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Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter aggie
- Start date
bergs
Royal Flush
So wait, Chinese THC mold knockoffs are the problem (which don’t exist yet AFAIK) or the Cards mold chips are a problem as well?
I’m just trying to stay on top of what we should be collectively outraged about while other problems systemically plague the hobby as we ineffectually wave at them as they pass by.
bergs
Royal Flush
I’m getting a set of those and if y’all want a war we can start it right here.
Caveat emptor - anyone dumb enough to get suckered by a ceramic chip didn’t do enough research and didn’t GET SAMPLES.
Yes, the THC mold if used by the Chinese manufacturers could be a problem. I’d support encouraging people not to produce Chinese ceramics on those specifically, but we can’t even stop flippers from buying chips we want at Chiproom sales and then selling them back to us at 200% markup “after their dog dies” or “their kids get sick”…..how you gonna enforce stopping someone in China from using THC mold on a ceramic chip and selling it to someone here?
ekricket
Royal Flush
How about people just do what people are going to do, but don’t do it here.
Chips are great
Breaking the law or society norms isn’t great
Show your chips off, but like you say, nobody cares where they came from.
If anybody has learned anything here though, it should be that secret chips of any kind are not good for the overall health of this community.
Oh yeah, one other thing, those casino chips are casino property. Always have been, always will be. When they come for one kind, what’s to stop them from going after the other?
Cards molds with custom designs and/or tribute of open or closed casinos = Good
Cards molds that are exact copies of open or closed casinos, or other people's designs = Bad
TinHC mold knock-offs = Bad
You're welcome.
YOU CAN HAVE MY CERAMIC RHC KNOCKOFFS WHEN YOU PRY THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS!
bergs
Royal Flush
CHINAGB
bergs
Royal Flush
OK
FIGHT ME
Mmmmm ok.
OK, sure.
You're welcome.
You, sir. You win the internet today.
bergs
Royal Flush
You really think whoever owns the President New Yorker brand now is going to try to buy back all the PNY Paulson chips?
Also, my understanding is that alot of these chips came to market for us through the Chiproom purchasing them, invalidating whoever owns the property trademarks and such from trying to reclaim them somehow.
bergs
Royal Flush
I really don’t want it (drops it on sidewalk, leaves to make Palomas)You, sir. You win the internet today.
TheDuke
Full House
Outside of the box thinking.
The pending rise of TinaHC is really GPI's fault. As well as for the existence of NAGB chips.
If GPI had kept serving the home market, the masses would have been placated and wouldn't have resorted to unsavory tactics to feed their addictions.
Viewed as an addiction, chip affliction is really a healthcare issue. So we can probably heap some blame on government for a lack of a proper healthcare system as we look to place blame and shame.
The pending rise of TinaHC is really GPI's fault. As well as for the existence of NAGB chips.
If GPI had kept serving the home market, the masses would have been placated and wouldn't have resorted to unsavory tactics to feed their addictions.
Viewed as an addiction, chip affliction is really a healthcare issue. So we can probably heap some blame on government for a lack of a proper healthcare system as we look to place blame and shame.
I was not even remotely trying to address all or even some the problems with our hobby nor was I attempting to ignore them. I was just trying to stay on topic to the question the OP asked. So yes, card mold
Cards molds with custom designs and/or tribute of open or closed casinos = Good
Cards molds that are exact copies of open or closed casinos, or other people's designs = Bad
TinHC mold knock-offs = Bad
You're welcome.
Real Paulson RHC = Bad.
haha.
I won't own any actual Paulson RHC because they suck (more for you, yay!). -- my new rack of Harbor Light $500s are a temporary exception.
I think they (RHC) are ass-ugly, even if the flea-bite problem wasn't a thing.
Why in the world would we want a knock-off version of the worst chip mold ever?
Somebody call Tina and convert that crap to a scrown. Now we're talkin'!
ekricket
Royal Flush
Got that certificate of authenticity do you? Good news! I guess it might help when you file your 1099’s.
My inability to buy custom Paulsons hasn’t caused me to buy marginal chips on a garbage mold. But I’m beginning to think I’m special.
bergs
Royal Flush
Don’t take this the wrong way, but what in the actual name of fuck are you talking about? We shouldn’t own Paulsons now because someone may “want them back?”
Actually, I’m with you now.
“Guys, I’m an officially licensed agent of the Vineyard Church that replaced the casino and I’m gonna need back all them Vineyard Paulsons mmmmmmmkay?”
bergs
Royal Flush
Your inability to arbitrarily lower your standards exposes your weakness.
(Just paraphrasing what every Star Wars Sith Lord ever said to a Jedi about compassion).
TheDuke
Full House
It has caused people to go to extreme lengths to dupe GPI to produce NAGB chips. Which many prominent members buy without any cause for concern.
These folks create the demand - so these NAGB chips will continue to get made.
Who's at fault? The producer, the drug dealer, or the crackheads fueling the demand?
ekricket
Royal Flush
Where I’m at is the legal principal of “fuck with the other guy as much as possible”.
