Mike mac
4 of a Kind
i host now so that i can drink in a "safe zone " lol
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Home Game Regular Stealing Chips (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter merkong
- Start date
Old State
Full House
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2016
- Messages
- 3,634
- Reaction score
- 5,883
as a professional drunk player who has taken out drywall , told the hosts GF to put her crying baby in a dryer, been in multiple situations i can tell you that a drunk person is acting out what he secretly would do sober. so if you have a player that steals chips drunk, he wants to steal them sober.
ban him. let him find a game with like minded people.
my 2 cents
fyi, i dont steal when drunk
Mr. Cheese
Full House
I caught a player cheating years ago. Honestly cant remember what he did even if it was looking at the next card when he was dealing during a regular poker game or if we were playing ofcp and he cheated but he was banned from my game immediately. I know he wants to play again and I play with him at another members games here but I refuse to let him play at my game.
SendThatStack
3 of a Kind
Player at my game was super drunk and had a huge stack, he wins a big pot and then absorbs his neighbors tiny stack of reds and greens. He got called out immediately. We are going to try and put a leash on him as far as how drunk he keeps getting.
OP
OP
merkong
Full House
I’m going to discuss our situation with the others involved tonight. I’ll render a final decision this week regarding his ultimate date. Right before I read your response I did decide that it (contrary to popular forum opinion) I decide to reinstate, the drinking would have to be addressed especially since I believe it was the impetus.
Was your incident intentional do you think?
Thanks for your reply.
Was your incident intentional do you think?
Thanks for your reply.
OP
OP
merkong
Full House
Copied from another thread as an update.
As I sit here right now, having reconverted the card room back to a card room after Christmas I can say that I am approximately 99% sure I will not be reinstating the perpetrator who put this host in quite the unenviable position of having to rule on his swiping of a chip from a pot.
He did not immediately reach out the next day even though he knew I had him. Recall, in the moment, the winner of the pot realized he was missing a $5 chip from the pot (there were only two in it) and I took corrective action; “Spills accidentally scooped it.” He did object for a second but tossed it over. Also recall, I felt I didn’t need a dust up right then and there. He was drunk and would have obviously denied it and the game may have soured for the night. I proceeded to empty his pockets and planned on dealing with it the next day. Now you’re all caught up.
I run a clean, safe, and fair game. Several folks have referred to my game as “classy.” The equipment, the atmosphere, everything. I spread a nice game. I don’t want to bring back a regular who violated a foundational rule in poker games and put the integrity of my game at risk.
As we pick up new players, if this were to become known that the game allows this well it would be the beginning of the end. The game means too much to my players. It means too much to me.
There’s a lot of things you can do at a home game and get a second chance. Plug up the toilet, drink all the beer, puke, have an outburst but something on this level is an almost automatic oust. I only pitched it to the forum to make sure I wasn’t missing something and had it right.
On that note, when I did call the perpetrator out about 48 hours later he did not deny it (I’m surprised he remembered the look he gave me when our eyes met mid-swipe - he was hammered) and that quick admission which led to him having a conversation with the victim and a lengthy, remorseful (what do you expect) text to me, validated what I witnessed. Nobody needed to support my eyewitness account but I was so steadfast in my position on what I saw that they chose to. For that I thanked him.
I probably will not notify him that he’s been permanently removed in the too near future but likely will. My thoughts on the integrity of the game I’ve worked so hard to build will shield him from thinking it’s personal because it’s not. As a matter of fact my affection towards him bought him some time in limbo. I will let the victim (my future son in law), my daughter, and the two others that know what I’ve decided.
I’d play elsewhere but I run a game like no other that I’ve played in which is why I host.
Thanks for all the feedback and support during this difficult time lol
It was hard. If I didn’t know him etc etc it would have been much easier and they would have been removed immediately. It was Spills. He went to high school with 60 some % of my players. Way to go Spills. Don’t shit where you eat.
Thanks again.
Ken - Just the host of a classy home poker game in MN.
As I sit here right now, having reconverted the card room back to a card room after Christmas I can say that I am approximately 99% sure I will not be reinstating the perpetrator who put this host in quite the unenviable position of having to rule on his swiping of a chip from a pot.
