Explain Tina chips to me (2 Viewers)

[badbeat37]

From my understanding ‘Tina’ chips or ‘card molds’ are ceramic chips produced by a company in China. What is the company actually called? Also, I see that there are constantly group buys going on. Being that I live in Canada is there much savings going through a group by rather than direct? Sorry for the newbie questions, just learning the forum.

 

[Omar65]

Chinese manufacturer, more plastic than ceramic (I think) but decent chips and great for the money. I don't know the actual name of the company, but at one point (and maybe still) the contact is a "Tina".
@justincarothers runs a group buy almost every month, if not every month. Many, many stock designs and you can also provide your own art for custom designs for a small graphics set-up fee.
My advice would be take some time in the Group Buy threads, you'll learn a lot from what's in there. Connect with Justin for what you can't find. I think going through the GB's is going to be very advantageous to trying to do it yourself, not to mention way easier.

 

[ChipMonster]

@justincarothers

 

[badbeat37]

Chinese manufacturer, more plastic than ceramic (I think) but decent chips and great for the money. I don't know the actual name of the company, but at one point (and maybe still) the contact is a "Tina".
@justincarothers runs a group buy almost every month, if not every month. Many, many stock designs and you can also provide your own art for custom designs for a small graphics set-up fee.
My advice would be take some time in the Group Buy threads, you'll learn a lot from what's in there. Connect with Justin for what you can't find. I think going through the GB's is going to be very advantageous to trying to do it yourself, not to mention way easier.

Thank you, this helps a ton!

 

[SteveEH]

The Tina hybrids get great reviews and are great value. If I was entering the market around that budget I would get them for sure (even though I've never handled them as veteran members here highly recommend them. Still it's never a bad idea to get samples just in csse).

The group buy shipping prices are CONUS only. Lots of people around Vancouver drive across the border to a Po box to get chips. Unfortunately that may be more of a challenge now given ca-us relations are in the toilet now.

I believe you can get them shipped directly from Tina for an extra cost. Talk to Justin...

 

[Gus]

My favorite TINA lore is that TINA is just an English sounding name stuck next to a stock photo of a customer service rep. Possible that this rep is a real person and uses Tina for their name when dealing with English speakers. (Very common, I spent a semester in China and everyone dealing with English speakers uses a Western name, while I got assigned a Chinese name which I never learned to pronounce properly).

Get samples! Justin will sell you samples. ~5 mold options now, and you can get a "Mixed barrel" so you can feel and shuffle them.

Ceramic chips when totally smooth are uhh... Ceramics. Chips using the same material but having indented/debossed edge designs along with a recessed center are called "hybrids" as in "they're ceramic, but they're like traditional chips with indentations for designs... so uhhh, we'll just call them hybrid."

BRPro sells ceramics. Stock designs, or make your own. TINA has a "no mold" design which to me appears to be 100% a ceramic... because the only difference between it and the hybrid chips is that it is smooth all over, no recessed center or edge design.

Been going down the TINA rabbit hole myself tonight so I'm freshly updated on the latest hot takes

This is the link to TINA's actual Alibaba storefront if you want to place an order directly with them... people have done it and had good experiences, but if you want some hand holding and assurance talk to @justincarothers / read through his threads (he's a site vendor so has a special page for his profile).

https://szchenlin.m.en.alibaba.com/index.html

 

[caballo993]

Gus mentioned it but the Vendor page for Justin is here:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/forums/broken-arrow-cardroom-supply.172/

It took me a while to realize that, and it would have saved me a lot of time looking up past group buys.

I believe Decembers are still receiving chips and the thread is still active with buyers sharing/venting their experiences and chips.

 

[VerdeChipper]

I received my "Tina" chips via Broken Arrow Card Room Supply December group buy a couple weeks ago. Gotta say, for the price, I don't think you can do better. They ain't a Paulson, but you can't get a custom designed Paulson or CPC for anywhere close to Tina prices. 10x less. I ordered a set of 650. I have yet to find a spinner or a label that was placed poorly, so I'd rate the quality pretty darn high. I satisfied enough with them that I'm designing another set with a different design.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Being that I live in Canada is there much savings going through a group by rather than direct?

From what I can gather, direct shipping from China to Canada is somewhat more expensive than what they charge for shipping to the US (order volume may also have some impact on that as well).

However if you end up going through a group buy as mentioned above, you will have to pay for the shipping to the US (usually included in the group buy vendor's quote), then additional shipping to Canada (not cheap). If you live near the border, you can use a mail drop service and carry them across to reduce this cost, BUT...

