OP
OP
They don't call it "the sunshine state" for nothing.
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Going solar with new solar roof shingles (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dennis63
- Start date
They don't call it "the sunshine state" for nothing.
Mental Nomad
Full House
Was your 240kWh your average month estimate year-round? Or was that your winter month estimate?
The weeks before and after March 21st may be a better "rough" estimate of your annually averaged week, seeing as Sept 21st and March 21st are the equinoxes. March 21st to Sept 21st should be the highest-producing half of the year.
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Scumbags who could actually hurt someone. Scumbags.
Mental Nomad
Full House
Just a note about solar panels being energized in fires - the issue isn't that they are energized by fires, it's that they stay energized in fires, if there is still sun hitting the panel... even if you throw the emergency cutoffs.
The solar panels are energized and producing when there's sun hitting them, whether you have wires connected to them or not. This is a tough lesson more than one solar hobbyist has learned the hard way, after doing a repair in the field and going to re-connect the wires and melting the contacts with the arc from the power that was in the panels.
The solar panels are energized and producing when there's sun hitting them, whether you have wires connected to them or not. This is a tough lesson more than one solar hobbyist has learned the hard way, after doing a repair in the field and going to re-connect the wires and melting the contacts with the arc from the power that was in the panels.
OP
OP
Good points throughout.
The 1,331 kWh is what was actually produced in the past 26 weeks since the system was turned on -- so half a year. This is really the "wrong" half to look at, as it's winter.
The system specs said it would produce 3,414 per year, or an average month of 284 kWh. In the past six months, it's produced 1,331, or 221 kWh per month. (about 78 percent of the expected total.)
The next six months will be interesting, as we'll see if it produces enough to average 284 per month.
And you are correct. If we turn the cut-off switch to "off," the panels continue to produce energy, and the cable between the panels and the cut-off switch is charged, but only if it is daytime and there's enough light to produce electricity. In other words, if your presumed house fire is at night, the system is not charged.
An assistant chief of my local fire department assures me they know how to handle this without a problem, should the need ever arise.
Thankfully, no amateur solar hobbyists -- like me -- were involved in setting this up.
Last edited:
OP
OP
One-Year Update:
At 1 p.m. EDT today, we hit (exactly) one year -- to the minute -- since the solar array on our house was switched on. Here's how we did in the first year:
Energy produced:
The system produced 3,088.61 kWh of electricity over 12 months -- 257.38 kWh per month, or 8.46 kWh per day. That's 90.44 percent of the amount predicted by the Dow engineers.
We've had exceptionally good (sunny or partly sunny) weather in the Spring and Summer this year, but last winter was pretty cloudy, rainy, snowy and dark. This may account for the shortfall.
Savings:
We've calculated that the system produced enough electricity to save us $524.26 over the past 12 months -- an average of $43.68 per month.
Rebates:
Federal: We got the full federal tax rebate allowed for our system -- $6,102 -- in February of this year.
State: It's through Delmarva Power, so you might have guessed it's still pending. It should arrive some time this month. The state's website lists our rebate amount as $2,210. (It's not the $3,250 we all thought it would be, as Delaware and the power company switched rebate programs after we signed on for the job but before we installed our roof. The later rebate program paid less for each project, and they say we filed about one day too late to be included in the earlier program.
Solar Renewable Energy Credit
These are like carbon credits. When you have a solar power system at your house, you can "sell" the "renewable" aspect of the energy you're producing on a market at auction. You sell to big energy users who support solar and essentially buy the energy you're not using because you have solar, reducing demand on the whole system. We sold one SREC unit of 1,000 kWh -- the amount of energy our system made before the auction in April -- for $26.08. Next year, we'll have produced four (4) more SREC's by auction time.
Problems:
Absolutely none. The system works well, is completely silent, and has no maintenance or maintenance costs. Since these are solar shingles, they look very, very much like regular roof shingles, but produce electricity. Someone walking past our house would not know the roof is solar.
Overall conclusions:
A system like this is not for the faint of heart. It takes time and a big up-front investment to go solar. You really need to be committed to the idea -- either because you love the technology, the environment or the savings. You can also just hate the power company. (I think I qualify in all those areas.)
While I wish we had filed early enough to get the larger rebate, and I'm not thrilled that we're still waiting for the state rebate, I know it will arrive soon. Within a few weeks, we'll have paid about the same amount -- maybe $1,000 more -- for a roof with solar shingles than we would have paid for a conventional roof. Our power bill is lower than prior years, and we're making and selling SRECs.
Overall, I am pleased with the result, and would recommend it to others if their houses are in the right locations.
