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Going solar with new solar roof shingles (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter dennis63
- Start date
OP
OP
I spent part of the day filing paperwork for the rebates. The installer takes care of most of it, but they still want a copy of your electric bill, your roof contract, and two forms signed -- one state and one federal. You need to file a tax form with the IRS in case you end up selling electricity back to the utility company, and you have to actually name your "facility," kind of like you are creating your own little power company.
If the weather holds, the team of installers will arrive Monday morning -- the roofers, the solar electrician, and reps from the power company and Dow.
If the weather holds, the team of installers will arrive Monday morning -- the roofers, the solar electrician, and reps from the power company and Dow.
OP
OP
Just as I thought, the job has been delayed for two days due to weather. (Violent thunder storms with heavy rain, high winds are forecast for the Northeastern US this afternoon. )
OP
OP
All the materials arrived today. Two crates of solar shingles, Certainteed architectural shingles, plywood, flashing.
Looks like the job starts tomorrow morning.
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Crew arrived at 0700 today (Wednesday). The job is underway.
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One panel, out of the box, ready to install.
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Placing and securing rows of solar shingles. (Yes, you can walk on them, as this guy's doing.) The gutter has been removed and will be replaced as part of the job.
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All shingles -- solar and regular -- finished today, so the outside was essentially finished in one (long) day.
Here's the "after" photo (top) and a front view where you can see the solar shingles covering the front two-story section. They have a bit of reflective character to them, but pretty low-profile. ) In these photos, the sun is setting to the left of the house, so it catches some of the reflection. Otherwise, they look black.
The designer enlarged the array on the two-story section, with no solar shingles on the one-story section. This should bring the power output up to 55 percent of what we use each month. New white gutters are coming Monday.
The roofers started at 7 a.m., removing the old shingles and replacing some plywood. The Dow rep (from Michigan) arrived at 9 and supervised the solar array install for most of the day. Three teams worked on different sections of the roof, and they finished installing the solar shingles before 4. They cleaned up and were all gone by 7 p.m.
The solar electrician returns tomorrow to connect the wireless bi-directional meter and run the wires from the solar array to the basement. (Conduit is already in.) They arrive at 8 and expect to be done before noon.
Looks like the job starts tomorrow morning.
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Crew arrived at 0700 today (Wednesday). The job is underway.
- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -
One panel, out of the box, ready to install.
- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -
Placing and securing rows of solar shingles. (Yes, you can walk on them, as this guy's doing.) The gutter has been removed and will be replaced as part of the job.
- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -
All shingles -- solar and regular -- finished today, so the outside was essentially finished in one (long) day.
Here's the "after" photo (top) and a front view where you can see the solar shingles covering the front two-story section. They have a bit of reflective character to them, but pretty low-profile. ) In these photos, the sun is setting to the left of the house, so it catches some of the reflection. Otherwise, they look black.
The designer enlarged the array on the two-story section, with no solar shingles on the one-story section. This should bring the power output up to 55 percent of what we use each month. New white gutters are coming Monday.
The roofers started at 7 a.m., removing the old shingles and replacing some plywood. The Dow rep (from Michigan) arrived at 9 and supervised the solar array install for most of the day. Three teams worked on different sections of the roof, and they finished installing the solar shingles before 4. They cleaned up and were all gone by 7 p.m.
The solar electrician returns tomorrow to connect the wireless bi-directional meter and run the wires from the solar array to the basement. (Conduit is already in.) They arrive at 8 and expect to be done before noon.
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OP
OP
The latest -- The solar electrician was supposed to send two workers Thursday, but sent only one. He worked all day, but didn't finish the install, which will be completed Monday (I hope).
Generally, contractors seem to take about twice as long as they claim to do the job. I've found this to be true in other jobs, and here, too.
When the install is complete, the electrician will do a test, turning the system on for about half an hour and running a systems test. During this time, the Dow rep suggested I turn off non-essential things for about three minutes -- lights, TVs, etc. -- just so I can watch the meter run backward.