Currently you will likely have to pay an additional 25% tariff at the Canadian border on almost any goods coming from the US (even if the country of origin is China). In addition you may end up having to pay the Group Buy vendor for any additional US tariffs, depending on what happens in the next week or so. Shipping directly to Canada will likely avoid most of these costs.

Regardless of which way you go (other than using the US mail service and carrying them across yourself), you may end up facing a Brokerage Fee from the courier or postal service, often in the $20-$90 range. USPS/Canada Post fees are usually cheaper, Fedex/UPS fees can be pretty steep.

And of course GST/HST and/or PST will be collected at the border as well, regardless of which method you end up choosing.

Buying directly MAY end up costing more than, less than, or the same as doing the group buy from the site vendor. You would have to contact Broken Arrow and Tina separately, find out ALL of the expected costs, and do the math to see which is the best option for you.

One additional note - whoever you end up purchasing from, MAKE SURE that they fill out and attach the required Customs Declaration (including country of origin, contents, value, etc). Incomplete or missing documentation can (and most likely will) cause your shipment to be refused, ignored, lost or indefinitely delayed. Often times the shipper will refuse to provide refunds if the shipment doesn't arrive, even if they are the reason it gets stuck at Customs.

 

[EverGreenGSO]

As a long time and picky chipper I was extremely skeptical at Tina chips at first. After getting samples I changed my tune completely

That being said get a sample set. Some people hate them. I think the 43mm (larger size) are absolutely money as far as feel, shuffability, and stacking

I agree with what others said, take your time.

Every month you'll have an opportunity to buy them so don't rush your designs or breakdown quantities (If you're doing a custom design that $80 label fee will really increase per chip cost if you need to add on a small quantity later)

It's gonna take about 2.5 months from end of group buy unless you pay for air shipping. Air shipping would cut the waiting time in half

I opted not to do air shipping bc it would have cost about an extra $150 to ship my 900 chips that way. Another PCF'er said that if you air ship you could be hit with a tariff while ship shipping (lolol) would never incur a tariff

As I said I got a set of 900 ( not including about 25 total extras included) Not a single spinner, error, or label issue

Do keep in mind you will not receive proofs or samples of your chips. Once you submit payment and artwork you're locked in. That being said, one piece of advice I wish I knew before ordering is that Tina will slightly shrink your label design down. There will be approx 1mm "border" around your design. The labels do not print edge to edge

Have fun, check out all the options and designs!!

 

[upNdown]

Ceramic chips when totally smooth are uhh... Ceramics. Chips using the same material but having indented/debossed edge designs along with a recessed center are called "hybrids" as in "they're ceramic, but they're like traditional chips with indentations for designs... so uhhh, we'll just call them hybrid."

Sorry to nitpick, but in the interest of accuracy, hybrids were initially called hybrids because they are made from ceramic but they have a recess and a label.

The fact that Tina offers hybrids that also have recessed/debossed edge designs is a nice extra. But the first hybrids I ever heard of or saw were made by Sunfly. They didn’t have any mold designs debossed into them, just smooth ceramic with a recess and a label. They were called hybrids and seemed like the wave of the future, but they kinda fizzled out.

A bunch of factors have contributed to the success of Tina hybrids. First is the low price. I think second is because you have @justincarothers doing such a good job of marketing them and streamlining the ordering process. And third is the fact Tina has no regard for IP law, so she’ll print anything. Sunfly is a reputable chip maker with rules (as far as I know) and their chips are definitely more expensive.
And yeah, the Tina hybrids that I’ve handled (43mm Greek key) feel fantastic.

 

[Colquhoun]

There will be approx 1mm "border" around your design. The labels do not print edge to edge

Not true, the printing will go to the edge of the label, whether it’s a color or a photo. What will be reduced is the art or type within the space, so it doesn’t run the risk of getting trimmed off.
I have prepared art that included plenty of space, and it was still reduced, so that should be kept in mind…but your background art will definitely print to the edge, without Tina adding a border.

 

[Gus]

Sorry to nitpick, but in the interest of accuracy, hybrids were initially called hybrids because they are made from ceramic but they have a recess and a label.

The fact that Tina offers hybrids that also have recessed/debossed edge designs is a nice extra. But the first hybrids I ever heard of or saw were made by Sunfly. They didn’t have any mold designs debossed into them, just smooth ceramic with a recess and a label. They were called hybrids and seemed like the wave of the future, but they kinda fizzled out.

A bunch of factors have contributed to the success of Tina hybrids. First is the low price. I think second is because you have @justincarothers doing such a good job of marketing them and streamlining the ordering process. And third is the fact Tina has no regard for IP law, so she’ll print anything. Sunfly is a reputable chip maker with rules (as far as I know) and their chips are definitely more expensive.
And yeah, the Tina hybrids that I’ve handled (43mm Greek key) feel fantastic.

