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casino $1/2/5 omaha vs 2 villains (3 Viewers)

As played fold at every point asked about. If you could redo the hand, fold pre. There aren't a lot of great flops for this hand that are going to see a lot of action.
 
=====
Hero calls flop. $230 in pot. Board :4d::8s::9c: Turn :th:

Hero checks. V1 bets $230. V2 calls. Hero?
=====

Despite all the solid advice ITT, hero calls the $230. Folding is certainly the best play and I agree with those who've said fold every street, probably even PF OOP. Now that we're in this deep, there are still plenty of chances to play worse. On to the river.

Pot = $920.

Board :4d::8s::9c::th: River :kh:

Hero's hand :4c::5c::6s::7s:

Hero checks. V1 checks. V2 pots it for $920 ($200 effective). Hero?
 
I mean, ugh. We're getting over 5.5:1 now, but still, how often are we good here against V2 alone, never mind with V1 yet to act?

On one hand, if we were calling the turn on the premise of the straight being good, nothing has changed. We're still beaten by the same two hands, and we're still best if no one already had us beat.

On the other hand, it just seems far too likely that we were beat in the first place and are still throwing money on that same fire.
 
Last edited:
The river doesn't change anything, so if you thought you were good before maybe you're still good? Maybe just maybe V2 is turning a set into a bluff, and V1 folds J7.
 
If you found a $230 call on the turn if makes it difficult to fold for $200 on the river when literally nothing about the board changed...

Agree with all others who fold on the flop and on the turn... if you thought you were ahead on the turn why not just stick your last $200 in there at that point...?
 
courage said:
=====
Hero calls flop. $230 in pot. Board :4d::8s::9c: Turn :th:

Hero checks. V1 bets $230. V2 calls. Hero?
=====

Despite all the solid advice ITT, hero calls the $230. Folding is certainly the best play and I agree with those who've said fold every street, probably even PF OOP. Now that we're in this deep, there are still plenty of chances to play worse. On to the river.

Pot = $920.

Board :4d::8s::9c::th: River :kh:

Hero's hand :4c::5c::6s::7s:

Hero checks. V1 checks. V2 pots it for $920 ($200 effective). Hero?
Click to expand...

I'm screaming at the screen telling the teenager, that the killer is in the attic and to get out of the house.

Jam, Maybe we can get the J7 straight to fold...
 
H|Q said:
I'm screaming at the screen telling the teenager, that the killer is in the attic and to get out of the house.

Jam, Maybe we can get the J7 straight to fold...
Click to expand...

V1 has me way covered so that's not gonna work.
 
Ronoh said:
If you found a $230 call on the turn if makes it difficult to fold for $200 on the river when literally nothing about the board changed...

Agree with all others who fold on the flop and on the turn... if you thought you were ahead on the turn why not just stick your last $200 in there at that point...?
Click to expand...

Very good point and I don't have a sensible answer. It did cross my mind that I'm committed to the river action if villain(s) bet. I'm saving $200 if river checks around. I'm giving villains a chance to bluff on a scary board but only have a weak bluff- catcher. If I have the best hand I'm losing value.
 
As played(ughhh) fold. You're getting 5.5:1, meaning you only have to be right ~17% of the time, but quite honestly you're good here about 5% of the time when villain goes spew crazy bluffing into two people that have called both streets prior.
 
In regards to what some people are saying, that you are pot committed, you need to remember it's never wrong to fold when you're beat. You made a bad call on the turn and you know there is no way you're good here. Pot odds aside, if you cannot win then fold.
 
At this point, the way it was played - I'm calling with a comment to V1 that there ain't no shame in folding! When I donk my chips, I try to donk them all.
 
**Results**

Pot = $920.

Board :4d::8s::9c::th: River :kh:

Hero's hand :4c::5c::6s::7s:

Hero checks. V1 checks. V2 pots it for $920 ($200 effective). Hero?

Hero glances at V1 who seems done with the hand, so decides to make a face and put out a stack for the call. V1 mucks. V2 says, "well, you're probably good" as hero rolls his hand and the dealer announces "straight." Most of the table leans in to look at the hands making cave man sounds. V2 says, "I felt like I had to make a move there." Hero sheepishly says, "I prolly played it bad and should have just shoved the turn if I was gonna play." V2 says, "no you played it right, maybe saving a little money if it's a bad river" but no way to tell if he was being sincere or just encouraging the obv fish in the game. Ship the monsterpotten.

