Best Way to Identify Positive/Negative Interactions (2 Viewers)

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

I’m curious to hear the impetus behind the decision to nuke that thread.

Total unacceptable BS

 

[BarrieJ3]

Appreciate the openness here regarding moderation, and I knew when I posted what I wrote it would probably get modded and I accept that.

That said, I would have zero problem telling a flipper to fuck straight off in real life F2F. No issue whatsoever. Not naming names, but they’re bottom feeding scumbags trying to literally inject themselves in between a hobbyist seller and hobbyist buyer to turn a buck. They add zero value, they just add cost.

It will forever baffle me why some members take a laissez-faire attitude towards repeated flippers. It doesn’t nothing but chase members out of the hobby, new and old alike.

This makes no sense. People looking to buy and sell, with no concern at all for your hobby, is going to drive part of the experience. People always struggle to draw correlations between our niche hobby and another similar one - because when this many people and this much money becomes involved, it continues to draw and grow (and not everyone that comes will be like you and I).

It's these statements like yours that embolden the other behaviors going on and treatment of new chippers who are being lambasted in private messages.

At this point, we've grown so quickly and surpassed administration's ability to control, that there probably isn't a turn back the clock method. When Tommy puts his foot down and posts

I haven't seen one rude, insulting post from @ChipGuide towards anyone here, yet many are doing just the opposite towards them. It's OK to disagree with someone's point of view but not in the manner that some are. I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.

and you and BGinGA follow that up with continued insults to that user down thread, and Tommy continues to not mod or temp ban anything, despite his "last warning", then we are where we are.

I know my viewpoint makes me more enemies than friends, and I too am guilty of saying or eneacting in ways that are opposite my own view.

But member actions and moderation have driven us to this point, and comments like yours above hurts more than helps. You often come from a zero sum policy and scorched earth implementation, which I don't think is what will see us back to a happy medium.

Assuming you will blast me in retort, but the funny part is, if we are only considering personal view points and values for PCF, we're probably identical.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Whelp got to the 2nd page before it turned into the same as every other thread before it.

I have no clue how the majority of PCF feels. Those willing to speak seem to want to help provide change or help out or whatever.

Rules don’t seem to help, we can talk about “keyboard warriors” but it’s happening more and more frequently - see Chipguide thread or others this year alone. Not sure why modding and banning doesn’t exist for long term chippers who ignore Admin threats, I.e. “I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.”

I don’t reach out or solicit any feedback at all, yet have had two new chippers just this week alone reach out asking how to deal with unwanted aggressiveness in their PMs.

Either change will occur on this forum, or the shit shows will grow to be much worse.

Happy Easter y’all, see you at The Continental!

I’m having an open and honest conversation with another chipper whom I have lots of respect for. I’m a pretty open book when it comes to this forum and much of life for that matter.
I realize that in todays day and age, the TRUTH is too much for some to handle, too bad! I’m not changing my ways at this point in life.

The hypocrisy comment wasn’t directed at anyone in particular and certainly not at you.

I don’t have the time (maybe the patience also) to spend hours and hours over years putting a set together. Particularly given my limited experience trying to do that, and when some others find out what I’m looking, they snatch up the chips I want and then try to gouge me. Screw that.

But I have noticed that a few people have been helped by this community in putting “forever” sets like that together, often getting hard to find chips at “friend prices.” Things don’t always last “forever” when large dollars are offered … just saying.

I totally understand your position David and my comments about patience and such wasn’t directed at you either. There’s a lot of luck involved and being in the right place at the right time also.
Lots of times you have to work with your competitors so hopefully they’ll intern work with you. That involves building relationships with people and takes lots of time.

I know exactly what you mean about others intentionally snatching up things your working on to intern hold over your head, it’s BULLSHIT!
Can’t stand those types and I personally try and avoid having to do any business with them at all. I have no problem calling out their BS but I’ve been warned I need to cool it a bit. Apparently Mr. Rodgers gifs hurt feelings around here.

And hey,
Your someone I owe a huge thank you to, couldn’t have gotten my most prized set to completion without our trade.
Thanks again for the help with that my friend.

 

[upNdown]

The hypocrisy comment wasn’t directed at anyone in particular and certainly not at you.

I don’t have the time (maybe the patience also) to spend hours and hours over years putting a set together. Particularly given my limited experience trying to do that, and when some others find out what I’m looking, they snatch up the chips I want and then try to gouge me. Screw that.

