What is the Allure of Leaded Chips?? (5 Viewers)

[utgtrash]

I recently got a rack of pbcl $100 in good condition, and i'm not really sure i wouldn't rather have an excellent condition rack of ESPT $100. I'm assuming most people would much rather have the real leaded thing than the nagb version. They're both really excellent 100s to me, but i might rather have the ESPT since they're probably a bit cheaper and easier to get two or more racks of. (but if you have a rack of pbcl 100s I'd make an offer)

otherwise, I do find the pbcl has more of a "thud" as @Jeevansluck put it, which I prefer, and i don't have any justification except personal preference. For a number of reasons, leaded is "cooler" but i do need to like the actual chip for that to carry any weight. I also feel like, if it's RHC it really doesn't matter, but THC it matters to a point.

 

[allforcharity]

Leaded chips (in NA) are no longer being made because they can't be made due to health/manufacturing processes.

If someone had the wherewithal, they could set up a high lead content chip manufacturing facility in Bangladesh or some place that doesn’t give a shit about worker safety. Better yet, make it Chinese owned so they can spit out exact copies of those precious vintage chips.

 

[ssanel54]

As collectors you have to add the metric that no more leaded chips will be made. Period.

Just this fact alone would make something more desirable.

This was the comment that I was replying to. I do not agree with the statement "Just this fact alone would make something more desirable", as reinforced by numerous examples provided

When we discuss leaded chips (like when someone asks, "What is the allure of leaded chips??"), I think it's fair to say we're speaking in generalities.

As shared, leaded chips generally have more history, more nostalgia, wear better, arguably feel & sound better, and have a higher likelihood of shaped/textured inlays which are desired by many. They're not collected because they are no longer being made; rather the fact that they're no longer being made influences how (and yes, sometimes even why) we collect them.

This is not speaking in general, Older chips have more history, period. But this is also what I was curious about. Do people really care about Lead in chips or is it more the era of chips when they were still being produced with Lead

So when rating or contemplating a particular leaded chip or chipset, it is done so with the appreciation that a better one will never be made. This also makes it much more difficult to acquire leaded chips in the ideal color, condition, complete sets, whatever else a given collector seeks. It can be a serious challenge, which is easily and often summed up with the phrase, "They're not making any more of them." Because it's true.

In contrast, when the next closed casino chip is released, you can bet your bottom dollar that a cooler, cheaper, better condition, sharper label chip will come out next month. Why? Because they keep making unleaded chips! That is not a luxury for leaded collectors because leaded chips are no longer being made.

Use your same logic but apply it specifically to the Cleveland Horseshoe Chips vs. Jack Casino Cleveland (or whatever they rebranded as). One of those chips is never being made again, the other is readily available any time from the cage. Which is better?

I think it's safe to say that when comparing two equally defined, potentially equally desirable items, the one no longer being made will generally be more valuable than the one still being made.

I dont follow. your'e using Bold Print, but your point seems like the two items are not equally defined, one is made with Lead, the other is not? Generally speaking, Id say most equally defined, potentially equally desirable items, the discontinued and used models are less valuable.

 

[aggie]

This was the comment that I was replying to. I do not agree with the statement "Just this fact alone would make something more desirable", as reinforced by numerous examples provided

This is not speaking in general, Older chips have more history, period. But this is also what I was curious about. Do people really care about Lead in chips or is it more the era of chips when they were still being produced with Lead

Use your same logic but apply it specifically to the Cleveland Horseshoe Chips vs. Jack Casino Cleveland (or whatever they rebranded as). One of those chips is never being made again, the other is readily available any time from the cage. Which is better?

I dont follow. your'e using Bold Print, but your point seems like the two items are not equally defined, one is made with Lead, the other is not? Generally speaking, Id say most equally defined, potentially equally desirable items, the discontinued and used models are less valuable.

I’m gonna bow out. Your selective reading is unbearable. Cheers.

 

[ekricket]

If someone had the wherewithal, they could set up a high lead content chip manufacturing facility in Bangladesh or some place that doesn’t give a shit about worker safety.

