Someone please explain the DIBS system here in the Classifieds/m2m (2 Viewers)

[JustinInMN]

Maybe I can add a one-click "I'll take it" button. I was not really sure what "dibs" meant the other day. I had to PM the person to ask if that meant they are buying it because a few others posted that they also would take it.

@Tommy is such a noob.

 

[JustinInMN]

If you ever wanted proof that "dibs" is nothing but a clusterfuck, read the first page of this sale thread from today:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/crispy-white-starbursts.67724/

I tried to read this, but then I realized I am ignoring the seller, so that makes it tricky. Don't think I care to change the setting.

 

[warewulf]

I explained the whole dibs thing to my wife. She applauds both the seller and the person that made a higher offer. Makes a little more sense knowing the seller hasn't been living on the forum like some of us and didn't know his prices were low.

Regarding sellers fishing for a price if they're out of touch: Someone could always list it as a trade and say 'Let me know what you would trade, might consider selling'.

 

[stavman]

That was a shit show. Added two more people without integrity to my no-deal list.

Cool.
I think expectation for sellers with the dibs system is the shit show.
This whole dibs system is just odd. I’ve been buying and selling cars, motorcycle, and parts for pretty much 20 years on forums. It was always pretty normal to get multiple offers and some over asking on rare and needed items.
It was also normal for me to offer over asking on something I really wanted. I’ve never thought of that as wrong in anyway

 

[CrazyEddie]

Someone saying "Hey, I'm selling this for ten bucks, anyone want it?" followed by "I'll take it" does not constitute offer and acceptance, and the position by many on this forum that saying "Hey, I'm selling this for ten bucks, anyone want it?" somehow obliges the seller to sell at that price to the first person to respond is a terrible, terrible mistake.

Saying "Hey, Bob, I'll sell you this for ten bucks, want it?" and Bob saying "Yes, I'll take it" .... now THAT is offer and acceptance.

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

I would argue the dibs system makes perfect sense when you account for the guidelines:

FOR SALE ADS MUST HAVE A PRICE. Offers by PM no longer acceptable. If you do not know what to ask, make your ad an Auction.

So if you have to name your price beforehand, the intention seems to be that you are supposed to honor your asking price or just do an auction.
That does not leave much more than the timestamp to decide between willing buyers unless you specifically state otherwise.

There is no particular legal grounds for this, it is just the way I feel it is intended and accepted around here.

 

[Eloe2000]

.

 

[BGinGA]

Someone saying "Hey, I'm selling this for ten bucks, anyone want it?" followed by "I'll take it" does not constitute offer and acceptance, and the position by many on this forum that saying "Hey, I'm selling this for ten bucks, anyone want it?" somehow obliges the seller to sell at that price to the first person to respond is a terrible, terrible mistake.

You could not be more wrong.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Advertisements do not constitute offers, according to my google-diploma in law. I naturally defer to actual lawyers, but would love a better explanation than "you're wrong".

 

[Hornet]

Someone saying "Hey, I'm selling this for ten bucks, anyone want it?" followed by "I'll take it" does not constitute offer and acceptance, and the position by many on this forum that saying "Hey, I'm selling this for ten bucks, anyone want it?" somehow obliges the seller to sell at that price to the first person to respond is a terrible, terrible mistake.

Saying "Hey, Bob, I'll sell you this for ten bucks, want it?" and Bob saying "Yes, I'll take it" .... now THAT is offer and acceptance.

Legally, this is not so clear. Even advertisements can be considered offers if the terms are clear and it is clear an offeree can accept. See the case below.

A Minnesota court treated a newspaper advertisement – for fur coat accessories selling at $1.00 – as an offer. The defendant placed two advertisements in the local newspaper a week apart from one another. In the advertisements, the defendant listed the quantity, type of item, price, and included the term “first come, first served.” Since the advertisement was targeted towards the offeree (the “first come”), it was considered an offer. Thus, its acceptance by a purchaser would create a contract.[23]

 

[CrazyEddie]

The lack of terms such as "first come, first served" in typical PCF classifieds posts would seem to argue against most such posts being offers, for exactly the reasons argued in that case.

 

[Hornet]

The lack of terms such as "first come, first served" in typical PCF classifieds posts would seem to argue against most such posts being offers, for exactly the reasons argued in that case.

I beg to differ. I would argue that it is understood in this forum that when you place a sales ad with all the terms laid out clearly, the first person to claim the chips is able to do so without further negotiation.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Without seeing any such thing in the posted guidelines, I don't know why you would draw that conclusion.