But I have noticed that a few people have been helped by this community in putting “forever” sets like that together, often getting hard to find chips at “friend prices.” Things don’t always last “forever” when large dollars are offered … just saying.

I guess I’m guilty of this times two. But hypocrisy isn’t really fair. So I’ll explain.

When I put together the grand casino Gulfport set, I definitely got a lot of help from the community. It was very cool. I only sold it when I went busto in real life. I sold off all my chips and most of them at cost. The Gulfports I actually did auction because it’s tough putting a value on a set built from singles when you figure in shipping and all that. (And FWIW, the money I got for them in 2018 is a pittance today.) After I sold everything, I disappeared from this site and from poker for a year. So it wasn’t exactly a cash grab, as much as a lifestyle change, you know?

Then shortly after I came back, I started building the Foxwoods set, one chip at a time. Again, I got a lot of help from the community, and again, it was really, cool. And I’m pretty sure I said I’d never sell it. And I’m pretty sure I meant it at the time. But once I got my home game off the ground after Covid, I realized that the Foxwoods just weren’t going to cut it. I needed (wanted) more $5 chips and that just wasn’t going to happen in a matter of months or even years. So I sold those. This time I picked a fair price and sold then to a local friend. So again, not intentional, not a cash grab, and not hypocrisy. At least not in my mind.

Why am I babbling on about my life story, in response to a comment that might not even have been directed toward me? Because I do feel like this is a community, I do appreciate the community, and despite being a loudmouth contrarian, I do care what people here think of me. And I happen to agree with some of Tuna’s sentiment - building a set slowly over the years is a really cool way to participate in this hobby and at least for me, it’s never been a cash grab.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I need to start selling pitchforks again.

 

[ekricket]

When you sell something put a post at the end before you close it detailing the amount sold for and to who.
Or at least quit deleting the prices and items when sold.
Something like this would help someone do a search on sold items before they buy something if they had questions.

 

[ekricket]

we've grown so quickly and surpassed administration's ability to control,

???? We shouldn’t rely on rules to treat each other civil and do the right thing. If people need rules to control their behavior to each other, well, get better people.
And if you are relying on rules to make people behave better, well, good luck with that.

Bad people do bad things no matter what the rules are.

 

[bergs]

This makes no sense. People looking to buy and sell, with no concern at all for your hobby, is going to drive part of the experience. People always struggle to draw correlations between our niche hobby and another similar one - because when this many people and this much money becomes involved, it continues to draw and grow (and not everyone that comes will be like you and I).

It's these statements like yours that embolden the other behaviors going on and treatment of new chippers who are being lambasted in private messages.

At this point, we've grown so quickly and surpassed administration's ability to control, that there probably isn't a turn back the clock method. When Tommy puts his foot down and posts

and you and BGinGA follow that up with continued insults to that user down thread, and Tommy continues to not mod or temp ban anything, despite his "last warning", then we are where we are.

I know my viewpoint makes me more enemies than friends, and I too am guilty of saying or eneacting in ways that are opposite my own view.

But member actions and moderation have driven us to this point, and comments like yours above hurts more than helps. You often come from a zero sum policy and scorched earth implementation, which I don't think is what will see us back to a happy medium.

Assuming you will blast me in retort, but the funny part is, if we are only considering personal view points and values for PCF, we're probably identical.

Wait, wat? I’m the reason flippers get away with flipping?!? If I misread that, I’m not sure what the purpose of your post is beyond the fact that I’m a real derisive dickhead to flippers (and have been for, oh, 12 years).

 

[upNdown]

When you sell something put a post at the end before you close it detailing the amount sold for and to who.
Or at least quit deleting the prices and items when sold.
Something like this would help someone do a search on sold items before they buy something if they had questions.

That’s the one that makes me insane. For a hobby with no book values for anything, the only thing we have to rely on is part sales. Deleting prices after sales is a shit move in my opinion. If the only thing you have to give back to the community is a record of a transaction, that’s a whole lot better than nothing.

 

[bergs]

Assuming you will blast me in retort, but the funny part is, if we are only considering personal view points and values for PCF, we're probably identical.

Almost forgot….

Yeah, you’re a horrible human being who likes to beat on helpless old people and defenseless potatoes.

 

[bergs]

Anyone else miss the days when the biggest shit-slinging flipper was Silks and he was like the only one so it was so easy to pile on him?

