded of the stock unmuffled shuffler in action. - AUDIO CLIP

For the technically audio minded, the signal chain was an MXL V67i (studio quality large diaphragm condenser mic) into the DAW (Reaper v5) via a Tascam US-122 interface. The only processing was the use of ReaFIR (FFT based dynamics processor) for broadband noise reduction, & a narrow-Q notch filter at 120 Hz (hum issue I have in the shop).

 

[Forty4]

@Dix I’m curious about your muffling process/results. I tried a few things myself. Currently I just have a piece of foam from the top of an Apache case in the card removal tray as I retrieve the cards from the top like a flush mount design. Think I also put some weatherstripping on the sides as the noise comes from the cards hitting the plastic shell.

The best success I had was taking some vinyl wrapped door jam weatherstripping, the wedges that go in the bottom corners, and putting that on the card tray. Unfortunately that caused jams with bridge size and poker couldn’t fit.

 

[JoeBGo]

If/when I get one, my plan was to mount it in a rolling drawer/cart. I was planning on lining the inside of the drawer with Dynamat? I figured that stuff works wonders in automotive audio.

 

[Dix]

@Dix I’m curious about your muffling process/results.

Working on it.... The "process" I'm using involves padding the unpadded tray areas of the card path. I found some 1/32" adhesive back foam material. Which is thin enough that it doesn't interfere with the use of poker size cards.

Problem is that it creates occasional hangups where the cards have to pass over it on that side of the tray. None that the shuffler can't work itself out of usually, but still, something of a minor annoyance.

I've found some harder neoprene that may be a better option (at least for those specific points) which will let me cut the top at an angle to match the entry lip angle of the trays & should alleviate the occasional hangups.

So.... as always.... stay tuned.

If/when I get one, my plan was to mount it in a rolling drawer/cart. I was planning on lining the inside of the drawer with Dynamat? I figured that stuff works wonders in automotive audio.

Just mounting inside something (or in your table so it's actually under the table) so it's not in direct line of sight with your ears goes a long way by itself. Doing something beyond that becomes gravy.

Audio physics rule of thumb.... if you double the distance from the source, your perceived level drops by 6dB (-10dB is half - the scale is logarithmic) Whether you do that via actual line-of-sight distance or via crating a reflective path is immaterial (mostly), the difference is the same.

 

[namsupak]

@Dix I thought about taking that card elevator out and spraying some sort of rubberized coating material on it so there wouldn't be any seams. I tried the foam like you talked about before and I couldn't get it to work or look right. Just the slightest thing can catch the cards to hangup kind of like what you are describing above. I decided it wasn't worth it after some time mostly because It's not like I can get new parts for the machine unless I 3d print them or something. And I could never get in touch with customer support, which I would have been more than happy to purchase parts from. In the end I just ended up buying a commercial shuffler to save myself the headache. Good luck with it though, and if you get something to really work let us know.

 

[junkandjunk]

That is the exact reason why those of us who have this Shuffle Tech machine have it. We take the worst part of poker for our guests (shuffling) and take it out of their hands. That way they can enjoy the game.

Half the reason i kind of want to build one.
Only reason I haven't bought it is because I'm cheap and want to see if I can actually build one.

Triple check the patent office buddy - that is how they do it, and we all learned from Shuffle Tech just how far ShuffleMaster will go to stop you.

Guaranteed if I'm trying to enter the casino market, but like Shuffle Tech this would be geared towards home use.

Also didn't Shufflemaster lose the lawsuit?
That's not to say they won't try to bury me (or anyone) in legal bills but they're already behind based on precedence.

 

[Dix]

Also didn't Shufflemaster lose the lawsuit?

Kinda.... sorta.... depends.

They lost the initial verdict & the judgement was for over a quarter Billion ($300M & change if I recall). Naturally, they appealed.

Before the appeal went through, a deal was struck that knocked the figure down to $150 Million. Whether or not ShuffleTech staying out of the casino market was a part of that deal, I don't believe was ever disclosed.

But, if you say you're willing to write me a nine-figure check to do nothing.... it might not take too much in the way of shrewd negotiation skills on your part to convince me to take that deal.

Either way, it seems Shuffle Master considered it a bargain & a win. I remember reading about the settlement in some financial news article regarding them being able to beat some quarterly projections based on it. Or something to that effect.

