Have we finally reached market saturation?? (4 Viewers)

[ssanel54]

I don’t recall starburst being something offered or in the catalog. What would be the reason any casino would order that? I thought starburst were only used to cancel chips other than the starburst that were sold in the leaded days to the public

@BGinGA probably knows

I think it was in the roulette section with a bunch of other similar designs. I could be wrong though

 

[ssanel54]

Everything else aside, a 2g difference can be pretty noticeable.

Ever held a 24 vs 22g dart. It’s actually quite noticeable. Switching from a 22 to a 24g (or vice versa) dart can materially impact one’s game.

Not really that far fetched that people could feel a 2g difference.

I don’t argue this. It’s not the weight, it would be the composition of the dart whether it’s made of lead, steel, brass etc

 

[bergs]

Would never happen and if it did, the same douchebags who took advantage of him from the beginning would just be stepping on top of each other to do the same thing again.

The combination of “Fuck You Money,” and “Douchebagery” created a situation that will most likely never reverse itself.

How can everyone say that flippers are just taking advantage of a free market situation and it’s fine, but people selling to someone with deep pockets and getting top price are douchebags?

This place is fucking baffling the last few years.

 

[Thomacetti]

I don’t argue this. It’s not the weight, it would be the composition of the dart whether it’s made of lead, steel, brass etc

Nope, composition of leaded chips (fully leaded era) was not consistent either...some with minerals (shinny flakes), dyes/pigments vastly different between colors, ...

Looking at the two extremes...the heaviest leaded chips (on THC) are 12-ish gr / chip
The lightest chips are barely 8 gr

That is a 30 % weight difference for the same volume...while adding 2 gr on a 22gr dart is 9,1% (tungsten is even more dense (x1.7) then lead, so volume wise not noticeable)

You can 'feel' the difference of that 9% (speed of dart, compensation aim, ...), so a 30% hike must certainly be noticeable...even if the difference in weight is closer to 15% (average is closer to 2 gr)

 

[bergs]

But that’s my biggest complaint about him. He literally paid 2x-3x market rates for most of the stuff he bought. I guess if you were a seller in those days it was nice for you. But his shopping spree just served to raise the prices for all of us.

But free market blah blah fucking blah.

Nobody here can accept flippers and hate WW. It’s nonsensical.

 

[upNdown]

Yes exactly, but that also implies you don’t pull the leaded ones out as exceptional.

More importantly what household frac do you have with mixed formulas?

The union plaza arc yellow quarters - there are 6ish different versions. Some leaded, some not. Probably some in between.

 

[bergs]

As I recall, windwalker posted an angry rant one night because somebody refused to sell him PCA chips. I’m not sure about the details of that transaction, but it seemed pretty clear that windwalker took it personally. The next morning he posted a want to buy with inflated prices for each denom - I remember the $5 specifically at $1200 (and I think he bought 18 racks of those?) because I sold him my only rack because I realized I’d never get another at a reasonable price. (I had bought my rack just months earlier for $550.)

It wasn’t the first time he’d done this. The bourbon st. $5s were the first I recall. Same idea, somebody refused to sell him their bourbon st. $5s and he got PISSED. He actually disappeared from the site for a few days or a week. When he reappeared, it was with a picture of 10-20 racks of those exact chips, announcing he’d paid $1700 for them. Which was probably about 3x market price, give or take. It was a spite buy and it was obnoxious.

Free market brah.

 

[bergs]

The published numbers for the ES, AS, BTP, and SB come to about 280,000. Were there 2.7 million chips between the Chickens, Trumans, RPCs, and Tigers?

LOLOLOL. No, there weren’t 2.7M. I think I had around 5K Trumans and Chicken had around 12K chips. I guess we’re off by 2.683M?

 

[Budha]

I don’t argue this. It’s not the weight, it would be the composition of the dart whether it’s made of lead, steel, brass etc

Ok - that makes sense. I would not argue that I could determine the composition of a dart by feel - lol.

Although tungsten does feel more dense (and I do prefer leaded THC)

Anyway - Back to chips, I have not handled many newer production THC’s, so my perspective is admittedly limited, the vast majority of my chips are leaded. However I have a few individual, newer, non-leaded THC samples and there really is a huge difference in weight and feel compared to my older leaded chips.

It might be those few specific chips I have, but it was immediately discernible when I got them. My honest first reaction was, these kinda suck - from a weight and feel perspective.

 

[Lil Tuna]

How can everyone say that flippers are just taking advantage of a free market situation and it’s fine, but people selling to someone with deep pockets and getting top price are douchebags?

This place is fucking baffling the last few years.