Now I’m feeling like Jack talking about the multiple untrustworthy guys in his crew…

 

[BarrieJ3]

???? We shouldn’t rely on rules to treat each other civil and do the right thing. If people need rules to control their behavior to each other, well, get better people.
And if you are relying on rules to make people behave better, well, good luck with that.

Bad people do bad things no matter what the rules are.

I.....don't get it. I'm saying that we need a balanced and understood set of rules and even keeled enforcement of them.

Then you say, we need rules to behave!? Get better people! What's your suggestion here? Get rid of the rules. Have public outcry determine weeding of members. What is it?

Wait, wat? I’m the reason flippers get away with flipping?!? If I misread that, I’m not sure what the purpose of your post is beyond the fact that I’m a real derisive dickhead to flippers (and have been for, oh, 12 years).

Of course not. But we're part of a larger ecosystem and when people see us battering folks, they think of look bergs is hilarious and does it, let me go attack this new chipper in PMs.

It often looks like what the most vocal members are describing is a socially determined moderation, if any, and control of members. With a unique, niche, and such focused hobby/interest, I don't necessarily think that's the worst option. The only two directions from there would either be to have a subsection of this site that is opt in only where vetted and agreed upon chippers would enter and engage in that sub market and forum. The other option would be to have a tertiary site where those same chippers could engage in sales. I love both of those as I could just openly list chips with no concern.

Similar to the old donkey one, except not created out of angst or distaste for PCF or how it's run. Not sure if I'm reading people right, but that seems to be the jist and potential solutions.

 

[BarrieJ3]

When you sell something put a post at the end before you close it detailing the amount sold for and to who.
Or at least quit deleting the prices and items when sold.
Something like this would help someone do a search on sold items before they buy something if they had questions.

That’s the one that makes me insane. For a hobby with no book values for anything, the only thing we have to rely on is part sales. Deleting prices after sales is a shit move in my opinion. If the only thing you have to give back to the community is a record of a transaction, that’s a whole lot better than nothing.

We need some early adopters, high volume sellers, and lighthouse members to do it. It's so rare that a sale sold privately or pm gets information added.

Push for it. Ask why not when people don't add it, or ask on open classifieds if it sold and for how much.

I was in an absolute daze when I joined and couldn't find any information on pricing. Made an attempt at making this the norm, but maybe people really don't care about pricing/market. Maybe......maybe it's just so the same 40 of us who are so vocal about it in an echo chamber, and maybe no one else really actually cares? Food for thought.

 

[DMack]

I know exactly what you mean about others intentionally snatching up things you’re working on to intern hold over your head, it’s BULLSHIT!

Heck, this is how everyone’s favorite eBay vendor makes his killing. It’s disgusting. Openly talks about hating RHC chips, somebody posts a want ad for an obscure, cheap, RHC chip, and there he is bidding them to the moon. It’s happened so many times that one can’t keep track. Word has definitely made its way around about him (he was a dolphin from the second he joined), but some are still willing to be fooled.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Heck, this is how everyone’s favorite eBay vendor makes his killing. It’s disgusting. Openly talks about hating RHC chips, somebody posts a want ad for an obscure, cheap, RHC chip, and there he is bidding them to the moon. It’s happened so many times that one can’t keep track. Word has definitely made its way around about him (he was a dolphin from the second he joined), but some are still willing to be fooled.

It makes being retired from acquiring sets so much sweeter not having to deal with that crap.
The biggest problem is that turds attract other turds trying to be even bigger turds than the 1 turd everyone already knows about.
Before too long you have an entire network of turds competing to see who can take the biggest shit on the community. Kinda like where we’ve been for awhile now and it all starts with that one turd.

 

[bergs]

I.....don't get it. I'm saying that we need a balanced and understood set of rules and even keeled enforcement of them.

Then you say, we need rules to behave!? Get better people! What's your suggestion here? Get rid of the rules. Have public outcry determine weeding of members. What is it?

Of course not. But we're part of a larger ecosystem and when people see us battering folks, they think of look bergs is hilarious and does it, let me go attack this new chipper in PMs.

It often looks like what the most vocal members are describing is a socially determined moderation, if any, and control of members. With a unique, niche, and such focused hobby/interest, I don't necessarily think that's the worst option. The only two directions from there would either be to have a subsection of this site that is opt in only where vetted and agreed upon chippers would enter and engage in that sub market and forum. The other option would be to have a tertiary site where those same chippers could engage in sales. I love both of those as I could just openly list chips with no concern.