I also learned today that my house is the first in my state to get solar shingles. (There are two others in the works right now, but there installations have been pushed back by the weather and other factors.)
Generally, contractors seem to take about twice as long as they claim to do the job. I've found this to be true in other jobs, and here, too.
When the install is complete, the electrician will do a test, turning the system on for about half an hour and running a systems test. During this time, the Dow rep suggested I turn off non-essential things for about three minutes -- lights, TVs, etc. -- just so I can watch the meter run backward.
I also learned today that my house is the first in my state to get solar shingles. (There are two others in the works right now, but there installations have been pushed back by the weather and other factors.)
OP
OP
Gotta get DE Online there to do a story.
Dow is actually contacting them to let them know.
OP
OP
The electricians finished today. The system is installed and working.
It will remain off until the power company signs off on turning it on. (This usually takes two to four weeks.) Real-world power numbers to follow.
The system was on briefly today -- less than 30 minutes. From this test, I can tell you:
Some other stuff I've learned along the way:
We decided against having batteries for storage. They're expensive, need to be replaced every five years, and add a bit of a safety issue. So when the grid is down (like during a power outage), our house will be down too, no matter how much the sun is shining. This keeps the system from putting power back through the lines while they're being worked on.
There is an option to add a single outlet to the inverter and power one outlet during a power outage for your fridge, TV, etc.
A regular generator can be added to the system if it's wired separately correctly by an electrician.
The specs say my array has 208 solar shingles in an area of 343.5 square feet.
It will produce 3,414 kWh per year, or just under 10 kilowatt hours per year per square foot of solar array. This amount may differ on a house with a different orientation to north, but could provide an estimate of what you'd expect on a larger roof.
Pictures of the components to follow...
It will remain off until the power company signs off on turning it on. (This usually takes two to four weeks.) Real-world power numbers to follow.
The system was on briefly today -- less than 30 minutes. From this test, I can tell you:
- Electricity was never interrupted at the house, even during the install
- The system can draw from the solar array or off the grid seamlessly, with no sound or interruption of power.
- Solar power generation is completely silent -- no noises, clicks, etc. It transitions from the grid to the array and back without a sound. (I was watching TV on a large flat screen and did not know when they switched back to the grid.)
Some other stuff I've learned along the way:
We decided against having batteries for storage. They're expensive, need to be replaced every five years, and add a bit of a safety issue. So when the grid is down (like during a power outage), our house will be down too, no matter how much the sun is shining. This keeps the system from putting power back through the lines while they're being worked on.
There is an option to add a single outlet to the inverter and power one outlet during a power outage for your fridge, TV, etc.
A regular generator can be added to the system if it's wired separately correctly by an electrician.
The specs say my array has 208 solar shingles in an area of 343.5 square feet.
It will produce 3,414 kWh per year, or just under 10 kilowatt hours per year per square foot of solar array. This amount may differ on a house with a different orientation to north, but could provide an estimate of what you'd expect on a larger roof.
Pictures of the components to follow...
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OP
OP
Caution regarding "home energy audit" companies
My state requires that in order to get the rebates on your solar array, you must get an energy audit at some point during the process. The roofer had an audit company here in Delaware. Their guy came out today.
All of his findings are at least suspect. Here's why.
1. He said I have R-15 insulation in my attic, and recommended we add insulation to increase the value to R-38. His company offered to do this job for $2,300. The problem: I added insulation two years ago and have a value of R30 there already.
2. While "checking" my water heater, he turned up the water temperature to maximum. I noticed it this evening, doing the dinner dishes, when I almost scalded myself with the hot water. I went to the water heater, checked, and found the temp knob had been turned to maximum. (I set it very carefully when we had a new water heater installed just over a year ago -- between 120 and 130.)
