Cooler or greedy? (1 Viewer)

[WillAndrew]

I finally ran into a spot that has me second guessing myself (that's good poker). I had cashed deep into the last two casino tournaments I played and won the last two home tournaments we played until last week and last night. Now all of a sudden I don't think I'm playing very well.

6 handed in a 9 player home tourney. nobody is really "the big stack" and hero and villain are as equal in stacks as anyone at the table with about 25-30 big blinds. H looks at at Cutoff. 1 limp to H who 3 bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB (Villain) calls, limper folds. flop goes . V bets 3 BB into 10 BB pot. he is a very ABC player who doesn't try multi barrel bluffs and complains on every single lost hand, showdown or not, that the other person is just so lucky. been grinding on H's nerves for a couple hours.

Action?

 

[detroitdad]

Shove. I would have shoved pre flop with 8's and 20 BB"s.


Of course I'm not a very good tourney player so take it for what is worth

 

[WillAndrew]

You know, now that I see it written and that I would have increased my stack by 33% by shoving, I probably agree

 

[DrStrange]

The preflop action is murky to me. I am not exactly sure what a "3 bet" is after some folds and one limp. The bet sizing seems to have gotten lost, Judging by the pot size at the flop I guess Hero raise to ~2.5BB? The preflop situation is awkward for a middling pocket pair - if Hero raises he is aiming to make pocket eights hold up as the best hand, if he limps it is set mining. A preflop shove has reverse implied odds problems.

I like a big bet by Hero on the flop, the shove is over sized but hero faces no RIO risks. Let's try that.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I think a shove here is fine, but flatting to try to trap Villain isn't bad either. One more bet from him, and we're basically playing for stacks, so a flat-call on the flop could get extra action from hands that he might fold to a shove (or might allow him to improve to two pair).

Of course, there's a risk of a straight coming in that would've been chased out by a shove, but that's how poker works.

 

[WillAndrew]

The preflop action is murky to me. I am not exactly sure what a "3 bet" is after some folds and one limp. The bet sizing seems to have gotten lost, Judging by the pot size at the flop I guess Hero raise to ~2.5BB?

Yeah that's it

 

[WillAndrew]

H calls, Button calls. 19BB pot. Turn comes []. V checks.

Action on H. i know im ahead, nobodys preflop action says 7 9. Just dodging straights if I want to let it go that far

 

[Trihonda]

My main problem is there's a 20bb pot, you started the hand with 25-30bb. I'm guessing you have 18-20bb behind? If you bet 10bb's (1/2 pot), then you only have 8-10bb's left (with the pot of 40bbs). Seems fishy to me to leave yourself so little left. Almost seems like a shove might seem weaker... But I think table reads (and how the action has been flowing) would be dictate a shove vs a small value bet (or slow play).

If the guy has AJ, KJ, will he likely call a shove? He'll certainly call with J8s. But more info is needed imho.

 

[WillAndrew]

Button calls with top-top all day long, but this is the first I've played with villain. Can't say for certain but with how "lucky" others have been getting to make him fold my first guess is fold

Edit: you're watching my stack more carefully than I was

 

[Jimulacrum]

Shove now. Really nothing else to do, and giving a free card doesn't make sense.

 

[WillAndrew]

I decide to let one of the other two, who are equally looking to make a move with blinds rising, and are behind, to do it for me. H checks, Button checks.
River is []. V bets 3 BB into the 19 BB pot, H calls, Button shoves smallest stack of the three, V snap shoves. Almost exactly what I was looking for. I call all-in slightly covered by V showing my set of 8's. Button mucks and V lays down .

I lost this hand after letting it get past the flop, but was getting called all-in 100% of the time after he turned the 5, and I was ahead. Do I just let this one go, or should I really consider playing less trappy? A 33% stack increase (after the flop) is nice, but a 200% increase all but wins the night. Teach me my lesson.

 

[Esection]

You lost 20bbs with a boat vs 4 of a kind. Just a cooler man, sorry to hear that happened.

 

[Trihonda]

Cooler, but could have been avoided by shoving the flop, lol.. Sure, but I don't always want to shove there. I prefer to play varying styles.. so sometimes I'm trappy, sometimes I'm TAG, etc...

 

[Jimulacrum]

An opponent getting all of his money in as a 43:1 dog and then catching quads on you is certainly no sign of a hand you played badly.

 

[WillAndrew]

Edit: came off a little confrontational, which wasn't my intention lol. Thanks for restoring my enthusiasm. The way he acted all night makes me want to show him the math at each step. Or just avoid him.

 

[DrStrange]

I'd be telling villain how well he trusted his gut. You can't win if you fold your quads no matter what the math might suggest.

Be happy for the guy. Hero took a risk and invited villain to make a mistake. Villain did make the mistake but then caught his single out that saves his stack.

 

[Adam Crowley]

Pretty weird spot for villain to check back a set on the turn as well especially with a wet board.

You can shove or check flop. I would base my decision around whether villain you think will call. He probably had a weak jack and would have folded to a shove but I think QJ+ probably gets a call.

I would have shoved turn in this spot it looks as strong as it is but when everyone has a 1/2 pot bet remaining (after shove) you will get looked up pretty light.

 

[AlPresidente]

Time to re-evaluate villain. Calling 2BB PF OOP with a low pocket pair and stacks this shallow is questionable. He isn't getting odds to set mine. Villain then donks just 30% of pot into 2 players with no draws and 3 overcards. This doesn't resemble a "very ABC player" to me.

 

[jbutler]

I finally ran into a spot that has me second guessing myself (that's good poker). I had cashed deep into the last two casino tournaments I played and won the last two home tournaments we played until last week and last night. Now all of a sudden I don't think I'm playing very well.

Apologies for derailing the strategy discussion, but just want to caution you against drawing any conclusions whatsoever about the quality of your play on the basis of such a minuscule sample size.

The way he acted all night makes me want to show him the math at each step. Or just avoid him.

I'm generally not a fan of explaining to people how to not give me money. And I would certainly not be avoiding him. Follow that guy around and value bet him until he's broke.

 

[WillAndrew]

I took 5 minutes, came back and clapped him on the shoulder telling him how poorly I played it and dealt the rest of the night.

 

[Ben]

Villain has been watching way too many high-rollers on TV. Dan Colman would love his line, if this were the One Drop. Unfortunately for him, it's a 9-man home game.

Flatting flop is the better play vs. raising, hands down. You should not really have a raising range in that spot. If you were up against a villain who WASN'T trying to 9th-level the table, you could expect a second barrel from top pair most of the time.

Not betting the turn when checked to is the mistake, not that it would have saved you from going broke this time. I'm torn between a 7-8 bb bet and a shove - more precise stack sizes and more info on button and his stack size would be the deciding factors.