What is the Allure of Leaded Chips?? (4 Viewers)

[PhillyB]

And the allure of leaded chips is the feel of the chip and it’s weight in hand, like playing with coins and I don’t like playing with ritz crackers.

 

[BGinGA]

This guy @PhillyB says this. I have no reason to doubt him:
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A more accurate and documented description of historical Paulson chip lead content:

1975-1977: 0% (produced by Burt Co.)
1977-1998: 40%-45% avg lead content
1998-2005: lead content systematically reduced on a color-by-color basis, with several colors (5 or 6) still at ~40%+ lead
2005-2007: lead content reduced on remaining high-lead content colors
2007-current: all colors at 0.5% lead content

I have never seen any documentation produced supporting claims of any chips containing 6%-10% lead (although it's possible), or that the formula was changed across the board in 2011 to 0% lead (and such a massive simultaneous formula switch seems very unlikely).

 

[mipevi]

Is "leaded" just a new category to justify higher prices?

Kind of, IMO. While I'm sure there were already people looking for mainly leaded chips even earlier, to me a shift occurred after the first NAGB chips came to the secondary market at increasingly higher prices. I never bought any and was one of the salty people to point out differences between them and some older, real boat chips LOL. While the leaded chip pricing took a long time to catch up, that's when I think the whole leaded category really became a more widely acknowledged thing.

There certainly are real benefits to having leaded clays as people have testified, but personally I prefer my clay chips in the 8-9 gram range (with textured inlays). Heavier than that I gravitate towards high end plastics over clays.

 

[PhillyB]

A more accurate and documented description of historical Paulson chip lead content:

1975-1977: 0% (produced by Burt Co.)
1977-1998: 40%-45% avg lead content
1998-2005: lead content systematically reduced on a color-by-color basis, with several colors (5 or 6) still at ~40%+ lead
2005-2007: lead content reduced on remaining high-lead content colors
2007-current: all colors at 0.5% lead content

I have never seen any documentation produced supporting claims of any chips containing 6%-10% lead (although it's possible), or that the formula was changed across the board in 2011 to 0% lead (and such a massive simultaneous formula switch seems very unlikely).

there is documentation of health authorities testing chips at 0.005% actually so they did not remain at .5 and they were forced to make it the state limit at 0.003% lead. And they tested chips at 45,47, 50% and above and so did I, so 45%? it’s not cut and dry like that, some colors had less and some more but most were 45% back then yes but I’m talking range 60-40% average. I said start of Paulson not the Burt co changed over, we are talking about start of leaded chip from Paulson not THC mold(CJ), it’s company, Bud Jones leaving, Start of TRK etc, irrelevant. This lead thing has a lot of variance and what I tell people is that it’s not whether it’s leaded or not, it’s a matter of how much. Also there is a statement of their chips by the company that they are lead free(below) and I tested new chips and nothing, also chips made and bought in 2006/2007 have contained high levels of lead, clearly produced in 2005/2006.

Example the Diamond Jack chips for sale soon weigh 10+ grams for tournament rhc chips, those chips were produced in 2005 clearly since casino opened in 2006 summer, so the .5% limit right?! No, 10+ grams is highly leaded esp being rhc and the cash chips weigh in the high 9 grams most of them in which these same colors nowadays are the high 8’s low 9’s. Which makes them moderately leaded.

I know you know your stuff, you’ve been around and I have seen you at Chiptalk but this is the truth about it.

 

[ssanel54]

Thanks @PhillyB that’s very informative. So a general rule of thumb would be any Paulson chip manufactured before 2007 would be considered leaded, including most of the home market chips?

 

[ssanel54]

Interestingly, my heaviest chips are suits molds.

 

[PhillyB]

Thanks @PhillyB that’s very informative. So a general rule of thumb would be any Paulson chip manufactured before 2007 would be considered leaded, including most of the home market chips?

Correct, majority being leaded where weight, durability and feel make a difference as opposed to new Paulson chips but some colors will have a smaller amount than the decrease they made in 1998-2006/2007. I love casino chips period, but for playability I like them heavily leaded to moderately.
As you play with chips from different eras you can feel the difference too, Diamond Jack will not feel like Jack casino and HSI chips nor will Diamond Jack feel like majestic star(red denom) or say LCO, thc Outpost chips etc as they have more lead.