At 1 p.m. EDT today, we hit (exactly) one year -- to the minute -- since the solar array on our house was switched on. Here's how we did in the first year:
Energy produced:
The system produced 3,088.61 kWh of electricity over 12 months -- 257.38 kWh per month, or 8.46 kWh per day. That's 90.44 percent of the amount predicted by the Dow engineers.
We've had exceptionally good (sunny or partly sunny) weather in the Spring and Summer this year, but last winter was pretty cloudy, rainy, snowy and dark. This may account for the shortfall.
Savings:
We've calculated that the system produced enough electricity to save us $524.26 over the past 12 months -- an average of $43.68 per month.
Rebates:
Federal: We got the full federal tax rebate allowed for our system -- $6,102 -- in February of this year.
State: It's through Delmarva Power, so you might have guessed it's still pending. It should arrive some time this month. The state's website lists our rebate amount as $2,210. (It's not the $3,250 we all thought it would be, as Delaware and the power company switched rebate programs after we signed on for the job but before we installed our roof. The later rebate program paid less for each project, and they say we filed about one day too late to be included in the earlier program.
Solar Renewable Energy Credit
These are like carbon credits. When you have a solar power system at your house, you can "sell" the "renewable" aspect of the energy you're producing on a market at auction. You sell to big energy users who support solar and essentially buy the energy you're not using because you have solar, reducing demand on the whole system. We sold one SREC unit of 1,000 kWh -- the amount of energy our system made before the auction in April -- for $26.08. Next year, we'll have produced four (4) more SREC's by auction time.
Problems:
Absolutely none. The system works well, is completely silent, and has no maintenance or maintenance costs. Since these are solar shingles, they look very, very much like regular roof shingles, but produce electricity. Someone walking past our house would not know the roof is solar.
Overall conclusions:
A system like this is not for the faint of heart. It takes time and a big up-front investment to go solar. You really need to be committed to the idea -- either because you love the technology, the environment or the savings. You can also just hate the power company. (I think I qualify in all those areas.)
While I wish we had filed early enough to get the larger rebate, and I'm not thrilled that we're still waiting for the state rebate, I know it will arrive soon. Within a few weeks, we'll have paid about the same amount -- maybe $1,000 more -- for a roof with solar shingles than we would have paid for a conventional roof. Our power bill is lower than prior years, and we're making and selling SRECs.
Overall, I am pleased with the result, and would recommend it to others if their houses are in the right locations.
RowdyRawhide
Full House
Dennis,
This may be stupid question but have you noticed an increas or decrease in the temperature of your house/ attic since these were installed. ie do these produce heat in the process or do they offer some type of reflective "heat dispersion"?
This may be stupid question but have you noticed an increas or decrease in the temperature of your house/ attic since these were installed. ie do these produce heat in the process or do they offer some type of reflective "heat dispersion"?
We just re-roofed and I investigated these - unfortunately they were not available in my area. 
:
:
OP
OP
Good question. There has been no noticeable difference in the room temperature in the house. We keep the thermostat pretty constant, so I wouldn't expect one. I don't know about the attic, as we don't really monitor the temp up there. We did install a fan up there when we had the roof done.
The roofer mentioned early in the process that the solar array reduces the amount of heat in the attic, compared to standard shingles.
maxim_666666
Flush
I recently watched a series of programs about the deterioration of the ecology ...
and was impressed with how we are killing this planet ...
and was impressed with how we are killing this planet ...
OP
OP
Rebate news:
Our rebate check from the State of Delaware Renewable Energy Program arrived yesterday, 14 months after our system was switched on. The check was for $2,210.00, so our total rebates on the system amount to $8,312.
So our return in the first year has been:
Federal (tax) rebate: $6,102.00
State Rebate: $2,210.00
Energy savings: $524.46 in 12 months
SREC payment to us: $26.08
Total return on investment: $8,862.54
Cost of the roof with solar shingles: $23,535
Cost of a conventional roof without solar: $9,350
Difference between conventional and solar roof: $14,185
Return in 12 months (from above) $8,862.54
Difference: $5,322.46
Average monthly savings on energy: $524.26 per year
Average annual SREC payments to us at 3 SRECs per year: $78.24 (estimated)
Total estimated future annual return (estimated): $602.50
Total operating time to recoup all costs: 9 years and 10 months. (That's the total cost - the first year return = $5,322. And $5,322 / $602.50 per year = 8.8 years)
This is slightly longer than we originally estimated because the state's renewable energy program reduced its rebate to us by $1,040, or 32 percent. They said this was because they funded the program, together with Delmarva Power, and underestimated the number of people and businesses who would be getting involved in solar.
