1/3 NL hand at Aria (1 Viewer)

[Perthmike]

All 2 pair+ hands. Big combo hands like A6cc, flopped straight. Low coordinated flops hit a preflop callers range a lot more than a preflop raises range. They are more likely to check back for pot control, especially multi way. I want to get them to put money in while they feel they may have the best hand.

And single pairs, flush draws, straight draws in your check call range?

A lot of donks in my local games are usually from nits that hit big, so I worry it would look too strong in a multiway pot. I'll give it a try though.

 

[Rhodeman77]

And single pairs, flush draws, straight draws in your check call range?

A lot of donks in my local games are usually from nits that hit big, so I worry it would look too strong in a multiway pot. I'll give it a try though.

Have you even seen anyone fold Aces or Kings to a single bet? I haven’t. But if you check here and they check back and a scare card comes that puts 4 to a straight or the flush they can find that fold much easier now.

 

[Perthmike]

Have you even seen anyone fold Aces or Kings to a single bet? I haven’t. But if you check here and they check back and a scare card comes that puts 4 to a straight or the flush they can find that fold much easier now.

That's true, but then I don't know anyone that I expect would check aces or king's if checked to either. I suppose multiway, a C bet with air is less likely, so a donk makes more sense.

Are we donking multiway, but checking in a heads up pot?

 

[Rhodeman77]

That's true, but then I don't know anyone that I expect would check aces or king's if checked to either. I suppose multiway, a C bet with air is less likely, so a donk makes more sense.

Are we donking multiway, but checking in a heads up pot?

I still would most likely donk bet heads up. Scare cards are still scare cards. Heads up or multi way.

Look how sticky payback was with QQ in this hand. If a scare card has come he probably is able to get away from it. Even though his villain has position he pushes the action early to get as much money in while he figured he had the best hand and scare card would kill his action.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/pahwm-2-5-10-qq.43127/

 

[Leonard]

Never fold here. The decision is call vs shove.

 

[Mike Wells]

Never folding our well-disguised boat there. We're beating too many hands. Only one I'm really worried about is 8-7. And I don't second-guess it for a second. That's just a cooler.

 

[Frogzilla]

Can anyone else find a fold here ??

The exploitative river bet/fold is supposed to print money live low stakes because so few people are bluff-raising rivers.

However, there is 4-to-a-straight and a flush draw. Villain could be doing this with a flush trying to get value from a 6 with that bet size. I call this off every time. Coolered.

 

[Riomaa]

You're losing to a lot of hands that are easily in villain's range. If she's as respectable of a player as you've portrayed her to be, she's not doing that without a boat. You're only getting 3:1. I think you should have found your fold. I also think you also should have bet the flop and found a fold on the turn.

That said, I'm calling/re-raising this on players that are more loose/creative or maybe new players that I haven't figured out yet.

 

[BukNaked36]

Unless my read of villain is total NIT, I'm all in on the river. A lot of players are definitely going to think a flush is good here and probably a str8 too. Many more combos of that than boat over boat. You basically went down set over set at 133 BB deep. So good read to not lose it all. I think a fold would be a really tight hero play.

I like a smallish lead bet on the flop to look like you're trying to draw cheap or buy a pot on a low wet board - say $20, and pray for a raise from V2.

 

[Moxie Mike]

FWIW, I think V1 played this hand pretty badly. She could have gotten her stack as a huge favorite with a big check raise against 2 opponents. Instead she flats a c-bet and a cold call, only to have a gross turn card kill her action. The river bailed her out - and she was fortunate to get paid off. Her remark that she didn't shove because she was worried about the SF highly suggests that she might be 'competent' as you say, but this level of risk aversion is probably not indicative of a formidable opponent. In this hand, she probably flats your river bet with a straight or a flush, so it's advisable to not pay her off again.

As to donk betting in general. Sometimes it's the best play even if it kills your action. Check raising is better for obvious reasons, but there's no guarantee the PF raiser will C-bet. In this scenario, any 3, 6, 8 or club (~20 cards) is cause for concern... and you're OOP to boot.

I think the fact she just raised and didn't go all in influenced my call too. Had she shoved I might have found a reluctant fold.

Folding the under-full is too weak tight even for an all-in bet. I wouldn't spend much time pondering how you could have 'found a fold' there... set over set flops in Holdem are very uncommon - and when they do you're just going to lose chips. As Esfandiari likes to say, 'when the deck does not want you to win, you're not going to win.'