He did not immediately reach out the next day even though he knew I had him. Recall, in the moment, the winner of the pot realized he was missing a $5 chip from the pot (there were only two in it) and I took corrective action; “Spills accidentally scooped it.” He did object for a second but tossed it over. Also recall, I felt I didn’t need a dust up right then and there. He was drunk and would have obviously denied it and the game may have soured for the night. I proceeded to empty his pockets and planned on dealing with it the next day. Now you’re all caught up.
I run a clean, safe, and fair game. Several folks have referred to my game as “classy.” The equipment, the atmosphere, everything. I spread a nice game. I don’t want to bring back a regular who violated a foundational rule in poker games and put the integrity of my game at risk.
As we pick up new players, if this were to become known that the game allows this well it would be the beginning of the end. The game means too much to my players. It means too much to me.
There’s a lot of things you can do at a home game and get a second chance. Plug up the toilet, drink all the beer, puke, have an outburst but something on this level is an almost automatic oust. I only pitched it to the forum to make sure I wasn’t missing something and had it right.
On that note, when I did call the perpetrator out about 48 hours later he did not deny it (I’m surprised he remembered the look he gave me when our eyes met mid-swipe - he was hammered) and that quick admission which led to him having a conversation with the victim and a lengthy, remorseful (what do you expect) text to me, validated what I witnessed. Nobody needed to support my eyewitness account but I was so steadfast in my position on what I saw that they chose to. For that I thanked him.
I probably will not notify him that he’s been permanently removed in the too near future but likely will. My thoughts on the integrity of the game I’ve worked so hard to build will shield him from thinking it’s personal because it’s not. As a matter of fact my affection towards him bought him some time in limbo. I will let the victim (my future son in law), my daughter, and the two others that know what I’ve decided.
I’d play elsewhere but I run a game like no other that I’ve played in which is why I host.
Thanks for all the feedback and support during this difficult time lol
It was hard. If I didn’t know him etc etc it would have been much easier and they would have been removed immediately. It was Spills. He went to high school with 60 some % of my players. Way to go Spills. Don’t shit where you eat.
Thanks again.
Ken - Just the host of a classy home poker game in MN.
Ken, sounds like you figured it just fine. Not worth the extra stress and disrespect as a host, think you did the right thing. Good luck.
Not for nothing, but your enjoyment as a host (not to mention potentially your own game) may suffer if he returns and you have to divert your attention to “security” issues.
agree with everyone else, drunk or not he’s revealed his true nature and that behavior (both stealing and arguing with someone else‘s GF) has to go.
not a true friend if he put you in that spot. Good luck moving forward — these are the tough spots as a host for sure But you seem like you are handling it well.
agree with everyone else, drunk or not he’s revealed his true nature and that behavior (both stealing and arguing with someone else‘s GF) has to go.
not a true friend if he put you in that spot. Good luck moving forward — these are the tough spots as a host for sure But you seem like you are handling it well.
SendThatStack
3 of a Kind
There was zero chance the incident at my game was intentional. He's a guy that gets really drunk just about every time he comes which is its own issue that I am getting sick of as he is a sloppy drunk and slows down the game and it annoys people.
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When you were talking about welcoming him back, my thought was this - as a host, if I invited that guy back I’d feel an obligation to tell all my players (and any new ones who show up in the future) exactly what the guy did. I think they’re entitled to know. And that would be awkward.
OP
OP
merkong
Full House
Aside from that I just wouldn’t feel like my game was “clean”
Again, “Hello everyone. This is spills. He steals.”
Lol - yeah no
Again, “Hello everyone. This is spills. He steals.”
Lol - yeah no
Merkong, I don't disagree with what anyone else has said. I would remove him and I would tell him why.
It has been almost 10 years since I removed a player. I'll call him TM (for Trouble Maker). We played in a weekly game together for over a year. I invited him to my game like I did all the players from that game. One night he said he wanted to come. I said, "OK, but you will have to behave." I said it because he had gotten belligerent at that game a few times, though never with me.