Updated conclusions:
The rebates were slightly less (11 percent) than we expected, and the amount of energy produced is 90 percent of what they predicted. Given the rising cost of electricity in the future, I'm still glad we made the move to solar.
Our rebate check from the State of Delaware Renewable Energy Program arrived yesterday, 14 months after our system was switched on. The check was for $2,210.00, so our total rebates on the system amount to $8,312.
So our return in the first year has been:
Federal (tax) rebate: $6,102.00
State Rebate: $2,210.00
Energy savings: $524.46 in 12 months
SREC payment to us: $26.08
Total return on investment: $8,862.54
Cost of the roof with solar shingles: $23,535
Cost of a conventional roof without solar: $9,350
Difference between conventional and solar roof: $14,185
Return in 12 months (from above) $8,862.54
Difference: $5,322.46
Average monthly savings on energy: $524.26 per year
Average annual SREC payments to us at 3 SRECs per year: $78.24 (estimated)
Total estimated future annual return (estimated): $602.50
Total operating time to recoup all costs: 9 years and 10 months. (That's the total cost - the first year return = $5,322. And $5,322 / $602.50 per year = 8.8 years)
This is slightly longer than we originally estimated because the state's renewable energy program reduced its rebate to us by $1,040, or 32 percent. They said this was because they funded the program, together with Delmarva Power, and underestimated the number of people and businesses who would be getting involved in solar.
Updated conclusions:
The rebates were slightly less (11 percent) than we expected, and the amount of energy produced is 90 percent of what they predicted. Given the rising cost of electricity in the future, I'm still glad we made the move to solar.
Thanks for the update, this is good information.
Meddler2
Full House
This might have been covered alreeady, but how long are the shingles warranteed for, what is their expected life, how well will they hold up against hail damage, how easy is it to replace damage shingles and can the home owner make repairs himself?
OP
OP
The conventional and solar shingles have a 25-year warranty. "Expected life" of a solar shingle is 25 years, but has yet to be proven, as they haven't been around long enough to confirm that. The PV function of the shingle has no moving parts and could (in theory) have a much longer life. (Some solar panels installed in the 1970s are still chugging away on rooftops out West.)
Dow says they've tested the shingles and they withstand hurricane-force winds and one-inch hail at terminal velocity.
The system detects if a shingle is not operating and notifies the homeowner and the installer. Replacement of the problem shingle is ordered. No cost to the homeowner, but you can't do it yourself. Only a certified technician can install.
slisk250
Straight Flush
I'm curious if you've had a major hail storm at your location since the install. You can be sure it will happen often at my Colorado Mountain location (probably during the meet up). Any word on how these handle some storm action?
Edit - Whoops, someone just asked this.
Edit - Whoops, someone just asked this.
OP
OP
Yes. The warranty covers storm damage, so if they are damaged, they'll be replaced for free. Dow says they tested the solar shingles and they withstand hurricane force winds (I believe it was 120 mph), and one-inch hail. I recall thinking that the rest of my house would not likely be standing in those conditions.
Since the install, we have had hail, but nothing too large. We've had storms -- lots and lots of wind and rain, snow, sleet. (It's the Northeast, so the weather generally stinks most of the time.)
OP
OP
For the first time since we installed our solar shingles, we got a "zero" electric bill for April, 2016.
This is unusual, and it's the first time it's happened. We had ideal conditions in late March and early April, with more sunny days than usual in the Northeast. We also apparently didn't use as much electricity during the power company's billing days. (It's never exactly one calendar month.)
So we got a bill that said, "No payment due." (It was about $220 per month before the solar install, and significantly less after.)
The two-directional meter insures that when we make more electricity than we use, we have credit for the extra power we put into the system.
I don't expect this too often, but it was nice to see it as a real result.
This is unusual, and it's the first time it's happened. We had ideal conditions in late March and early April, with more sunny days than usual in the Northeast. We also apparently didn't use as much electricity during the power company's billing days. (It's never exactly one calendar month.)
So we got a bill that said, "No payment due." (It was about $220 per month before the solar install, and significantly less after.)
The two-directional meter insures that when we make more electricity than we use, we have credit for the extra power we put into the system.
I don't expect this too often, but it was nice to see it as a real result.
OP
OP
Yes. Nine years and 10 months. We are 20 months in, so eight years two months from today.
The full beak down of costs, rebates and savings is posted above.
Jake14mw
Flush
OP
OP
Great idea!
So we're not quite to our break-even point on the system yet. I estimated -- a "wild-ass guess" really -- that it would take 8.8 years (8 years and 9 months) from the installation date of September, 2014. So I originally thought our savings would equal our cost in mid-July, 2023. Right now, we're at 8 years 3 months.