Looks like they were planning to add insulation I don't need, then turn my water heater back down so I'd see some "savings."
My state requires that in order to get the rebates on your solar array, you must get an energy audit at some point during the process. The roofer had an audit company here in Delaware. Their guy came out today.
All of his findings are at least suspect. Here's why.
1. He said I have R-15 insulation in my attic, and recommended we add insulation to increase the value to R-38. His company offered to do this job for $2,300. The problem: I added insulation two years ago and have a value of R30 there already.
2. While "checking" my water heater, he turned up the water temperature to maximum. I noticed it this evening, doing the dinner dishes, when I almost scalded myself with the hot water. I went to the water heater, checked, and found the temp knob had been turned to maximum. (I set it very carefully when we had a new water heater installed just over a year ago -- between 120 and 130.)
Looks like they were planning to add insulation I don't need, then turn my water heater back down so I'd see some "savings."
I'm nearly speechless. That's just so wrong.
OP
OP
No doubt. I had my doubts about bringing in an "energy auditor" even before the process, and made this known to the roofer.
I won't be doing any of their recommended "fixes," and won't be doing any business with them. (The rebates don't hinge on you following their recommendations.)
That's good. I wouldn't do any business with Horizon either. They tried to rip me off. 2 or 3 summers ago I noticed that the fan in the AC condenser unit in the yard wasn't spinning. The AC was working fine but I knew the unit wouldn't last long with the fan not working. We were on the 4th or 5th day of a heat wave too.
It was $90 just for them to come out within the hour, which I had no issue with. The guy tried to charge me $550 to replaced the dual-run capacitor in the unit. Luckily a guy at work was just telling us about how he replaced his and even brought in the defective one. It looked like a beer can that has tabs on top were the wires attach.
The dual-run capacitor in my unit looked all swelled up and tested bad. The guy said that happens to them over time. I told him to put the old one back in and paid him the $90 for coming out.
I got the model number/specs off the one in my unit and call the local supply store in Wilmington. The part was $9.17! LOL The capacitor had an easy to ready schematic on it and so did my AC condenser. It took me about 5 mins to put the new one in. (In case someone has a similar problem, make sure you shut the power off to the unit before working on it. There is suppose to be a service diconnect located next to the unit)
There are a few people that I know that have not so nice things to so about them too. Stay away from them at all costs!
It was $90 just for them to come out within the hour, which I had no issue with. The guy tried to charge me $550 to replaced the dual-run capacitor in the unit. Luckily a guy at work was just telling us about how he replaced his and even brought in the defective one. It looked like a beer can that has tabs on top were the wires attach.
The dual-run capacitor in my unit looked all swelled up and tested bad. The guy said that happens to them over time. I told him to put the old one back in and paid him the $90 for coming out.
I got the model number/specs off the one in my unit and call the local supply store in Wilmington. The part was $9.17! LOL The capacitor had an easy to ready schematic on it and so did my AC condenser. It took me about 5 mins to put the new one in. (In case someone has a similar problem, make sure you shut the power off to the unit before working on it. There is suppose to be a service diconnect located next to the unit)
There are a few people that I know that have not so nice things to so about them too. Stay away from them at all costs!
OP
OP
My neighbor told me a similar story about Horizon. He used them a year ago, spent a ton of money with them, and is currently stewing in his house without air conditioning.
My shady energy auditor has had no impact on my solar shingle roof. We have a final, independent inspection scheduled next week, then it's just a wait for the approval to throw the switch.
OP
OP
Update:
Two weeks ago, our independent inspector found everything in good order and working perfectly. He said he would send notice to Delmarva that we passed inspection, and we'd get an "approval to operate" from Delmarva "within two weeks, probably faster."
The approval to operate should have arrived by yesterday, August 13. I was off from work, and was hoping to wake up, have a good cup of coffee, and check my e-mail for the order to throw the switch, then post here that all was well and my house was making electricity, but ...