 

[BGinGA]

there is documentation of health authorities testing chips at 0.005% actually so they did not remain at .5 and they were forced to make it the state limit at 0.003% lead. And they tested chips at 45,47, 50% and above and so did I, so 45%? it’s not cut and dry like that, some colors had less and some more but most were 45% back then yes but I’m talking range 60-40% average. I said start of Paulson not the Burt co changed over, we are talking about start of leaded chip from Paulson not THC mold(CJ), it’s company, Bud Jones leaving, Start of TRK etc, irrelevant. This lead thing has a lot of variance and what I tell people is that it’s not whether it’s leaded or not, it’s a matter of how much. Also there is a statement of their chips by the company that they are lead free(below) and I tested new chips and nothing, also chips made and bought in 2006/2007 have contained high levels of lead, clearly produced in 2005/2006.

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Example the Diamond Jack chips for sale soon weigh 10+ grams for tournament rhc chips, those chips were produced in 2005 clearly since casino opened in 2006 summer, so the .5% limit right?! No, 10+ grams is highly leaded esp being rhc and the cash chips weigh in the high 9 grams most of them in which these same colors nowadays are the high 8’s low 9’s. Which makes them moderately leaded.
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I know you know your stuff, you’ve been around and I have seen you at Chiptalk but this is the truth about it.

Your data is flawed, as are your conclusions.

 

[PhillyB]

Your data is flawed, as are your conclusions.

ok

 

[coolcustomer123]

TR King quality was different for Nevada vs California? Or was it different for Casino vs card room (based on the amount of chips ordered)

Golden Slot Club $25 - issued 1955 Las Vegas, Nevada
Yellow with blue

Hal Mar Inn $5 - issued 1961 Delano, California
Yellow with Turquoise

 

[softchewy]

A more accurate and documented description of historical Paulson chip lead content:

1975-1977: 0% (produced by Burt Co.)
1977-1998: 40%-45% avg lead content
1998-2005: lead content systematically reduced on a color-by-color basis, with several colors (5 or 6) still at ~40%+ lead
2005-2007: lead content reduced on remaining high-lead content colors
2007-current: all colors at 0.5% lead content

I have never seen any documentation produced supporting claims of any chips containing 6%-10% lead (although it's possible), or that the formula was changed across the board in 2011 to 0% lead (and such a massive simultaneous formula switch seems very unlikely).

so basically all Paulsons after Burt Co are leaded?

some old info I had (don't know the original source):

Paulson lead content:
- pre '98 most colors were 47% lead (by weight)
- '98-'06 most colors were >1% lead (except for 7 colors which were still the old 47%)
- post '06 basically zero lead
Officially, the colors that still had 47% lead between '98-'05 were:
Blurple, Day green, Fuchsia, Indian Blue, Metallic Gold, Metallic Silver

(I realize it says 7 colors and only lists 6... info as I received it - not sure if the 7th color was left off/unknown or 6 is correct)

edit: per @BGinGA, 7th color was Royal Blue

 

[FDLmold]

TR King quality was different for Nevada vs California? Or was it different for Casino vs card room (based on the amount of chips ordered)

I'm going to guess that the customer had the option for "regular weight" or "heavy weight" chips. That was common with a couple other manufacturers, so maybe TR King did that too. 9g vs 12g for the same color same edgespots same timeframe is a huge difference.

 

[wickedwonka121]

Ask the wife. Something about how she likes how heavy it feels in her hands.

 

[Jeevansluck]

Ask the wife. Something about how she likes how heavy it feels in her hands.

 

[72o]

I'm going to guess that the customer had the option for "regular weight" or "heavy weight" chips. That was common with a couple other manufacturers, so maybe TR King did that too. 9g vs 12g for the same color same edgespots same timeframe is a huge difference.

I believe that is correct. Lnlsales on eBay sold some weighted and nonweighted/regular TRK samples last month.

 

[coolcustomer123]

I'm going to guess that the customer had the option for "regular weight" or "heavy weight" chips. That was common with a couple other manufacturers, so maybe TR King did that too. 9g vs 12g for the same color same edgespots same timeframe is a huge difference.

Noticed this just now on ChipGuide

Golden Slot Club (crown dash weighted)

Image from ChipGuide

Hal Mar Inn (Looks like regular weight)

Image from ChipGuide


At first Glance Golden West Club also appears to be regular chip?
Golden West Club - $1965 California

I get that this is a different color but 12+ grams? Doesn't say weighted in the order. I will try to find other yellow TRK from the same era with similar spot pattern. I have a Comanche club $5 and maybe a Marina Club chip somewhere in the sample stash.