They should build a factory in Mexico. Pretty sure worker safety, wages, and health are not a concern there, that’s the main rational for coming to the United States for work from what I hear.

 

[MatB]

Scott’s thread question is:

"What is the allure of leaded chips??

Allure
"the quality of being powerfully and mysteiously attractive or fascinating"

So really there doesn't have to be a 'right answer'
Any reason would be valid based on 'Allure' But some people do have reasons.
For some it's the feel. For some its the weight. For some it's the 'never being made again' factor.
For some, its all the above.

It does seem like the lens through which the question is being asked, ignores all the reasons people have said why they find them alluring.

Again, this is the point I’m trying to make. Just because something will never be made again, does not make it more desirable/collectible

In broad terms no. On an individual basis, absolutely it can. And does. Leaded chips is a case in point. (for some)

Not necessarily. They don't make paper or
cardboard chips any longer either, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make them desireable.

It has to be desireable to start with, before a fixed never-increasong supply starts to have an effect.

Same applies to Daves reply. IN broad terms no.
But Daves reply goes one step further to compare paper poker chips leaded Paulsons.??
I know Dave likes to fold a lot so maybe paper poker chips are his bag?????

 

[MatB]

Not necessarily. They don't make paper or
cardboard chips any longer either, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make them desireable.

It has to be desireable to start with, before a fixed never-increasong supply starts to have an effect.

And this is absolutely incorrect.

Unless you're talking about 1 of a kind or VERY limited runs of something, in EVERY field of collecting, most things start as common, or easily attainable things.

 

[ssanel54]

And this is absolutely incorrect.

Unless you're talking about 1 of a kind or VERY limited runs of something, in EVERY field of collecting, most things start as common, or easily attainable things.

A $100 casino chip starts with a value of $100. When it retires it’s value becomes $0 and in some cases much more obtainable to collectors

 

[MatB]

A $100 casino chip starts with a value of $100. When it retires it’s value becomes $0 and in some cases much more obtainable to collectors

This doesn't change my comment at all.
Where things started and when they became 'desirable' to collectors is irrelevant. Barring any relevant info on production/ provenance etc.

It would be typical for things that were no longer being made ($100 chip for instance) that were then sort after (perhaps a playable chip set from that casino) For that $100 chip to become desirable and then increasing in value for collectors.
Leaded or unleaded.
Now take all the playable sets out there and some people find they like the leaded Paulsons more.

I wasn't around for CT days when there were probably 150 active users and you could walk in to Spinettis and pick up a rack of Mapes $5s.

The chip collecting scene has grown and grown fast. Over 1000 active daily users here alone.

Collecting leaded playable sets is just another facet of this. And the allure is what ever people think it is.
Weight/ sound/ availability/ Never to be made again.etc etc etc.

 

[ssanel54]

This doesn't change my comment at all.
Where things started and when they became 'desirable' to collectors is irrelevant. Barring any relevant info on production/ provenance etc.

It would be typical for things that were no longer being made ($100 chip for instance) that were then sort after (perhaps a playable chip set from that casino) For that $100 chip to become desirable and then increasing in value for collectors.
Leaded or unleaded.
Now take all the playable sets out there and some people find they like the leaded Paulsons more.

I wasn't around for CT days when there were probably 150 active users and you could walk in to Spinettis and pick up a rack of Mapes $5s.

The chip collecting scene has grown and grown fast. Over 1000 active daily users here alone.

Collecting leaded playable sets is just another facet of this. And the allure is what ever people think it is.
Weight/ sound/ availability/ Never to be made again.etc etc etc.

I suppose easily obtainable is a subjective term depending on how much money you are willing to spend, for BOH collectors they are abundantly available at 20k per barrel, Much harder to find at $80, even though the price has decreased significantly when they stopped being produced.

I’m not dissmissing what others find alluring about leaded chips, but I still don’t fully understand the emphasis on the lead aspect of it. It’s not like leaded chips are rare, total quantities, there may be more leaded sets available to collectors than non leaded. Maybe more hoards will be found, maybe not, but agree, they probably won’t ever be manufactured again.