The expected "approval to operate" was not provided by Delmarva, our local utility. When I called to find out why, I learned the approval hit a snag because someone involved in the process failed to obtain the approval to install the system before it was installed. (And yes, it has been installed for nearly a month.)
There were some heated discussions with the contractors involved, as we're missing some prime sunny summer days.
I've been assured that Delmarva will eventually issue an "approval to install," and the installer will respond with, "Super. We've already installed it!" sign the bottom line and send it back. The waiting then begins again, and eventually, Delmarva will issue an "approval to operate," telling me to switch the system on. I'm told that could be between two and six weeks from now. The most experienced contractor in the group said he would never even guess when it will happen.
For their part, the contractor responsible for the error has been identified, admitted he messed up and apologized. He has promised to pay me an amount equal to my projected energy savings from yesterday until the system is on.
This technology is clearly not for the faint of heart, or anyone with a leaky roof, for that matter.
Two weeks ago, our independent inspector found everything in good order and working perfectly. He said he would send notice to Delmarva that we passed inspection, and we'd get an "approval to operate" from Delmarva "within two weeks, probably faster."
The approval to operate should have arrived by yesterday, August 13. I was off from work, and was hoping to wake up, have a good cup of coffee, and check my e-mail for the order to throw the switch, then post here that all was well and my house was making electricity, but ...
The expected "approval to operate" was not provided by Delmarva, our local utility. When I called to find out why, I learned the approval hit a snag because someone involved in the process failed to obtain the approval to install the system before it was installed. (And yes, it has been installed for nearly a month.)
There were some heated discussions with the contractors involved, as we're missing some prime sunny summer days.
I've been assured that Delmarva will eventually issue an "approval to install," and the installer will respond with, "Super. We've already installed it!" sign the bottom line and send it back. The waiting then begins again, and eventually, Delmarva will issue an "approval to operate," telling me to switch the system on. I'm told that could be between two and six weeks from now. The most experienced contractor in the group said he would never even guess when it will happen.
For their part, the contractor responsible for the error has been identified, admitted he messed up and apologized. He has promised to pay me an amount equal to my projected energy savings from yesterday until the system is on.
This technology is clearly not for the faint of heart, or anyone with a leaky roof, for that matter.
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OP
OP
The solar array is on! The switch was thrown at 1 p.m., and has been on for nearly three hours.
Dow's online monitoring indicates it has generated 1.4 kilowatt hours and saved us $0.45 in three hours.
Looking forward to seeing how this goes in the future, and what the actual savings will be.
Dow's online monitoring indicates it has generated 1.4 kilowatt hours and saved us $0.45 in three hours.
Looking forward to seeing how this goes in the future, and what the actual savings will be.
Milo013
Flush
Nice, and just in time for winter . . . I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
OP
OP
It's exactly what I was thinking, too. Almost four months to get this done! Yikes.
Thanks for keeping us updated, following with interest.
Milo013
Flush
Won't the cells actually "help" with snowmelt on your roof, though?
OP
OP
On a solar panel roof, snow melts faster. Talking to the installer, we're really not sure how snow will melt on the solar shingles. He said, "I guess we'll see what happens with these this winter."
The meter was running backward this morning when I checked at 7:30 a.m. The kWh reading actually decreased through the day today, even with central air set at 69 degrees F. (It's 90 degrees (F) outside in the Northeastern US today.)
So far, so good.
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Here are the outside meters (top) and the AC inverter (bottom) next to the circuit breaker box.
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Milo013
Flush
Nice !!!