TM came to my game drunk. We had 21 that night at 2 tables. TM and I were at the same table, but opposite ends of an 8 ft. table. He got KO'd by the guy next to him. He stuck around for a while. I won that night, so I didn't learn until later that TM was harassing the guy who KO'd him. He went into the other room and made numerous inappropriate comments to several females, including to my wife and daughter! My wife had picked up my daughter from the airport and neither were involved in the game. They were talking in the kitchen when TM spoke to them, but our second table is in the breakfast nook right next to the kitchen. He later went outside, and as one of my son's and a friend came home, TM informed them they couldn't come in. He said he was security. My son said he lived there and ignored him. His friend was very uncomfortable with that, but did come in.
When the game was over, several people stayed to discuss what took place. For me, it was all news! I didn't know there was any problem, but there were a lot of problems TM engaged in. Had he been in a TDA or WSOP game, they would have removed him permanently, at least their rules say they would. (I'm not really doubting that.) I got complaints from more than half the people who were at our house that night, and deliberately didn't talk to two other guests who hosted games who I put in the category of not making complaints. I didn't want to prejudice him in their games.
I wrote TM a letter outlining why he was being removed, but also letting him know the problem was his drinking. I let him know it wasn't personal, and said if he got that under control, I'd invite him back. I'm leaving out a lot of details, but I'll at least share these thoughts others haven't discussed.
In reading this, so you know my perspective, I'm an attorney. I'm pretty detailed and fact oriented. What I'm offering here is not legal advice though. However, I am what I am and I do see things from a legal perspective. I think by training and experience, what I'll offer up is pretty practical.
I'd write out the details of the situation. Obviously you have done at least some of that here, but you've not shared all the facts, and I'm not suggesting you should. I'd keep it in a file, and you might from time-to-time revisit it and update it, especially if new things come up from that. The more details, the better. I wrote out the facts as they occurred, because my situation involved other people, another game we were both a part of, and two key witnesses who were going to be witnesses to any discussion I might have had.
If you talk to him, I'd definitely want at least two witnesses to the conversation. That way he knows others witnessed the conversation. I'd use two because at least under US law, it takes to witnesses to prove a matter. Now, I don't think you will ever have any court involvement over this, but who knows what he might say later? Having two witnesses will at least give a couple of people who could dispute any bogus claims he might make. Without witnesses, a "he said, she said" situation could easily arise.
I'd do more than just write out the facts. I'd also provide whatever written analysis you can, and even the facts and analysis of the witnesses. They may see things you might miss or did not know about. I'd make it clear to the witnesses you do not intend to stop them from playing with villain in other venues. If they play in other venues with the villain, that might be doing both the villain and other hosts a favor because he would be aware that there were witnesses who could dispute what he says, and other hosts might not have to deal with a similar situation.
Another reason to write it all out, including your discussions with the witnesses, is that over time, your memory of the incident will fade. You may also, if you revisit what you wrote later, see things in retrospect you don't see initially. He could for some reason, come back and request to be reinstated. "I've changed. Could I come back?" Whether you allow it or not, you will have a record of facts and analysis, how those facts affected other players and potentially other hosts. If you felt like reinstatement was appropriate, you could at least make sure you've addressed the issues before allowing reinstatement, or point out all the issues that have to be addressed. You might also decide, "I'll forgive, but I won't restore," is an acceptable option. Either decision is easier to make if you have all the facts, analysis, and witnesses.
In life, on several occasions, I've been very thankful I wrote out things like this contemporaneously. When the villains come back, the will find I've documented way better than they imagined. Sometimes I think they thought they could retire for a time, lick their wounds, and then storm back and try to make me the bad guy. More often, they never have come back, at least not yet.
Another reason for the effort is that you don't know what that villain will tell others, who may at some point try to help resolve it in a way favorable to him. That could happen with people who you don't even know right now. I'm about to take a sabbatical for a few months, and in trying to find others who would host in the interim, I've discovered that the ones I found know the player involved, and they have some knowledge of what happened years ago. At least one commented I did what others should have done with him. Since my game might become a rotating game, I might suddenly have contact with that player again. I'm glad, if it comes up, I've got the records. When I wrote it out originally, it was 7 pages of 8.5"x11", single-spaced, 12 point type. I just checked it and it's now 10 pages. That means 30% of what is there I didn't have originally but added as I thought of it or learned new things I didn't have then.
