Straight flush on the board, WWYD? (1 Viewer)

[fish72s]

 

[honkydevil]

I was in a similar spot in a tourney once. I was button in a 3-4 handed pot at the river, I think there was a lot of checking postflop, and put in a good raise, only 1 call, chopped instead of splitting 3 or 4 way.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Fold.

 

[arch3r]

I'm guessing villain is holding A rag off suit. He calls the flop cause why not - 3x raise is standard and with an A 2-handed, see a flop. The turn gives him the nut flush draw but he's cautious and is happy to just call your bet. The river counterfeits his nut flush and he's free rolling a chop. Call and get your money back.

 

[JustinInMN]

So I count 5900 in the pot before villian shoves for 8k. So 8k to win 2900, so we have to chop 5 times out of 8 in this spot.

I would hesitate to give villian + without a 3 bet, but the answer to this question really what informs the river decision. But assuming all the other diamond combos he could have the or that's three chops to one loss right there. If you draw the line exactly between AT and A9 then you may have to think about the fold. If villian is always 3 betting A9s in this spot (and he might be if he's aware you are opening UTG as wide as J8o) then you can call with comfort. Aside from the suited combos, If villan can have pairs (with an offsuit card) with the :Ad: we chop with all of those hands. So the math seems to favor a call to me.

What's interesting is what is villian trying to accomplish by showing :Ad:? This really makes it a bit of a leveling war. Does he expect you to interpret this as the other card must be or is he trying to make it look like he's trying to make you fold a chop?

I guess without that insight, the math makes me call.

 

[Shaggy]

Fold.

If you call and split the pot, you get back your ~2400. If you call and lose, you lose 8k. Your stack at the start of the hand was 100bbs. Folding doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and winning doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and losing DOES impact your stack.

 

[justsomedude]

Fold.

If you call and split the pot, you get back your ~2400. If you call and lose, you lose 8k. Your stack at the start of the hand was 100bbs. Folding doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and winning doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and losing DOES impact your stack.

^^^^ Possibly the best reply so far... and I might be changing my position based on it.

 

[v1pe]

Probably never finding a fold here against a competent player, but that might be incorrect in a tourney environment.

 

[T_Chan]

I'm glad to know that my thought process was mostly on par. Most of the comments so far are pretty much what was going through my head on both sides of the equation.

This behavior from Villain isn't out of the ordinary. Probably about once a tournament he'll offer his opponents that they can reveal one of his cards during a heads up hand after he's made a big bet. This one is a bit different in that he didn't let me choose, but rather chose which one to show.

For those who are in favor of a call, what if Villain has 12 or 15k behind?

 

[T_Chan]

Fold.

If you call and split the pot, you get back your ~2400. If you call and lose, you lose 8k. Your stack at the start of the hand was 100bbs. Folding doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and winning doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and losing DOES impact your stack.

While that thought process went through my mind, I started digging into deeper thought. I know that Villain knows that I will think about the ratio this way, which is what makes me more likely to fold. It's a great bet on his part.

Spoiler: My action

I ended up calling the bet. He flips over A9 of diamonds for the higher straight flush.

 

[BGinGA]

Call, and then petition the TD to invoke a one round sit-out penalty on the villain for disclosing his hand.

I'm expecting a chop+ result here.

Opponent's stack size makes no difference to me -- if he has the 9d, he's betting for value, and not gonna risk blowing me off the hand.

 

[justsomedude]

While that thought process went through my mind, I started digging into deeper thought. I know that Villain knows that I will think about the ratio this way, which is what makes me more likely to fold. It's a great bet on his part.

Spoiler: My action

I ended up calling the bet. He flips over A9 of diamonds for the higher straight flush.

Spoiler

 

[colter ripton]

That's why I have a pretty hard and fast rule about calling for a chop. I have been burned just like that a few times.

I still make the bet with or without the 9 if I am the villian here. And if he checks again I probably also shove. I just dont like making the call especially for a large portion of my stack. I usually just say good bet and muck it.

 

[JustinInMN]

If I had to think about it from a psychological standpoint, showing a card here always means there's only one combo that can beat you. If he didn't show a card there are probably multiple ways you could put the in villian's hand. Any ace, maybe any king, suited j, suited t. So if you think villian knows that it increases your likleyhood of calling by showing there's only one losing combination, that might be a good reason to consider a fold. But I would have to assume villian is this knowledgeable to consider this fold. If he isn't, I think you win enough here to call.