I honestly have no clue where all the “red headed stepchildren” of the leaded era have gone. Aztars, Empress, Outposts, were all available in mass quantity, but disappeared from the classifieds.

 

[upNdown]

total quantities, there may be more leaded sets available to collectors than non leaded.

That’s got to be a big no.
Paulson produced fully leaded chips for about 20 years. Late 70s to late 90s. And for most of that time period, there weren’t many casinos in the US. Mostly just Vegas and AC, right? And many/most of the Vegas chips were destroyed by law.
No, I’d wager that leaded chips represent a very low percentage of chips available to us. Like below 10% low.

 

[ssanel54]

That’s got to be a big no.
Paulson produced fully leaded chips for about 20 years. Late 70s to late 90s. And for most of that time period, there weren’t many casinos in the US. Mostly just Vegas and AC, right? And many/most of the Vegas chips were destroyed by law.
No, I’d wager that leaded chips represent a very low percentage of chips available to us. Like below 10% low.

I don’t know, and I was thinking all leaded chips made before formulas were changed, so TRK, BCC, Burt etc….. but there’s definitely more than vegas and AC and more than just the US. There’s all of the California leaded chips, Reno, Panhandle, Riverboats, Aztar, Connecticut, etc. And just because they are supposed to be destroyed, doesn’t mean that they don’t get found and eventually sold

 

[FDLmold]

There are significant quantities of leaded Paulsons from Canada, the Caribbean, and US states that had legal gambling before 1997. There are a few from other than those places, but not a lot.

 

[upNdown]

I don’t know, and I was thinking all leaded chips made before formulas were changed, so TRK, BCC, Burt etc….. but there’s definitely more than vegas and AC and more than just the US. There’s all of the California leaded chips, Reno, Panhandle, Riverboats, Aztar, Connecticut, etc. And just because they are supposed to be destroyed, doesn’t mean that they don’t get found and eventually sold

Sure, but if we’re considering percentages of existing chips, I can’t help but think that there are a whole lot more casinos now than there were 25 years ago. The industry kind of exploded, compared to what it used to be. And I’m guessing most of that explosion happened in the post-lead era.

And no, I’ve asked this question a few times before (here in this thread once) so I’m not sure, but I suspect that the only companies producing leaded compressed clay chips were Paulson for 20ish years and TRK for an uncertain time period and BCC for what like 10 minutes? I think those other companies all used unweighted clay or they weighted with materials that werent lead. But I’m not sure.

 

[ssanel54]

Sure, but if we’re considering percentages of existing chips, I can’t help but think that there are a whole lot more casinos now than there were 25 years ago. The industry kind of exploded, compared to what it used to be. And I’m guessing most of that explosion happened in the post-lead era.

There’s probably lots of factors to consider, including the fact that many of the newer casinos shifted away from clay chips altogether. With the Older chips, people have had a much longer time to collect them in playable quantity… even one chop at a time

 

[joshuagb]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717

 

[ChipEnvy]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717

When it was announced that Paulson (iirc pre-GPI) had cut lead from their chip formula, this information was widely posted on chiptalk. Leaded chips were less desireable than the newer fomula for a few years... then it became a non-issue... now you have the lead heads who somehow have convinced the world that leaded chips are superior.

 

[MeridianFC]

Not that this means anything but my recollection from CT days was that not many really cared (or cared that much) about leaded vs. unleaded. Part of the reason was you could still get Paulsons (of either stripe). IIRC outside of when the "Suits", "Paulson Chips", etc. molds started coming on the scene THC (of any stripe) was more sought after and of concern than clay formulation. Now that you can't get Paulsons (well except you can) the older/rarer Leaded are, probably rightly, more desired by many.

Though it can be very chip specific, in general I don't find enough of a difference in handling/sound/smell/vibes/aura between old leaded and new unleaded THC that it makes a great difference to me . Granted I'm old an feeble and my eyesight and nerves are so damaged from years of living sort of well that I might not have the wherewithal to notice something that is very significant to others.

As I said earlier I handled late 90s leaded hotstamps right next to unleaded current hot stamps and there was enough difference to make a difference. For me.