Hope this helps.
It has been almost 10 years since I removed a player. I'll call him TM (for Trouble Maker). We played in a weekly game together for over a year. I invited him to my game like I did all the players from that game. One night he said he wanted to come. I said, "OK, but you will have to behave." I said it because he had gotten belligerent at that game a few times, though never with me.
TM came to my game drunk. We had 21 that night at 2 tables. TM and I were at the same table, but opposite ends of an 8 ft. table. He got KO'd by the guy next to him. He stuck around for a while. I won that night, so I didn't learn until later that TM was harassing the guy who KO'd him. He went into the other room and made numerous inappropriate comments to several females, including to my wife and daughter! My wife had picked up my daughter from the airport and neither were involved in the game. They were talking in the kitchen when TM spoke to them, but our second table is in the breakfast nook right next to the kitchen. He later went outside, and as one of my son's and a friend came home, TM informed them they couldn't come in. He said he was security. My son said he lived there and ignored him. His friend was very uncomfortable with that, but did come in.
When the game was over, several people stayed to discuss what took place. For me, it was all news! I didn't know there was any problem, but there were a lot of problems TM engaged in. Had he been in a TDA or WSOP game, they would have removed him permanently, at least their rules say they would. (I'm not really doubting that.) I got complaints from more than half the people who were at our house that night, and deliberately didn't talk to two other guests who hosted games who I put in the category of not making complaints. I didn't want to prejudice him in their games.
I wrote TM a letter outlining why he was being removed, but also letting him know the problem was his drinking. I let him know it wasn't personal, and said if he got that under control, I'd invite him back. I'm leaving out a lot of details, but I'll at least share these thoughts others haven't discussed.
In reading this, so you know my perspective, I'm an attorney. I'm pretty detailed and fact oriented. What I'm offering here is not legal advice though. However, I am what I am and I do see things from a legal perspective. I think by training and experience, what I'll offer up is pretty practical.
I'd write out the details of the situation. Obviously you have done at least some of that here, but you've not shared all the facts, and I'm not suggesting you should. I'd keep it in a file, and you might from time-to-time revisit it and update it, especially if new things come up from that. The more details, the better. I wrote out the facts as they occurred, because my situation involved other people, another game we were both a part of, and two key witnesses who were going to be witnesses to any discussion I might have had.
If you talk to him, I'd definitely want at least two witnesses to the conversation. That way he knows others witnessed the conversation. I'd use two because at least under US law, it takes to witnesses to prove a matter. Now, I don't think you will ever have any court involvement over this, but who knows what he might say later? Having two witnesses will at least give a couple of people who could dispute any bogus claims he might make. Without witnesses, a "he said, she said" situation could easily arise.
I'd do more than just write out the facts. I'd also provide whatever written analysis you can, and even the facts and analysis of the witnesses. They may see things you might miss or did not know about. I'd make it clear to the witnesses you do not intend to stop them from playing with villain in other venues. If they play in other venues with the villain, that might be doing both the villain and other hosts a favor because he would be aware that there were witnesses who could dispute what he says, and other hosts might not have to deal with a similar situation.
Another reason to write it all out, including your discussions with the witnesses, is that over time, your memory of the incident will fade. You may also, if you revisit what you wrote later, see things in retrospect you don't see initially. He could for some reason, come back and request to be reinstated. "I've changed. Could I come back?" Whether you allow it or not, you will have a record of facts and analysis, how those facts affected other players and potentially other hosts. If you felt like reinstatement was appropriate, you could at least make sure you've addressed the issues before allowing reinstatement, or point out all the issues that have to be addressed. You might also decide, "I'll forgive, but I won't restore," is an acceptable option. Either decision is easier to make if you have all the facts, analysis, and witnesses.
In life, on several occasions, I've been very thankful I wrote out things like this contemporaneously. When the villains come back, the will find I've documented way better than they imagined. Sometimes I think they thought they could retire for a time, lick their wounds, and then storm back and try to make me the bad guy. More often, they never have come back, at least not yet.