I don’t really believe anyone’s going to come for chips. But they could start something just to fuck with somebody and waste their resources. File about 7 injunctions for all kinds of things, even if they ultimately aren’t provable, just to get them to cave on the one you care about.
It’s like you never sued anyone before or something.
TheDuke
Full House
Unpopular opinion here.
If you currently own or have ever owned any NAGB chips, you're complicit with the current state of the poker chip hobby that has led to the creation of TinaHC.
It's the same damn attitude. You want chips at any cost. Regardless of the moral implications that led to the creation of what you wanted.
You can't look down at the people who are ordering these chips. They're approaching the hobby with the same mindset as you.
If you currently own or have ever owned any NAGB chips, you're complicit with the current state of the poker chip hobby that has led to the creation of TinaHC.
It's the same damn attitude. You want chips at any cost. Regardless of the moral implications that led to the creation of what you wanted.
You can't look down at the people who are ordering these chips. They're approaching the hobby with the same mindset as you.
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There is a huge difference between having (by maybe questionable means) original custom Paulson's created and designing/producing (albeit not great) counterfeits of live chips (but the new impending TinaRHC mold will make them better counterfeits). They are not even remotely the same thing.
You want to do replicas of NAGB or defunct retired casino chips, go for it. No problem. It's a very inexpensive way to have your own GOAT set. But when you start duplicating live chips, the casinos and law enforcement may want to talk to you. Good luck.
TheDuke
Full House
Copying someone's artwork or using someone else's IP may be ok with some folks, but there will always be others who are opposed.
However, some people view things as black and white. To them, wrong is wrong.
Having a copy of live chips may be someone else's way to have their own GOAT set.
What I'm saying is this isn't just a cards mold or TinaHC problem. This is an ingrained cultural issue within the poker chip hobby.
I agree, best of luck to those pushing the legal boundaries. Folks could soon be facing some consequences for their hobby.
Okay, but when did it become ingrained? Because I’ve only been in this hobby for like 6 years, but for most of that time, this wasn't acceptable. When I started, I read (almost literally) everything ever posted here and most of what was ever posted on the blue wall. And the only single thing I can remember like this was the ceramic vineyards. Not sure why the community made an exception for those. Or maybe there was some criticism and I missed it. But other than that, there weren’t copies. There were tributes. Similar, but easily noticeably different.
RichMahogany
Straight Flush
Ceramic Vineyards pre-date my time in the hobby but weren’t those sold by Holdem Poker Chips and manufactured by Chipco?
Don’t think they could’ve been produced without permission
Is it wrong that now I want a set of scrub donkeys on the counterfeit hat and cane mold? 
With permission from the artist(s) of course!
With permission from the artist(s) of course!
ekricket
Royal Flush
Haha people would get mad if you even mentioned their “copyrighted” art without asking first.
The world newbies are going to be quite surprised when the people that built this world realize that nobody has any interest in obeying their rules.
Those builders are very ruthless when unchained and unrestrained. You may mock them now, but they built this and they are very very capable of building a much nastier version for you to live in.
TheDuke
Full House
I think the idea of tributes/copycats/direct copies is something that has existed very early on.
The attitudes people hold towards these types of chips lies on a spectrum. Some people may view it as a black and white issue. And others are ok with it - but it varies. They're ok with tributes on some level - but at a certain point they draw their own personal line.
Back in Chiptalk days, there was a group who were opposed to virtually any type of tributes/copies. Called themselves the 'Creativity Alliance'. But the leader was viewed by many as a hypocrite - as he was ok with hawking china clay chips as legit compression clay.
Back when you could order custom BCCs, BCC was the ultimate arbitor of what was or wasn't acceptable. In today's world of custom clay, CPC will ultimately decide what they think is ok to produce in terms of tributes or whether they think it's too close.
Hobbyists have always tried pushing the boundaries on tributes, but historically the manufacturers shut them down.
But now we have a vendor based in a country that gives no fucks about right or wrong. So there's no pushback. They will make anything as long as they get paid.
GPI won't produce chips for retail. But people are resourceful and found a grey way to push through orders anyway.
To me, it's the same type of mindset. It's just on a spectrum of varying shades of grey. People will base it on their own value system and that may or may not align with the laws in their jurisdiction.
Sorry, I meant to say that if you want to make replicas of defunct or custom chips, great, got for it, as long as you have the proper permission to the IP.
Using someone else's IP without permission is NEVER ok. That is black and white. There is no moral grey here. Period.
But I don't care, it's illegal to create counterfeits. It does not matter if that is what they want and can find someone outside the country to produce it. It's illegal and we here should not accept or promote those sets or people who commission them. When I wanted to add a CPC frac on the scrown mold to my Jessie Beck's ( a casino not in business since 1979 ), I wanted the inlay to match exactly. But guess what, CPC would not produce it because it's not allowed. I had to change up the inlay and add words like "commemorative" to the design to insure it would not be confused as an original.
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