The big caveat here is I strongly prefer the textured inlays from the leaded period, but that's all about the mold not about whether or not there is lead in the chips. Also, in general leaded era chips tend to be heavier and I like that.

 

[pltrgyst]

Also, in general leaded era chips tend to be heavier...

Whoa, you ought to work for the government.

 

[MeridianFC]

Whoa, you ought to work for the government.

What makes you think I don't!

Uh, I don't.

It was the lead = heavy thing right?

 

[Thomacetti]

Like always, PCF can discuss about anything until the cows come home...

Leaded chips represent the best era in chip manufacturing due to the combination of weight, textured & shaped inlays, wear patern
These chips are better in every way a chip can be perceived.

The above combination of factors create a unique feel & sound...and that does matter.
Add limited supply and historic value (for some)...and you now understand why these chips require a premium.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Yes, lumping all of the old inlays into the same boat. Shaped, textured etc., I can see the appeal vs what is available today. But related to lead in chips it’s just transitive property > I like old inlays, old inlays are generally found on leaded chips, therefore I like leaded chips.

That’s what I’m asking, does the appeal have anything to do with lead itself, or other properties common on lead chip. Weight seems to vary either way.

Some people clearly prefer the softer feel. I am not sure I can feel the difference, and I’m not new to the game

I know I'm several days behind on this thread, so you have probably already heard 16 other answers to this. But as a fairly new chipper, at least new to Paulson chips, the feel of leaded chips in your hand is unmistakable. Not sure if it's precisely the presence of the lead, or mostly just the weight difference. But I would absolutely take an older, broken in set of leaded chips over mint, non leaded newer chips like the Tigers. All. Day. Long. It's hard to define "feel" but it's absolutely real.

 

[bergs]

I honestly have no clue where all the “red headed stepchildren” of the leaded era have gone. Aztars, Empress, Outposts, were all available in mass quantity, but disappeared from the classifieds.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as I got into Crystal Parks and really pining for a Vineyard set, almost pulled the trigger on a big spend on striped Aztar tourney chips, etc.

Where did all the old school chips go? Are there no perceived buyers and people just hang onto them and don’t even list them, or are they overseas (CONUS4LIFE) or ?

 

[Roslindale]

They taste good

 

[JustDave]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as I got into Crystal Parks and really pining for a Vineyard set, almost pulled the trigger on a big spend on striped Aztar tourney chips, etc.

Where did all the old school chips go? Are there no perceived buyers and people just hang onto them and don’t even list them, or are they overseas (CONUS4LIFE) or ?

trading hands only privately now a days?

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as I got into Crystal Parks and really pining for a Vineyard set, almost pulled the trigger on a big spend on striped Aztar tourney chips, etc.

Where did all the old school chips go? Are there no perceived buyers and people just hang onto them and don’t even list them, or are they overseas (CONUS4LIFE) or ?

 

[Jeevansluck]

View attachment 1105784

I was thinking the same thing. They got sucked into the great Beverly Hills vacuum!

 

[upNdown]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as I got into Crystal Parks and really pining for a Vineyard set, almost pulled the trigger on a big spend on striped Aztar tourney chips, etc.

Where did all the old school chips go? Are there no perceived buyers and people just hang onto them and don’t even list them, or are they overseas (CONUS4LIFE) or ?

Gone!
I noticed this after a year’s absence. When I returned at the end of 2019, ready to put together a new set, so many of the old standbys had dried up. I noticed it first with leaded THC $5s - orphan racks like Golden Eagles and Silver Palace used to get passed around constantly. GONE! Unavailable. But yeah, over the past couple of years so many of the sets that were commonly sold are rarely or sold. And there are a bunch of sets that used to be universally considered grails, but people who have been on this site for a year or two have probably never even heard of them. Because they’re that gone.
I don’t know where they all went. I miss seeing them.

 

[RocAFella1]

View attachment 1105784

I was thinking the same thing. They got sucked into the great Beverly Hills vacuum!

 

[upNdown]

View attachment 1105784

I was thinking the same thing. They got sucked into the great Beverly Hills vacuum!

Sure, some did. But like I said, things were drying up before that guy got here.