So far, as of Dec. 31, 2022, the system has produced 21,149 kwh of electricity, an average of 243 kwh per month or 8 kwh per day. Right now, that's a savings of $48.60 per month.
Based on past and current prices, that's a savings of $4,018.31
We've received $121.07 in SREC payments
Savings + SREC payments to us = $4,139.38
The "break even" point will be $5,322.46 (from post # 70 above), so we're still about $1,200 away from breaking even. That won't happen in 6 months.
I'm guessing it will take 16 to 18 months longer than I thought.
The system has been silent and problem-free. No interruptions, no repair costs. We can check output online and at our two-directional meter any time we want.
As the price of a kwh of electricity has increased, we've been recouping more of the initial cost by producing some of our own electricity rather than paying higher prices to buy it from the power company.
Overall, I'm pleased with the system. The weather over the past few years has been exceptionally crappy, so I'm sure that accounts for some of the shortfall in power production. But I am a bit disappointed that the performance / output was significantly overestimated by the designers.
Kinda like that "mpg" number they give you on the new car.
HaRDHouSeiNC
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You can’t beat solar on Guam
You wouldn’t believe our price per kWH now
It’s nearing 45c
I can’t believe it’s lower here still than Hawaii though
I think I’m already even now with the huge jump in cost a year ago or more and have only had the system 5 ish years
You wouldn’t believe our price per kWH now
It’s nearing 45c
I can’t believe it’s lower here still than Hawaii though
I think I’m already even now with the huge jump in cost a year ago or more and have only had the system 5 ish years
OP
OP
Awesome! Great system and beautiful skies you have down there.
Send some of that weather this way, please!
HaRDHouSeiNC
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Yah with the constant good sun coverage here this thing kills it
Averages 1400 kWh a month
If you want something fun to play with this sense monitor is cool
AWenger
Full House
I hadn't seen this thread before. This is a great case study for solar panel/shingle installation, operation, and cost-benefit analysis. Amazingly detailed, well-laid out and written. Well done, and thanks for sharing.
Related to the issue about "shortfall in power production", I'm curious about something. Were there any guidelines or recommendations provided about whether the surface of the panels/shingles ever need to be cleaned over the years? I'm wondering if dirt, grime, pollen, etc. ever build up or get caked onto the panels which might reduce the sunlight shining through. Or do heavy rains do a good job of washing them clean?
HaRDHouSeiNC
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Cleaning is very important
A couple of dirty panels can drop the overall production of the strings significantly
I got mine cleaned last year because it was only output around 8500w vs peak 12,500w
Just a little grimy buildup on the bottom of the pannels can significantly drop output
Not sure on the performance of the shingles but I have to make sure I keep mine clean
Jake14mw
Flush
I would imagine if you're near the equator like Guam where your panels point close to straight up, they would have to be cleaned more often, and if your panels are at a more northern latitude where they are pointed more on an angle less cleaning needed. The OP's roof looks pretty flat though, so it will be interesting to know.
I had been looking into solar previously, but I didn't want to take on more debt and my roof shingles will need to be replaced before I do it. I was thinking to go ground mount though because I have a slope in the back that's unusable for any recreation. I'm in CT, and Eversource just raised rates 50%, so I am interested again, and I'm also looking into an alternative supplier.
We use an average of close to 60kwh a day, and I don't understand how. We do have electric cars, so that accounts for about 28kwh per day, but still, 32kwh/day on a 2k sq ft house? Even before the EVs, I had Eversource come out and check the meter, they found nothing wrong. I also had one of those energy audits done, and no big changes after that.
I had been looking into solar previously, but I didn't want to take on more debt and my roof shingles will need to be replaced before I do it. I was thinking to go ground mount though because I have a slope in the back that's unusable for any recreation. I'm in CT, and Eversource just raised rates 50%, so I am interested again, and I'm also looking into an alternative supplier.
We use an average of close to 60kwh a day, and I don't understand how. We do have electric cars, so that accounts for about 28kwh per day, but still, 32kwh/day on a 2k sq ft house? Even before the EVs, I had Eversource come out and check the meter, they found nothing wrong. I also had one of those energy audits done, and no big changes after that.
HaRDHouSeiNC
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Here the mildew and moss grows on the bottom of the pannels so you have to check every 6 months or so
If you wana watch, get one of those sense devices for your breaker box
You can constantly monitor real time and use it to try and track down phantom draw of wattage one breaker at a time plus track your solar real time
I think it’s great
If I ever get a chance to build, I may go right for Passive House standards rather than solar (which is more expensive compared to our base hydroelectricity rates for justification). But damn, exterior walls are 13" thick before adding on 4" of interior framing.
HaRDHouSeiNC
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Cranking out the wattage right now
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