Not nitpicky at all, in fact very helpful! Precisely the origins/history I've been trying to piece together to better understand how these chips have changed over time.

Presumably the original Sun-Fly hybrids had the advantage of having a different texture on the label? A glossy label with a more matte ceramic chip that could be printed to look like a traditional clay chip? With the advantage for casinos that they'd be more durable than clay? Or maybe Sun-Fly was never quite Casino-grade, at least for the majors. Maybe I can dig up some old catalogs and see what the early versions were like.

 

[TheOffalo]

Sun-Fly PolyInno hybrids are ideal for approximating Matsui/Abbiati-style high-end plastic chip, with the smooth ceramic chip feeling similar to the smooth plastic, and the glossy/glassy label more like the labels of those plastic chips than the inlays of compression clay chips, at a fraction of the cost.

 

[EverGreenGSO]

Not true, the printing will go to the edge of the label, whether it’s a color or a photo. What will be reduced is the art or type within the space, so it doesn’t run the risk of getting trimmed off.
I have prepared art that included plenty of space, and it was still reduced, so that should be kept in mind…but your background art will definitely print to the edge, without Tina adding a border.

Can you explain how that is different than what I said? I did not include a border in my design and the final design had a border because it the whole art was shrunk down

 

[TheOffalo]

Can you explain how that is different than what I said? I did not include a border in my design and the final design had a border because it the whole art was shrunk down

Did you include a "bleed" in your design. Just making up numbers because I don't remember what the hybrid recesses sizes are off the top of my head, but if the label size was 28mm and your borderless design was 28mm exactly, and Tina (or her label printing subcontractor) shrinks the design a little to make sure everything fits, then the border is most likely just the color of the label material, presumably white, without any printing on it.

If you submitted, say, a borderless design that was 31mm for a 28mm label (3mm is just shy of 1/8", for the bleed), and they shrink it a little and then cut out 28mm, then hopefully you still end up with your labels being borderless. (I don't know how much shrinkage occurs normally.)

My question for those of you who've ordered recently from Tina is if every label design gets shrunk, and have designers tried to account for that by making the various graphical elements bigger on the label designs to accommodate? Or is the shrinking not consistent?

 

[Gus]

From what you're saying this is what I'm seeing.

Professional designers require artwork to have an extra buffer/bleed area because they know that printers, cutters, and other steps may not be 100% precise (Column 1) However, TINA doesn't want to go through the hassle of explaining this to people, so instead they play it safe and shrink any artwork they get. This ensures that no piece of the art will ever be clipped, but if there's no bleed this results in a border around the art (Column 2). If you're able to submit artwork with a "safe zone" / bleed, then when it's shrunk down it will not have a border of a different default color, because your artwork was oversized to make up for this.

I threw together this ferry design for some Bud Jones relabels, not perfect yet but that's for a different thread!

 

[Gus]

This is from the CPC custom inlay design sheet...

Even this is confusing though, because on the final art with the horse, that one is fine, it's just that there's extra extra bleed, and the customer must understand that some of it will be cut off, and/or they don't have space on their printing sheet to deal with these excess pixels so that'll cause other weird overlapping problems potentially.

 

[Colquhoun]

This is from the CPC custom inlay design sheet...

Even this is confusing though, because on the final art with the horse, that one is fine, it's just that there's extra extra bleed, and the customer must understand that some of it will be cut off, and/or they don't have space on their printing sheet to deal with these excess pixels so that'll cause other weird overlapping problems potentially.
View attachment 1485836

Correct. Most often artwork is prepared with a separate cut line that does not print, with the backround art going 1/8" or more beyond it (bleed). Sometimes that gets printed if the printer is unaware or doesnt follow the instructions.
To prevent miscommunication with China, I have been sending the labels as a mask of their final size with the image behind it (if this makes sense).

 

[fishandchips]

This is all very distressing. When you look at how much thought designers put into every detail of their labels, it's not good that the label printer might just decide to resize things for you. And that they would do it incompetently and produce a white border is just crazy.

 

[Gus]

This is all very distressing. When you look at how much thought designers put into every detail of their labels, it's not good that the label printer might just decide to resize things for you. And that they would do it incompetently and produce a white border is just crazy.