I don’t believe I’ve ever said flippers taking advantage of a market situation was fine. Taking advantage of a guy with deep pockets throwing money at any and everything was “douchebagish” IMO.

On the flip side though, entitlement, instant gratification and a very high thought of one’s self because of one’s deep pockets combined with the douchebagery, most likely created much of what many dislike about the way things in this hobby are now.
IMO of course.

 

[upNdown]

Anyway - Back to chips, I have not handled many newer production THC’s, so my perspective is admittedly limited, the vast majority of my chips are leaded. However I have a few individual, newer, non-leaded THC’s sample sets and there really is a huge difference in weight and feel from my older leaded chips.

It might be those few specific chips I have, but it was immediately discernible when I got them. My honest first reaction was, these kinda suck - from a weight and feel perspective

Ditto. The only ones I had a lot of experience with were the Jerry's Nugget $1s. I had a couple of barrels of those in a heads up set that was otherwise all fully leaded, and I hated them. I tried to get used to them, but everything about them felt inferior. They were a nice looking chip that I tried to like, but couldn't.

 

[Lil Tuna]

 

[ekricket]

I think there’s a tiny percentage of chippers who shell out for those things. Yeah, you’re talking about A LOT of money coming out of the deepest pockets. But I think for the vast majority of us, those things just sort of soar above our heads and don’t really affect much.

So there is more than one rich person affecting “the market”? But only one matters right?
But when these rich guys overpay for stuff - and buy a lot of it - it has no affect in the market? Their money works different?

I’m not defending anyone, as there is nothing to defend here. There just seems to be a lot of double standard stuff no matter who is involved.

I think more harm is done by the MiniWalkers, those people that buy high priced chips and then sell them to their friends at a huge discount to “buy” friends. That’s about the only way they can retain a clique, but what it ends up doing is dividing groups of people into “this rich guys clique” and “this guy who wants everyone to think he’s rich but he’s just a doofus blowing his kid’s college money clique”.

 

[upNdown]

So there is more than one rich person affecting “the market”? But only one matters right?
But when these rich guys overpay for stuff - and buy a lot of it - it has no affect in the market? Their money works different?

Brother you have been coming at me relentlessly about this windwalker thing. What is up? I’m just saying I think the guy affected the market noticeably. I’m not blaming all the inflation in the chipping world on him. But I say a piece of it was him. Clearly you disagree. I get it.

 

[ekricket]

Brother you have been coming at me relentlessly about this windwalker thing. What is up? I’m just saying I think the guy affected the market noticeably. I’m not blaming all the inflation in the chipping world on him. But I say a piece of it was him. Clearly you disagree. I get it.

Not you, I don’t even pay attention to who I’m replying to when they are saying stupid stuff.
Sure WW affected the market. So did countless others who plowed big money into chips you weren’t particularly interested in. But you are immensely fixated on one time when you felt you are wronged, and there is more to it than that.

I’m just very puzzled by the dual standards that a lot of people exhibit here. One guy pays the exorbitant prices people are asking for a few top notch sets and all of a sudden he’s killed the entire market of chips. But countless others do the same thing and there’s apparently no effect. How does that work in your world?

If you’d quit hating on one guy maybe it wouldn’t be so bad, but there are literally dozens of people doing the same thing he did, and he’s been gone for months. Pick a new current member to hang this on since there has to be “a villain”.

I mean I just saw a $10,000 set sell in minutes. Why aren’t you bashing that guy for continuing to ruin the hobby?

Because you weren’t interested in those chips?

 

[doublebooyah85]

Not you, I don’t even pay attention to who I’m replying to when they are saying stupid stuff.
Sure WW affected the market. So did countless others who plowed big money into chips you weren’t particularly interested in. But you are immensely fixated on one time when you felt you are wronged, and there is more to it than that.

I’m just very puzzled by the dual standards that a lot of people exhibit here. One guy pays the exorbitant prices people are asking for a few top notch sets and all of a sudden he’s killed the entire market of chips. But countless others do the same thing and there’s apparently no effect. How does that work in your world?

If you’d quit hating on one guy maybe it wouldn’t be so bad, but there are literally dozens of people doing the same thing he did, and he’s been gone for months. Pick a new current member to hang this on since there has to be “a villain”.

“Few” is a bit of an understatement lol. I think myself has gone crazy on this set and I have 7-9 sets. He has probably 100? And cornered the market on several casinos.

And props to him. It’s awesome. But it certainly influenced pricing.

 

[ssanel54]

“Few” is a bit of an understatement lol. I think myself has gone crazy on this set and I have 7-9 sets. He has probably 100? And cornered the market on several casinos.