Similar to the old donkey one, except not created out of angst or distaste for PCF or how it's run. Not sure if I'm reading people right, but that seems to be the jist and potential solutions.

I don’t attack people in PMs. I do it right out in the open. And for good reason - they fundamentally prevent hobbyists from getting chips at a more affordable price without adding ANY value.

How do my public attacks specifically on flippers in public forums - which has been going on since before Ten started charging for memberships on the blue wall - inspire people to attack other new members via PM?

I don’t mean to attack you (grin), but this might be the dumbest take I’ve heard in a long time. I doubt I’m that inspiring to anyone.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I don’t attack people in PMs. I do it right out in the open. And for good reason - they fundamentally prevent hobbyists from getting chips at a more affordable price without adding ANY value.

How do my public attacks specifically on flippers in public forums - which has been going on since before Ten started charging for memberships on the blue wall - inspire people to attack other new members via PM?

I don’t mean to attack you (grin), but this might be the dumbest take I’ve heard in a long time. I doubt I’m that inspiring to anyone.

I think your a soft little fella. So cute and kind.

We need to make a Beckett of chip prices. With little arrows showing trends.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I don’t attack people in PMs. I do it right out in the open. And for good reason - they fundamentally prevent hobbyists from getting chips at a more affordable price without adding ANY value.

How do my public attacks specifically on flippers in public forums - which has been going on since before Ten started charging for memberships on the blue wall - inspire people to attack other new members via PM?

I don’t mean to attack you (grin), but this might be the dumbest take I’ve heard in a long time. I doubt I’m that inspiring to anyone.

People see long term, well known, high volume submitters gunning people down.

You don’t think that empowers them to also be PCF police?

I understand your motive and actions. You weren’t here for prebanned Barrie, who had a field day with well-known flippers. I’m just saying, not everyone has the same panache and understanding that you do. I can’t imagine ever being someone who tries to sink a NAGB or PMing trash talk to someone, but it happens, and in the later example more frequently as of recent.

Maybe we don’t have any effect, but more likely it’s somewhere in the middle. To say it’s a dumb take is over the top, don’t act like everyone doesn’t want to be part of the Cool Kids Club!

 

[ekricket]

Then you say, we need rules to behave!? Get better people! What's your suggestion here? Get rid of the rules. Have public outcry determine weeding of members. What is it?

I’m just saying people have to decide to be better, and no amount of rules is going to make a difference. You don’t have teenagers yet, but some day you will experience this. You have to make them “want” to be better, not “make them better by restriction”.

to have a subsection of this site that is opt in only where vetted and agreed upon chippers would enter and engage in that sub market and forum.

This would be The Chip Board thing.

other option would be to have a tertiary site where those same chippers could engage in sales.

This is PCF

There are other chipping boards out there. No need to revolutionize this one in particular.

 

[bergs]

People see long term, well known, high volume submitters gunning people down.

When it comes to flippers, I hope they’re inspired to give them shit too. It’s better for everyone.

You don’t think that empowers them to also be PCF police?

No. Not even remotely. I might be vilified by some people here, and not by others, but Jesus Christ, anybody who idolizes me and would feel empowered by anything I do needs to have their head checked. This is actually hilarious. Maybe I’ll start my own organization and call it something like Temper Knights (like the Templar Knights, but angrier).

I understand your motive and actions. You weren’t here for prebanned Barrie,

I kept tabs. A fisherman always sees another fisherman from afar (doffs cap).

who had a field day with well-known flippers. I’m just saying, not everyone has the same panache and understanding that you do. I can’t imagine ever being someone who tries to sink a NAGB or PMing trash talk to someone, but it happens, and in the later example more frequently as of recent.

Going after flippers doesn’t inspire people to be general assholes to people. The people doing what you’re describing aren’t paying attention to me or anyone else.

Maybe we don’t have any effect, but more likely it’s somewhere in the middle. To say it’s a dumb take is over the top, don’t act like everyone doesn’t want to be part of the Cool Kids Club!

I think we established a long, long time ago that if there is or ever was a cool kids club, I’m not in it.

Ironic that I slayed Gematria but my crusade against flippers has people from every side of the PCF spectrum wanting it to stop.

Your position seems to be “be nice to everyone and take it up the butt”. I give you credit for having the patience of a saint, the zen of a monk, and the rectum of the Holland Tunnel, but I just can’t do that, I guess.