It’s all about costs. Presumably TINA resizes things because if they don’t, they clip artwork and then customers complain enough to return, force charge backs, etc

Other custom label vendors put in the time to get it right beforehand, at the expense of the time of designers, sales reps, etc… often dealing with unsophisticated customers who just want to buy a thing and have it work

In short: Price, Quality, Service. Pick two! It’s clear which two TINA has chosen

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Tina chips are dye-sub plastic chips otherwise known as ceramics. They aren't ceramic but the term is synonimous with clay and the earthy tones it imbues.
Tina chips, in particular, offer several mold designs that closely approximate expensive molds owned by various chip manufacturers some members here claim to love. Others are a complete rip-off of trademarked intellectual properties like the Top Hat and Cane used by the world's largest gaming manufacturer, GPI.
Tina chips asks no questions. They don't really care what they make. If you want a decent chip set of one of the Strip's chip sets, or you want a set of WSOP chips, and you couldn't give shit about property rights, Tina is for you.
If you are on the fence about owning chips because of a wee-bit of conscience, Tina is still for you, but you'll have to name them as "commemoratives". Even if the design you use is clearly a direct copy and doesn't state as such. It's cool. It's the new thing around here. The chipping community in years past would have frowned upon Chinese vendors doing what they do. But times change and admittedly, the hobby has become, pound for pound, one of the most expensive around. There are many reasons for this, like availability and sources, No home market except for ASM/CPC, the gaming industries' push for cheaper, longer lasting checks, ect...
If you're a true chip enthusiest, there is no replacement for the real thing at any cost. If your just looking for some sweet chips, these will do nicely. I guess I'm just bitter because this portal and the one previous used to be all about being a true collector. Now it seems more a resource for peddling cheap shit that blatantly steals from the suppliers we profess to adore with little consideration to the possible impacts such reproductions could have.

 

[BirdCage]

From what you're saying this is what I'm seeing.

Professional designers require artwork to have an extra buffer/bleed area because they know that printers, cutters, and other steps may not be 100% precise (Column 1) However, TINA doesn't want to go through the hassle of explaining this to people, so instead they play it safe and shrink any artwork they get. This ensures that no piece of the art will ever be clipped, but if there's no bleed this results in a border around the art (Column 2). If you're able to submit artwork with a "safe zone" / bleed, then when it's shrunk down it will not have a border of a different default color, because your artwork was oversized to make up for this.

I threw together this ferry design for some Bud Jones relabels, not perfect yet but that's for a different thread!

View attachment 1485832

This is all very interesting, but it doesn't explain how Tina gets some designs spot-on, every time - yet, others get shrunken to an unattractive/disappointing size. For instance the Casino Azteca come out perfectly. The Mirage and Monaco Tinas from Apache are also perfect. Why can't similar design/instructions be used to nail other/all designs?

From this thread, see example below.

 

[Gus]

This is all very interesting, but it doesn't explain how Tina gets some designs spot-on, every time - yet, others get shrunken to an unattractive/disappointing size. For instance the Casino Azteca come out perfectly. The Mirage and Monaco Tinas from Apache are also perfect. Why can't similar design/instructions be used to nail other/all designs?

From this thread, see example below.

View attachment 1486412

Presumably the ones you linked to are bigger runs, not one-off customs, and they might be willing to work to higher standards with bigger orders

Or, like many cheap services, sometimes it works great and sometimes it’s crap, and the actual problem is the unreliability (especially if it worked for you, and when you recommend it to a friend they get the messed up result…)

You can talk to the folks at CPC and get exactly what you need, and if you submit badly set up designs they’ll charge you a setup fee because it’s going to take a skilled person to get it right (and thus not ruin a $3000 order with misprinted/bad inlays)

 

[TheOffalo]

Tangiers maybe be the biggest first run they’ve had in a while. Hopefully they will listen to Justin and Cratty and stop shrinking down the faux shaped inlay labels as much as they have in the test runs. The color matched have been worked on so much and so you barely need much of the faux part, that allows the shaped “inlay” part to be bigger on the chip.

 

[ekricket]

Now it seems more a resource for peddling cheap shit that blatantly steals from the suppliers we profess to adore with little consideration to the possible impacts such reproductions could have.

just going to repost this, one of the few truths I’ve seen in here in a while.

There is a generation or two that has never had to face consequences, much less consider them in the future as a result of their actions.

 

[BirdCage]

There is a generation or two that has never had to face consequences, much less consider them in the future as a result of their actions.

For some reason when I read this it made me think of an odd parallel to the gold, fiat currency, cryptocurrency continuum.

 

[Colquhoun]

 

[ekricket]

For some reason when I read this it made me think of an odd parallel to the gold, fiat currency, cryptocurrency continuum.

You only have to kick the can down the road 50-60 years. You’ll be dead after that, who cares?

 

[dizzyChipper]

Tangiers maybe be the biggest first run they’ve had in a while. Hopefully they will listen to Justin and Cratty and stop shrinking down the faux shaped inlay labels as much as they have in the test runs. The color matched have been worked on so much and so you barely need much of the faux part, that allows the shaped “inlay” part to be bigger on the chip.

Are they ready for order?