And props to him. It’s awesome. But it certainly influenced pricing.

Don’t sell yourself short. It’s a marathon not a sprint

 

[ekricket]

“Few” is a bit of an understatement lol. I think myself has gone crazy on this set and I have 7-9 sets. He has probably 100? And cornered the market on several casinos.

And props to him. It’s awesome. But it certainly influenced pricing.

Sure, one guy could. But then take a few hundred new members, and EACH ONE has 7-9 sets or more. Each one. That’s probably, but I’m not sure, going to have a bigger effect than just one single persons sets.

 

[upNdown]

But you are immensely fixated on one time when you felt you are wronged, and there is more to it than that.

No I’m not, you giant ass.
I didn’t want to get into it with you because I like you. But you need to be corrected because you’re drawing conclusions that suggest you have donkeybrains.

I’ve given a couple of examples of how windwalker affected the market. They were the strongest ones I can recall, but in reality, they are just two of many. It is YOU who are immensely fixated on one time you think I feel like I was wronged. The fact that I happened to have some skin in the game that time the guy set the market prices for PCAs (that remain in place 18 months later) doesn’t change the fact that THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
What about those Bourbon Streets that he paid $1700 a rack for? What about the prices he paid for all of those coke whatever? What about all the other examples that I don’t recall off the top of my head?

But you’d rather say I have a personal grudge than face the that that that guy did some damage. Why? I don’t know. Maybe you have your head up his ass. It sure seems that way. Because you’d rather die on the “upndown hates windwalker hill” than admit that the guy who everybody watched buy everything in sight for way over market value for more than a year might have affected our little economy.

 

[jja412]

 

[Budha]

when they are saying stupid stuff.

 

[ekricket]

No I’m not, you giant ass.
I didn’t want to get into it with you because I like you. But you need to be corrected because you’re drawing conclusions that suggest you have donkeybrains.

I’ve given a couple of examples of how windwalker affected the market. They were the strongest ones I can recall, but in reality, they are just two of many. It is YOU who are immensely fixated on one time you think I feel like I was wronged. The fact that I happened to have some skin in the game that time the guy set the market prices for PCAs (that remain in place 18 months later) doesn’t change the fact that THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
What about those Bourbon Streets that he paid $1700 a rack for? What about the prices he paid for all of those coke whatever? What about all the other examples that I don’t recall off the top of my head?

But you’d rather say I have a personal grudge than face the that that that guy did some damage. Why? I don’t know. Maybe you have your head up his ass. It sure seems that way. Because you’d rather die on the “upndown hates windwalker hill” than admit that the guy who everybody watched buy everything in sight for way over market value for more than a year might have affected our little economy.

Lol you guys sure are fixated on kissing ass. Like accusing me of being a suck up bolsters your argument. I’m not saying he didn’t affect it. He affected it just as much as anyone else has done by spending stupid money. It still continues today, yet that particular person has been gone months. Is it the behavior or is it the person? Cause the person is gone, but the behavior is still here.
Sure things take time, but after two or three TCR sales things should get normalizing. But they aren’t.

 

[Lil Tuna]

 

[ekricket]

Lol I have no delusions. I spout stupid shit all the time, especially when talking with people being stupid about stupid stuff.

 

[Budha]

Lol I have no delusions. I spout stupid shit all the time, especially when talking with people being stupid about stupid stuff.

maybe it’s not “them” - just saying…?

 

[Lil Tuna]

 

[k9dr]

I think it’s funny you brought up the soda analogy, as I kept thinking of those blind taste test where people are adamant that one tastes better than the other, when they were served two samples from the same bottle. I think it could be something fun to wager on at a meet up.

I did a psychology experiment in college on the Coke vs Pepsi challenge - it's actually a dominant hand preference. We had volunteers sign in so we could determine if they were right or left handed. We did a blind taste test offering them two cups of the same soda at the same time. Most swore they could tell the difference and over 90% preferred the drink offered on their dominant hand side.

It's easy to see how Coke could have influenced the results by offering their soda on the right since there are many more right handed people than left handed.

 

[Rieguy]

 

[Lil Tuna]

I did a psychology experiment in college on the Coke vs Pepsi challenge - it's actually a dominant hand preference. We had volunteers sign in so we could determine if they were right or left handed. We did a blind taste test offering them two cups of the same soda at the same time. Most swore they could tell the difference and over 90% preferred the drink offered on their dominant hand side.

It's easy to see how Coke could have influenced the results by offering their soda on the right since there are many more right handed people than left handed.

 

[Lil Tuna]

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