Another reason for the effort is that you don't know what that villain will tell others, who may at some point try to help resolve it in a way favorable to him. That could happen with people who you don't even know right now. I'm about to take a sabbatical for a few months, and in trying to find others who would host in the interim, I've discovered that the ones I found know the player involved, and they have some knowledge of what happened years ago. At least one commented I did what others should have done with him. Since my game might become a rotating game, I might suddenly have contact with that player again. I'm glad, if it comes up, I've got the records. When I wrote it out originally, it was 7 pages of 8.5"x11", single-spaced, 12 point type. I just checked it and it's now 10 pages. That means 30% of what is there I didn't have originally but added as I thought of it or learned new things I didn't have then.
Hope this helps.
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Zero tolerance for theft. Not invited back and likely would not play in someone else's home game where he was invited.
Mr Winberg
Full House
@merkong, I think you handled it well.
I had an issue with a cheater at a cashgame I hosted last month. He's a reg that tried to take a whole pot that wasn't his (not just a single chip), but I'm gonna give him one more chance. At least.
What happened was that a new guy was sitting to my left. The whole table had been a bit unfocused, a lot of chit chat so the pace was a lot slower than usual. I was a bit worried that he would think that this is how it always is in my game.
A woman who is a bit of a newb wins a medium sized pot. She sits at at the table end, so I start dragging the chips for her while I tell the new guy "Sorry, the pace isn't usually this slow. For some reason people are unfocused tonight...". The woman interrupts me with "Ehh...What are you doing?". I look up at her confused. Then I realize that I have neatly stacked all her newly won chips in my stack! The table bursts out laughing. I'm like "I have no idea how large that pot was, but here" and give her a bunch of fives. My wife (also playing) says "Well I don't think the pot was that big" but I'm like "It is now!".
The commotion settles and I once again turn to the new guy: "As I was saying, they're usually not this unfocused..."
I had an issue with a cheater at a cashgame I hosted last month. He's a reg that tried to take a whole pot that wasn't his (not just a single chip), but I'm gonna give him one more chance. At least.
What happened was that a new guy was sitting to my left. The whole table had been a bit unfocused, a lot of chit chat so the pace was a lot slower than usual. I was a bit worried that he would think that this is how it always is in my game.
A woman who is a bit of a newb wins a medium sized pot. She sits at at the table end, so I start dragging the chips for her while I tell the new guy "Sorry, the pace isn't usually this slow. For some reason people are unfocused tonight...". The woman interrupts me with "Ehh...What are you doing?". I look up at her confused. Then I realize that I have neatly stacked all her newly won chips in my stack! The table bursts out laughing. I'm like "I have no idea how large that pot was, but here" and give her a bunch of fives. My wife (also playing) says "Well I don't think the pot was that big" but I'm like "It is now!".
The commotion settles and I once again turn to the new guy: "As I was saying, they're usually not this unfocused..."
Nope. Once a cheater, always a cheater. That player should have gotten an INSTA-BAN!
There is a certain level of trust that is required when playing at home games. If anyone violates that trust I’d not allow them back. I like how you avoided a fight at the moment but if other players think your game has cheating….
Dont use ellipses, ellipses suck, finish your sentence.
Ok, I’ll…..
grebe
Full House
12 paragraphs...lol.
(I read the whole thing and it was well written. This was the only funny part though)
isthisevencreative
High Hand
That’s crazy doubt he would be invited back
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Didn't even read the rest of the post, that's a ban-hammer.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
This is a more interesting question. I would land on "no" in a world where electronic communication is possible. I think an e-mail outlining the decisions and reasons (at least at first) is sufficient. If a conversation results where it might be good to do a face-to-face, then play that by ear. But I don't think villain should get to demand a face-to-face for this indiscretion.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
You must have a stare that defies intoxication
.Good on you for landing on the right thing. And I think it's good to be deliberate about these sorts of decisions, given you know the long term impacts. I am fortunate I haven't had to do anything that serious since my college days (we found a player removing cards, had to ban), so I don't envy your spot.
OP
OP
merkong
Full House
The “ban-hammer.” Well, at least I know what it’s called.
Samuel
Straight
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Spoiler
2PBilly
New Member
He gone. Not much to debate.
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