 

[Hornet]

I think it is implicit in the following guideline:

• FOR SALE ADS MUST HAVE A PRICE. Offers by PM no longer acceptable. If you do not know what to ask, make your ad an Auction.

The function of that guideline is to make an ad sufficiently definite so that it is considered an offer.

Generally, an advertisement may be considered a valid offer if it has the following three elements. I believe all of them are satisfied through PCF ads.

1. It is sufficiently definite in its terms (e.g. descriptions, quality, quantity, & price);
2. It is communicated to a specific person or persons (usually limited group of people);
3. The circumstances surrounding the publication show that the advertiser has the intent to enter into a contract.

 

[72o]

I honestly feel like with the membership where it’s at right now (over 10,000) maybe things need to be laid out better in the classifieds. It used to be a cool, small, close knit community but now it clearly isn’t. It’s ruthless now.

Just a few hours ago, someone claimed chips based on a sellers asking price but he got “outbid” via pm and the chips were sold out from underneath. Just wow. Not right in my mind.

 

[superchromix]

Dibs means nothing. There are lots of situations where it makes more sense for the seller to sell to someone who posted interest second, third, or whenever. For example if a later post wanted multiple lots of chips, or if the shipping solution for another buyer is simply easier for the seller. The seller does not have any obligation to explain that beforehand in the for sale post.

tl:dr, Honoring dibs is a courtesy of the seller, not a right which can be demanded by the buyer.

 

[Eriks]

Dibs means nothing. There are lots of situations where it makes more sense for the seller to sell to someone who posted interest second, third, or whenever. For example if a later post wanted multiple lots of chips, or if the shipping solution for another buyer is simply easier for the seller. The seller does not have any obligation to explain that beforehand in the for sale post.

tl:dr, Honoring dibs is a courtesy of the seller, not a right which can be demanded by the buyer.

Perhaps no obligation, but it sure makes everyones’ lives a lot easier around here if the seller does explain the terms in the sale post, no?

 

[superchromix]

Perhaps no obligation, but it sure makes everyones’ lives a lot easier around here if the seller does explain the terms in the sale post, no?

Surely it does, but adding information like this comes with experience in selling on the classifieds sub-forum. I wouldn’t necessarily expect new sellers to know such fine details of etiquette.

 

[Thomacetti]

I honestly feel like with the membership where it’s at right now (over 10,000) maybe things need to be laid out better in the classifieds. It used to be a cool, small, close knit community but now it clearly isn’t. It’s ruthless now.

Just a few hours ago, someone claimed chips based on a sellers asking price but he got “outbid” via pm and the chips were sold out from underneath. Just wow. Not right in my mind.

Same here...sellers offers me a rack, since it's a joint buy I ask 24h to hook up with the other buyer to close the deal with him.
12h later (it was night over here) he pm-ed me the rack is sold and received the money...

If this is how current PCF sales work...then i'm only buying & selling via pm from people I know & trust.

 

[Eriks]

Surely it does, but adding information like this comes with experience in selling on the classifieds sub-forum. I wouldn’t necessarily expect new sellers to know such fine details of etiquette.

I agree, I learned it the hard way and decided to honor first taker even though it was for smaller lot than subsequential buyers. Because that’s how I would like to be treated as a buyer. If one knows it may require buying the full lot to get what one needs from the get go, it’s more fair.

 

[JustinInMN]

tl:dr, Honoring dibs is a courtesy of the seller, not a right which can be demanded by the buyer.

So well put! THANK YOU.

Same here...sellers offers me a rack, since it's a joint buy I ask 24h to hook up with the other buyer to close the deal with him.
12h later (it was night over here) he pm-ed me the rack is sold and received the money...

If this is how current PCF sales work...then i'm only buying & selling via pm from people I know & trust.

So you expect a seller to grant you exclusivity for 24h for a deal you will only close based on a conversation with someone you are not identifying and expect him to turn down a sure offer that happens in the interim?

I made my way through college with retail jobs that trained me to make the customer happy as much as possible, but the entitlement of some of the buyers on here that want to dictate terms that may harm the seller is asinine.

Again, I rarely use the classifieds, and nothing that would be considered rare collectables, just sample sets of my customs.

But geez, just putting "dibs" on something shouldn't be an assumption of anything without IMMEDIATE FOLLOW THROUGH via DM.

A lot of people on here seem to want to use "dibs" as a means of leaving sellers to twist until the buyer finds it convenient to make contact. It's downright rude.

 

[Thomacetti]

So you expect a seller to grant you exclusivity for 24h for a deal you will only close based on a conversation with someone you are not identifying and expect him to turn down a sure offer that happens in the interim?