If $150M, a bunch of other legal costs, & a few years worth of legal crap is a bargain for keeping it to themselves, that must be one h*ll of a market niche they've got carved out for themselves.

 

[BonScot]

They’re selling these in Europe on eBay for £600. Thinking about getting one.
Some of the reviews on Amazon are dreadful and the noise puts me off, however the guys who own one on here seem to rate them.
Quick question to the owners. If you could go back in time and had the choice of buying it again, would you?

Also if I bought one it would be just sitting on top of a side table and not flush mounted. Can anyone see any problem with that?

 

[tabletalker7]

They’re selling these in Europe on eBay for £600. Thinking about getting one.
Some of the reviews on Amazon are dreadful and the noise puts me off, however the guys who own one on here seem to rate them.
Quick question to the owners. If you could go back in time and had the choice of buying it again, would you?

Also if I bought one it would be just sitting on top of a side table and not flush mounted. Can anyone see any problem with that?

Once I got mine I knew there was no turning back - it is great. Best way to reduce noise is to flush mount it in something so you can use some insulation to reduce noise, but a lot of people say just having it flush mounted into the table reduces noise enough.

Also, check out www.shuffletech.eu for better prices

 

[BonScot]

Once I got mine I knew there was no turning back - it is great. Best way to reduce noise is to flush mount it in something so you can use some insulation to reduce noise, but a lot of people say just having it flush mounted into the table reduces noise enough.

I wouldn’t be flush mounting as everything poker related gets stashed in a cupboard when the game’s over (no basements in a flat).
How loud is it when it’s no flush mounted? Would it distract from the game? We tend to gibber a lot and there’s always music on.

 

[tabletalker7]

I wouldn’t be flush mounting as everything poker related gets stashed in a cupboard when the game’s over (no basements in a flat).
How loud is it when it’s no flush mounted? Would it distract from the game? We tend to gibber a lot and there’s always music on.

I recommend flush mounting - having this thing loose is quite a bit louder

 

[BonScot]

I recommend flush mounting - having this thing loose is quite a bit louder

Don’t think the missus is gonna like it when I cut a hole in the dining table

 

[tabletalker7]

Don’t think the missus is gonna like it when I cut a hole in the dining table

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/shuffle-tech-mounting-project.48358/ do something like this then - lets you store chips in the bottom too. There are lots of posts here about various things people have mounted this shuffler in

 

[BonScot]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/shuffle-tech-mounting-project.48358/ do something like this then - lets you store chips in the bottom too. There are lots of posts here about various things people have mounted this shuffler in

I’ve read that thread. Really good ideas. Space is at a premium and I need to be able to box everything up and put it away at the of the game. So if I get one it’ll be sitting next to me on a chair or something.

 

[Dix]

Noise is no worse than a normal conversational level, (or a little better if you're the one sitting right next to it) & only lasts long enough for it to cycle.

I think it's more the sound (as in frequencies) it makes more than the level itself. If you scroll up I have an audio clip.

 

[BonScot]

Noise is no worse than a normal conversational level, (or a little better if you're the one sitting right next to it) & only lasts long enough for it to cycle.

If you scroll up I have an audio clip.

I listened to your audio clip but not sure if I should have my volume turned right up

Would you say that having one of these was a game changer? My guys are brutal at shuffling and take forever. That’s my reasoning for considering buying one.

 

[Dix]

LOL.... you were quicker than my edit.

Definately in that case. Either introduce them to the idea of using two decks or get a shuffler. Increased the hands/hr count in the cash game I play by about 15.

I still use two decks. One is getting shuffled while I deal the one in my hands.

 

[BonScot]

LOL.... you were quicker than my edit.

Definately in that case. Either introduce them to the idea of using two decks or get a shuffler. Increased the hands/hr count in the cash game I play by about 15.

I still use two decks. One is getting shuffled while I deal the one in my hands.

Two decks and a shuffler is the way to go. Think I’m gonna buy one of those shuffle techs.

 

[junkandjunk]

If $150M, a bunch of other legal costs, & a few years worth of legal crap is a bargain for keeping it to themselves, that must be one h*ll of a market niche they've got carved out for themselves.