So this is the other side of the math argument I made earlier.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Fold.

If you call and split the pot, you get back your ~2400. If you call and lose, you lose 8k. Your stack at the start of the hand was 100bbs. Folding doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and winning doesn't really impact your stack. Calling and losing DOES impact your stack.

Good anaysis. Really torn here.

 

[Mesnik44]

Call, and then petition the TD to invoke a one round sit-out penalty on the villain for disclosing his hand.

I'm expecting a chop+ result here.

Opponent's stack size makes no difference to me -- if he has the 9d, he's betting for value, and not gonna risk blowing me off the hand.

Villain was reprimanded for exposing card and read the riot act along with the rules.

 

[saleen121212]

Most of the time when someone fakes strength by showing a card they are weak and trying to force a fold, kinda surprised at the results but I would still call everytime and in the long run probably be a good decision with a straight flush on the board

 

[WedgeRock]

Call, and then petition the TD to invoke a one round sit-out penalty on the villain for disclosing his hand.

Exactly this. Exposing a card in a tournament is not allowed.

 

[T_Chan]

Exposing the card was a whole other matter. For anyone who's played with me more than a few times, you know that I'm quite level headed. When he showed the hand I was as tilted as I get which involved muttering that it was a bit of a dick move to show the Ace. But in the end, poker's about deception. He walks the line with that kind of play. I was more upset about the hand than the exposing of the card.

I hindsight, through analysis and over analysis, I realized that him showing me the Ace was almost beneficial to me, except I failed to see it. Him showing me the ace is his way of baiting me, "I just have the Ace", or "I hit the flush on the turn, now it's just a chop". But knowing him (as mentioned before, we play together), I should have identified that he was baiting me and thus folded. But that's thinking about poker to the nth degree.

If he had not shown me the Ace, I probably still call. After showing me the ace, I think there's a higher chance of me folding if I was able to recognize the signs. Folding here is not a bad move at all, just sucks to lose the money in the pot that I think is normally a chop 19/20 times.

Thanks for the insight everyone.

 

[Lemonzest]

Thanks Tony. Very interesting hand to analyze that covers more than the basics of poker strategy and pot odds.

In friendly home games I love showing 1 card or also love it when others do it. It is fun to get people into a level war.

In general though I think when people show it is a definite sign of strength. Of course everyone is different. Personally, when I offer to show 1 card I am almost always way ahead.

 

[T_Chan]

I generally agree with that, however with that knowledge it can be used to manipulate. That's what I love about the game, trying to figure it all out.

 

[justsomedude]

Wow - solid 50-50 poll result. It doesn't get any closer than that.

 

[Pinball]

i am not an expert but I think it‘s a fold. It is in the early stage of a tourney and lost chips always hurt more than won chips do good. (ICM)

You are 100 BB deep so there i no reason to risk about half for winning approx. 3k

Fold and wait for a better situation. By the way fold pre is anyway the best play

 

[Pinball]

and there is no shame in folding

 

[Gobbs]

I saw the outcome already, but I still wanted to comment....

Set aside the etiquette and legality of showing a card for now; what showing that card tells me is very dependent on what he thinks about you. Obviously, he shows the to show that he had the nut flush on (at least) the turn. The question is, what does he think that will get you to do?

• Does he think showing it will get you to call because you will think he must have been playing the nut flush? If you believe he thinks you are a weak player, I'd assume that is his motive.
• Does he think showing it will get you to fold because you will think he only showed it to throw you off? If you believe he thinks you are a decent player, I'd assume that is his motive.
• Does he think showing it will get you to call because you will think he will think that he only showed it to throw you off? If you believe he thinks you are a strong player, I'd assume that is his motive.

We could go on, but you get the point...not knowing this information, I would not have been able to vote on the poll.

Also, as others have mentioned, unless you are the only two left in the tournament (not the hand, the whole tournament), showing a card when there is still action at the table is highly inappropriate. I hope he was warned not to do it again. (I also hope somebody warned you about playing crap hands UTG, but that's for another time...)