I'm not going into this because the seller contacted me and made good.
He did acknowledge his mistake, so we are good (mistakes can happen).

And for the record...this was my last reply to him (and he knew who the other buyer was).

I'll contact him and work something out.

Will let you know in 24h

Have a great Saturday

So no exclusivity...just some time to work out details (work out payment & PP fees, breakdown, who will receive it, ... all kind of stuff international buyers need to work out).

Or I could just (like many new members) post dibs and reneg if it doesn't work out.
I don't play that game and if someone in the +10 years can post ONE sale where I backed out...PLEASE DO

This is old vs new school chippers imho
And again, seller in question made good to me...so that is not the point anymore and faith is restored

 

[Eloe2000]

But I think people mean different things when they refer to "dibs" which makes the discussion here a little confusing.

For example when a member posts a specific rack of chips for sale for a stated price and someone responds first unambiguously saying "I will take the rack. PMed" and immediately follows that by a PM with their address and request for paypal payment details. Are people here referring to that as "dibs"?

 

[Hornet]

For example when a member posts a specific rack of chips for sale for a stated price and someone responds first unambiguously saying "I will take the rack. PMed" and immediately follows that by a PM with their address and request for paypal payment details. Are people here referring to that as "dibs"?

Yes I think generally people refer to that as dibs. But there is confusion on that point.

 

[Hornet]

So well put! THANK YOU.


So you expect a seller to grant you exclusivity for 24h for a deal you will only close based on a conversation with someone you are not identifying and expect him to turn down a sure offer that happens in the interim?

I made my way through college with retail jobs that trained me to make the customer happy as much as possible, but the entitlement of some of the buyers on here that want to dictate terms that may harm the seller is asinine.

Again, I rarely use the classifieds, and nothing that would be considered rare collectables, just sample sets of my customs.

But geez, just putting "dibs" on something shouldn't be an assumption of anything without IMMEDIATE FOLLOW THROUGH via DM.

A lot of people on here seem to want to use "dibs" as a means of leaving sellers to twist until the buyer finds it convenient to make contact. It's downright rude.

I think the appropriate way to handle all of these things is to communicate clearly. That way expectations are clear up front. A buyer doesn’t have a right to make a seller pass up other deals, but the seller should make it clear that he is not holding the chips for the buyer in that scenario.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I'll contact him and work something out.

Will let you know in 24h

Have a great Saturday

That's not dibs. That's "maybe I'll take it". It's been said time and time again in this thread that if the so-called "dibs" so-called "system" has any meaning then it's an unconditional acceptance. Perhaps there's a language barrier, but this private message reads to me like you're saying that it's possible you'll have to back out of the sale 24 hours later if you can't work something out with this third party. That's not an unconditional acceptance.

But again, I may be misreading what you intended to say with that message. If so, that only underscores the difficulty in applying this so-called "system" when different people have different understandings of what any of this means.

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm not going into this because the seller contacted me and made good.

So my apologies if we are talking about an actual situation where I may not be aware. I was just reacting to the details presented here as if they were hypothetical.

So no exclusivity...just some time to work out details (work out payment & PP fees, breakdown, who will receive it, ... all kind of stuff international buyers need to work out).

But from what I gather you sent a note asking for 24h and got upset when another deal transpired in the interim. That is by definition exclusivity.

Now if the seller promised you exclusivity during that time (and I guess this is a detail not presented), he's obliged to grant it, but if not, just because you ask doesn't mean the seller has to say yes.

A buyer doesn’t have a right to make a seller pass up other deals, but the seller should make it clear that he is not holding the chips for the buyer in that scenario.

I agree to a point, but I would say unless the seller explicitly indicates he is willing to hold the buyer should not assume a hold exists just because he asked.

 

[Thomacetti]

Now if the seller promised you exclusivity during that time (and I guess this is a detail not presented), he's obliged to grant it, but if not, just because you ask doesn't mean the seller has to say yes.

He did...
If he posted that other potentional buyers were in the game...and that he would sell if he got another offer.than I would have understood 100% and not be posting my previous post.

 

[Eloe2000]

Wow... two days in a row and the same thing happens. I wasn’t involved in this sale but the other person who got snaked with me yesterday was. I would be livid.

I have got to say this is being driven, not by the sellers, but the snakes in the grass.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...o-de-mexico-casino-ithmus.68869/#post-1391952

 

[davislane]

Isnt there always the option to overprice something with the option to entertain offers if you are unsure? Seems like the logical compromise to me.

E.g Rack of primary HSI fracs. $800 O.B.O.