Let's say $200M. Divided by the $20000 new price tag means they sell 10000 units that Shuffle Tech doesn't and they have it paid for.
Plus since they're the only outfit in town, who else is a casino gonna buy from?

(Not quite accurate since they have to pay for the actual unit itself but you get the idea. There's no way the BOM is anywhere near $20k)

 

[Dix]

I don't recall 'em being $20k, (I want to say the 12-15 ballpark, but that was a few years ago) But even at that, you're not far off the mark with any of that.

Once the initial R&D was paid for, & you've got the production infrastructure set up & in play, you could likely build one of those things for $5k or less... all-in. Then maybe peel a couple grand of profit off for expected warranty service costs. Another grand or two general overhead & operating costs.... yea, you still end up at somewhere around $5-7k mark per. My own wild-*ssed guess.

& they also have lease deals if I recall correctly as well. There's some guaranteed steady income.

There is a European made unit. Don't recall the name off the top of my head.... Shuffle King, maybe? Around the same price.

But then, if you're a US casino & service matters (& why wouldn't it?) I'll bet if you're in Vegas you can pick up a phone & Shuffle Master could have someone there in about a half hour to fix your problem.

 

[junkandjunk]

I don't recall 'em being $20k, (I want to say the 12-15 ballpark, but that was a few years ago) But even at that, you're not far off the mark with any of that.

Really? $12k new? That's actually "cheap" relatively speaking.
Apparently rentals cost $500/month so that's only 24 months and you "own" it.
Granted I don't think buying it comes with any sort of warranty/service contract/etc.

Once the initial R&D was paid for, & you've got the production infrastructure set up & in play, you could likely build one of those things for $5k or less... all-in.

Actual BOM it'd shock me if there was more than $1000 worth of stuff in there.
But that's a WAG based on 60 seconds of Youtube videos.
Obviously this wouldn't count their "logic board" that's MSRP of $10000.

they also have lease deals if I recall correctly as well. There's some guaranteed steady income.

Yeah... with my own WAG, you'd pay for the machine itself in 2 months on a lease deal since I think it was $500/month.
Obviously everyone needs to be paid including sales, tech, power company, landlord, R&D guy, lawyers, etc so it's definitely not OMG 2 months and we're in the money!

A lease actually makes sense for a casino too since i'm assuming there's an SLA in terms of downtime.

But then, if you're a US casino & service matters (& why wouldn't it?) I'll bet if you're in Vegas you can pick up a phone & Shuffle Master could have someone there in about a half hour to fix your problem.

That wouldn't surprise me literally in every territory. It'd be the only reason a lease makes any sense.
Vegas I could easily see 30 minutes but I'd be surprised if the SLA for anywhere they service/sell would have more than a 4 hour service window.

I used to play in a cardroom where they had 5-6 "spares" (dead?) Deckmate v1s in the corner.

 

[tabletalker7]

Don’t think the missus is gonna like it when I cut a hole in the dining table

A kitchen cabinet from home depot also gives you room to store chips in it

 

[BonScot]

View attachment 471355
A kitchen cabinet from home depot also gives you room to store chips in it

Looks good but I stay in a flat so my poker stuff gets put away after every game.

 

[sheikh617]

They’re selling these in Europe on eBay for £600. Thinking about getting one.
Some of the reviews on Amazon are dreadful and the noise puts me off, however the guys who own one on here seem to rate them.
Quick question to the owners. If you could go back in time and had the choice of buying it again, would you?

Also if I bought one it would be just sitting on top of a side table and not flush mounted. Can anyone see any problem with that?

I would definitely buy one again. I love mine. I definitely recommend a side cart or some kind of an Apache case that you can mount it in for insulation of sound. Any kind of enclosure you build around it will help, and if you so use dampening material it will be even better.

 

[BonScot]

I would definitely buy one again. I love mine. I definitely recommend a side cart or some kind of an Apache case that you can mount it in for insulation of sound. Any kind of enclosure you build around it will help, and if you so use dampening material it will be even better.

Sounds like it would be too noisy without being flush mounted.

 

[sheikh617]

Honestly, mine isn't really enclosed, it's just built into a side cart. You can definitely hear it, but it doesnt overtake table noise.

 

[BGinGA]

Sounds like it would be too noisy without being flush mounted.

Flush mount it in an insulated suitcase. Quiet and still portable for easy storage.