On the other hand, I’m not really in the chip market any more per se - I’ve got 98% of what I want. I could just stand down and just eat popcorn on the sidelines and make potato jokes with Josh. Potato jokes never get old - unlike potatoes, which apparently do.

 

[bergs]

I think your a soft little fella. So cute and kind.

We need to make a Beckett of chip prices. With little arrows showing trends.

I’m just here for the arrows.

 

[bergs]

I’m just here for the arrows.

I fear that my patent popularity here has just created a legion of archers. For the record, I am against shooting people with arrows.

 

[Machine]

the TRUTH is too much for some to handle

“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.”​

― Thomas Paine

 

[Pony]

I remembers a bit about the old thread, didn't see or get into the last bit. Also am NOT a long-time member.

• I've purchased chips here; singles, lots, racks, sets. I know there has been chips I've overpaid for, and chips I've gotten a deal on. That is expected
• Most of the time I miss out on a good deal or a chip I'm searching for 'cause Work is a 4-letter word that draws my attention most days, and there are those that have the luxury of being here most all the time
• I've seen some sales that were scooped up ASAP, and then those same chips were offered for sale shortly later 'for a bit more', "changed my direction....". To me it was obvious on a couple of those that the 'fastest finger' knew of someone that actually wanted those chips for a collection and the whole intent was to make some quick bucks
• Although I personally doubt I'd be besties with those types of people in real life, it is fairly representative of the real world. Trying to censor, institute rules of "must have owned for 60 days before reselling" or anything else would lead to over-policing of the site (...and as a former owner/admin of a longtime forum myself - the headaches with having to deal with people acting like 10yo's is enough to want to shut it down...).
• NOW - with that being said, I ALSO don't think that there's anything wrong with a simple, non-inflammatory call-out. Let's say Jimmy pounces on a chip sale, and a week later is relisting at 2x the price. Should be fine for Johnny to make a post saying "these look like the same chips you purchased in this thread for half the price?". Way I see it - if you want to be on this site to have access to chips you might not otherwise be able to source - you might also get checkmated if your intent is to use the people/relationships here. There ain't no need for excessive mudslinging or name calling. Also no need to blatantly try to rip people off. People/flippers are always welcome to sell their chips on fleabay or other sites - no requirement that they have to sell here, and they can always go elsewhere. Free to buy/sell.....but also free to get (politely) called out.

I saw some chips for sale I was interested in, but they were over twice the price as they'd sold for during a sale (and these were not cheap chips). That's cool, someone can ask whatever they want price-wise. They sat unsold, and after some time the seller reached out to me via PM, asking and suggesting I pick them up. I understand what they were doing - they bought and pulled out what they wanted, and were trying to sell to pay for what they pulled. I just simply let them know that yes, although I would like those chips, I was looking to pay "close to what they originally were sold at".

 

[glynn]

That thread has been around for a few years we never had any issues with until the last 24-48 when the peaceful protests in that thread spilled over to a full out riot in member sale threads, member's creating fake ads, and the outright disregard for the Community Guidelines.

Thanks for keeping us safe from the big bad meanies. Hey btw one of the members who was called out in that thread is an actual scammer who, as of this writing, still has an active account

 

[MatB]

Thanks for keeping us safe from the big bad meanies. Hey btw one of the members who was called out in that thread is an actual scammer who, as of this writing, still has an active account

I had 2 names listed as ‘don’t deal with these people’


Were there any others ?

 

[MatB]

Shit now I’ve lost the list

Bendy Card scammer guy.

And the flipper in the same thread they were buying in guy.

Have to go look now

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Shit now I’ve lost the list

Bendy Card scammer guy.

And the flipper in the same thread they were buying in guy.

Have to go look now

Rhymes with dSmallySun and PotusHeavenHeavenHeaven.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I had 2 names listed as ‘don’t deal with these people’


Were there any others ?

*Raises hand slowly*

 

[mipevi]

I was going to post this yesterday, but then the thread had vanished LOL. Genuinely curious if you guys would consider the following seller a flipper:

Chipper 1 and chipper 2 bought a bunch of tiger chips, but chipper 1 really wants some X chips to add to his set, and openly offers the original price plus 25% on top for them. Chipper 2 then decides proceeds to sell the requested X chips from his set at the offered price.

Was chipper 2 just being a nice guy or should that be considered flipping?