 

[BGinGA]

so basically all Paulsons after Burt Co are leaded?
View attachment 1107665

some old info I had (don't know the original source):

Paulson lead content:
- pre '98 most colors were 47% lead (by weight)
- '98-'06 most colors were >1% lead (except for 7 colors which were still the old 47%)
- post '06 basically zero lead
Officially, the colors that still had 47% lead between '98-'05 were:
Blurple, Day green, Fuchsia, Indian Blue, Metallic Gold, Metallic Silver

(I realize it says 7 colors and only lists 6... info as I received it - not sure if the 7th color was left off/unknown or 6 is correct)

The 7th color was Royal Blue, which was discontinued.

 

[ovo]

Even with all the records and testing done these days, there is still the unknown factor. What happened on the day the chips were made ? Did someone press the wrong button and opened up the flood gates of lead ? Or did someone write the order down in error ? And maybe they knew their error, but it's 1961 and why would it affect people in 2023

 

[Okku]

I like lead

 

[PhillyB]

Even with all the records and testing done these days, there is still the unknown factor. What happened on the day the chips were made ? Did someone press the wrong button and opened up the flood gates of lead ? Or did someone write the order down in error ? And maybe they knew their error, but it's 1961 and why would it affect people in 2023

I’m glad you said that, didn’t want to further explain to anyone, they get it, they get it, they don’t, not my problem, was exactly my point, it varied, it wasn’t cut and dry those amounts and what they(GPI) said in article’s wasn’t accurate.
I tested chips as I work in ballistics and deal with lead every day and my previous post I explained what my results were on average.

98 - before 60%-40% very few being out of those ranges 38% and some 61%
1998 to 2006/2007 some still averaging 45% with most 10-6%
2007-2011 0.5-0.005% average range, after 2011 nothing

This is a multi million dollar company’s testing procedure and equipment for my own proof not words of some guy on a forum, and I relayed the results I got, they accept it or not don’t care.

Though I would love to get colors from all eras(not just Paulson) and test them individually but that’s extensive and I do not get paid for that.

 

[louBdub]

Interestingly, my heaviest chips are suits molds.
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This post should be it’s own thread!

Does a thread like this exist???? Just Barrels on scales?

 

[PhillyB]

This post should be it’s own thread!

Does a thread like this exist???? Just Barrels on scales?

That would nice to see, could also have a thread for chip weights from each casino and it’s denoms, it would be interesting and resourceful.

 

[louBdub]

That would nice to see, could also have a thread for chip weights from each casino and it’s denoms, it would be interesting and resourceful.

I nominate you to create it.

You seem pretty leaded up in the info this far haha.

 

[PhillyB]

I nominate you to create it.

You seem pretty leaded up in the info this far haha.

Well would be nice to first see what they weigh as some people like heavy and some don’t. I wish I had the time to do that and I don’t have all the chips so community collective I think is best. Lots of guys here have tons of sample sets, I have quite a few but I’m not really much of a sample collector. Leaded up, that’s for sure haha

 

[Darson]

I'm confused by these %lead numbers. So I bust out the spreadsheet:

And I added in 40mm plastic sluggers for fun. I know I'm making a bunch of assumptions but 40% lead would be a very heavy chip!

 

[ssanel54]

I like lead

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Those DO chips are leaded though correct? It’s a comparison of TRK weight to Paulson? I can really tell in the pic, but assuming those are stacks of 10?

 

[bernielomax]

Ok, I found someone though a family member that has a Niton XRF scanner gun who has agreed to let me scan some chips. I don't have much for lead chips to have scanned. Does anyone have any interest in sending me some singles on popular sets to be tested? (scanner is in Iowa, so it may be a few months before I get back)

 

[Okku]

Those DO chips are leaded though correct? It’s a comparison of TRK weight to Paulson? I can really tell in the pic, but assuming those are stacks of 10?

Correct, Desert Oasis pic is a stack of 10. Everything was stacks of 10 in the pictures.

 

[Okku]

I like lead

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I've noticed a notable difference between leaded TRKs and Paulsons. TRK did things right!

 

[softchewy]

I'm confused by these %lead numbers. So I bust out the spreadsheet:

View attachment 1107938

And I added in 40mm plastic sluggers for fun. I know I'm making a bunch of assumptions but 40% lead would be a very heavy chip!

my understanding is the % is by weight (lead accounts for 40% of the chips weight)