OP
OP
Power production for the first week:
Fri., 09/05 (system on after 1 p.m.): 4.57 kWh
Sat., 09/06: 11.83 kWh
Sun., 09/07: 13.88 kWh
Mo., 09/08: 5.49 kWh
Tu., 09/09: 6.08 kWhWed., 09/10: 11.1 kWh
Thu., 09/11/14: 6.71 kWh
Total for 7 days: 59.66
Average per day: 8.52 kWh
Fri., 09/05 (system on after 1 p.m.): 4.57 kWh
Sat., 09/06: 11.83 kWh
Sun., 09/07: 13.88 kWh
Mo., 09/08: 5.49 kWh
Tu., 09/09: 6.08 kWhWed., 09/10: 11.1 kWh
Thu., 09/11/14: 6.71 kWh
Total for 7 days: 59.66
Average per day: 8.52 kWh
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OP
OP
Average over the past year = 20.10 kWh / day, so more than we're making. We figure the roof will cut our power bill down to a little more than half of what we paid last year.
Shanghai Sparky
Pair
Saving this for later to read back through all the previous posts. I am a NABCEP Certified solar installer in Wisconsin, and a Master Electrician.
I also have taught solar classes for SEI, Midwest Renewable Energy, and the IBEW.
I also have taught solar classes for SEI, Midwest Renewable Energy, and the IBEW.
OP
OP
Yesterday (Friday, March 6, 2015) was 26 weeks -- six months to the day -- since the solar array was switched on. Good time for an update:
In six months, the system has generated 1,131.55 kWh.This is an average of only 188 kWh per month, and is less than the 240 kWh expected.
Savings during that time averaged about $30.33 per month, based on the cost of a kilowatt hour and the electricity produced. This is also less than the $50 per month we were expecting.
Rebates: We did get get expected federal tax rebate stated by the manufacturer. We're still waiting for the state to issue the check for their rebate. The solar electrician said the "line" for the checks is about 9 months long, so we expect to see the check in the next three months.
When the state rebate check arrives, the solar shingle roof will have cost about $3,000 more than a conventional roof.
Renewable energy credits: We just passed 1,000 kWh, so we'll be in the next auction for RECs. After the auction, we should be getting a check for between $40 and $45. Since we'll produce at least 3,000 kWh per year, we'll see REC payments of between $120 and $135 / year, for an average of between $10 and $11.25 per month.
Winter weather has likely tweaked our numbers down quite a bit.
Installing in September wasn't the best timing, but since the technology was new, we ended up waiting a couple of months longer than we expected to get this done. We're seeing an increase of about 5 kWh per week in actual energy production as the days get longer, so the next six months should be interesting.
Payback date: Based on electricity production in the past six months (and the RECs), the system will pay for itself in six years and 3 months.
It will be interesting to see how production goes in the next six months.
In six months, the system has generated 1,131.55 kWh.This is an average of only 188 kWh per month, and is less than the 240 kWh expected.
Savings during that time averaged about $30.33 per month, based on the cost of a kilowatt hour and the electricity produced. This is also less than the $50 per month we were expecting.
Rebates: We did get get expected federal tax rebate stated by the manufacturer. We're still waiting for the state to issue the check for their rebate. The solar electrician said the "line" for the checks is about 9 months long, so we expect to see the check in the next three months.
When the state rebate check arrives, the solar shingle roof will have cost about $3,000 more than a conventional roof.
Renewable energy credits: We just passed 1,000 kWh, so we'll be in the next auction for RECs. After the auction, we should be getting a check for between $40 and $45. Since we'll produce at least 3,000 kWh per year, we'll see REC payments of between $120 and $135 / year, for an average of between $10 and $11.25 per month.
Winter weather has likely tweaked our numbers down quite a bit.
Installing in September wasn't the best timing, but since the technology was new, we ended up waiting a couple of months longer than we expected to get this done. We're seeing an increase of about 5 kWh per week in actual energy production as the days get longer, so the next six months should be interesting.
Payback date: Based on electricity production in the past six months (and the RECs), the system will pay for itself in six years and 3 months.
It will be interesting to see how production goes in the next six months.
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Very glad to see this - I am in the market for a new roof and have been considering solar shingles. Living in Florida should help to maximize the potential savings.
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