Shortly thereafter, @H|Q comes to retrieve hero for the 3/6 O8 (kill to 5/10) game that's starting. Floor calls hero for the game, hero gives thumbs down. H|Q comes back for a 2nd attempt citing the fact that another local friend is playing and giving eye roll and head tilt obv trying to rescue his floundering friend from the PLO sharks. Hero racks up and goes to to 3/6 O8 bringing monster buy-in for fun and proceeds to drink, play like an idiot and have a blast for the next 7 hours, losing $10.

idiotO8player.jpeg



Thread is of questionable strategic value but I thought I'd post it as a reminder how quickly things can go sideways in PLO particularly due to playing OOP and drawing to non-nut hands. Hero got super lucky, just like Charlie told Mav:

 
courage said:
Hero glances at V1 who seems done with the hand
Click to expand...

This is a great example of how a tell can actually change the landscape of a hand.

As soon as we can rule V1 out, it's a much simpler bluff-catcher problem in which we're getting 5.5:1 to guess whether V2 has the nuts (or maybe second nuts) versus bluffing with a busted draw (probably set, maybe maybe two pair).

There are 32 total ways he can have the nuts or second nuts and 12 total ways he could have a set on the turn, or 8:3 = 2 1/3:1, assuming he'd play all of the hands the same way, so it's a pot-odds call if that's his range. And if his actual range deviates from this model, I think it would be in ways that favor us, based on the line he's taken.
 
Jimulacrum said:
This is a great example of how a tell can actually change the landscape of a hand.

As soon as we can rule V1 out, it's a much simpler bluff-catcher problem in which we're getting 5.5:1 to guess whether V2 has the nuts (or maybe second nuts) versus bluffing with a busted draw (probably set, maybe maybe two pair).

There are 32 total ways he can have the nuts or second nuts and 12 total ways he could have a set on the turn, or 8:3 = 2 1/3:1, assuming he'd play all of the hands the same way, so it's a pot-odds call if that's his range. And if his actual range deviates from this model, I think it would be in ways that favor us, based on the line he's taken.
Click to expand...

Really appreciate the informed feedback, but I can't pretend to defend my play here. The definition of a crying call. @ushallnotraise, and others, had me pegged the whole way. What reads I did have:

V1: played with him enough to know that he had a made hand, either a set or top two. He's prolly not thrilled with his turn bet but wants to take it down.
V2: was obv drawing in position the whole way, and his draws *should* be better than hero's.

The river crying call was primarily a prayer, and V2 snap-bet it. With the nuts I thought he'd be thinking more about V1's stack the whole way, maybe even value bet the river for $400 which still has me way covered. In any case, I used up a bunch of #rungood in that hand.
 
I would have waited for the relatively unknown V2 to show his hand for future reference, he'll have position most of the time and isn't afraid to use it. He was 100% lying when he said you played it right, he just wants to be able to float IP and get folds on later streets.

Dunno how solid V1 really is, potting turn with a board like that seems bad. He's repping a very narrow range which would have never ever checked river. I guess V2 picked up on that.

NHWPGG but... no dinner? :unsure:
 
mipevi said:
I would have waited for the relatively unknown V2 to show his hand for future reference, he'll have position most of the time and isn't afraid to use it. He was 100% lying when he said you played it right, he just wants to be able to float IP and get folds on later streets.

Dunno how solid V1 really is, potting turn with a board like that seems bad. He's repping a very narrow range which would have never ever checked river. I guess V2 picked up on that.

NHWPGG but... no dinner? :unsure:
Click to expand...

Making V2 show in this spot serves us very little imo. My hand is already sufficiently weak that I already know his hand sucks and he was 100% bluffing not value betting.

The Bobby Flay bleu burger and pistachio shake were amazing. (y) :thumbsup:
 
Sure, we know he's bluffing, but would have been interested in just how light V2 called flop and especially the turn PSB.
 
River is a call, but folding flop turn is better.
 

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