PAHWM Poker Mavens PL 5-Carad Omaha Hi-Lo (20-50) Blinds 0.25/0.5 (2 Viewers)

[warma]

I thought someone mentioned that flushes are a dead person’s dream and that it’s boats or better for the win.

Given you have two pair and could make a boat, and it’s your money, POT!

 

[kirchhausen]

Game: PL 5-Card Omaha Hi-Lo (20 - 50) - Blinds 0.25/0.25
Site: Rungood Lounge
Table: Casual Thursday
Seat 1: V1 (641.25) SB
Seat 2: V2 (120.75) BB
Seat 3: Hero (759.25) UTG/Hijack
Seat 8: V3 (52.25) Button

Don't let the stakes fool you, these players are sharks.

V1 - This player mixes it up. When playing well he is possibly the best player in our group, with great situational awareness, and selective aggressiveness. We all play together quite a bit, and he is capable of exploiting others play better than anyone else here when he is on his game. When he is off his game, he is just super LAG, bloating pot pre-flop, and trying to bet people off pots. Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

V2 - When on his game, he is the other contender for best player in our group. Super laggy, is not afraid to get it in at any time. His one weakness, he is very tilt prone. And when he tilts, boy does he tilt. H=Not sure how much he is down tonight at this point, but best guess is that he is on for around $500 (yes 10 buyins), and has built his most recent buy-in up to $120.75

Hero - I am not tight, by any means, but by far the tightest player in this group of 4 players tonight. In for about $150, Stack is $759.25 to start the hand. Not sure that the other players have noticed how few hands I have played tonight (long term history probably overriding tonight's statistics) but I have seen less than 30% of flops tonight, in a mostly 4-handed (at times 5 and 6 handed table) with most games split pot 5 card. I probably have a reputation for being able to be blown off hands. I can also be a little passive in this group, as I know I can generally let others do the betting for me when I need to. I am the least degen by far of this group.

V3 - What can I say about this guy? Supper aggro, bloating every pot. He books the biggest wins and losses in our group. Tuesday night, He was stuck $1400 at one point before making a comeback and finishing up ~$2.7k (those stakes were .25/50 $200 max buy-in). Tonight he is stuck heaps again, probably over $1k at this point. Only down 20 buy-ins, NBD he'll get it back.

V3 has the dealer button
V1 posts small blind 0.25
V2posts big blind 0.25
** Hole Cards ** [4 players]



Dealt to Hero [ ]


Hero raises to 1
V3raises to 3.50
V1 calls 3.25
V2 calls 3.25
Hero calls 2.50
** Flop ** [ ]
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks
V3 bets 14
V1 calls 14
V2 folds
Hero calls.
** Turn ** []
V1 checks
---------------------------------------------------------
Hero decides to check here, with the intent of Check raising. V3 is always going to bet all-in here (bet $34.75 into a pot of $56). Hopefully V1 comes along (he knows V3 is super wide range here too) and we can pot, getting that extra $34.

as expected:
Vb bets 34.75 (All-in),
V1 calls 34.75 (yay! Our plan is working!!)
Hero raises to 195

Then the unexpected happens:
V1 raises to 435.25

Thoughts on:
1) decision to Check raise
2) bet size of of my raise
3) holy crap I got raised?!?!? What to do now?

 

[Hornet]

I love the check raise and am fine with bet sizing. In terms of what to do, I’m pretty sure I fold unless villain tends to make moves like this with a set and a flush.

 

[JMC9389]

Game: PL 5-Card Omaha Hi-Lo (20 - 50) - Blinds 0.25/0.25
Site: Rungood Lounge
Table: Casual Thursday
Seat 1: V1 (641.25) SB
Seat 2: V2 (120.75) BB
Seat 3: Hero (759.25) UTG/Hijack
Seat 8: V3 (52.25) Button

Don't let the stakes fool you, these players are sharks.

V1 - This player mixes it up. When playing well he is possibly the best player in our group, with great situational awareness, and selective aggressiveness. We all play together quite a bit, and he is capable of exploiting others play better than anyone else here when he is on his game. When he is off his game, he is just super LAG, bloating pot pre-flop, and trying to bet people off pots. Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

V2 - When on his game, he is the other contender for best player in our group. Super laggy, is not afraid to get it in at any time. His one weakness, he is very tilt prone. And when he tilts, boy does he tilt. H=Not sure how much he is down tonight at this point, but best guess is that he is on for around $500 (yes 10 buyins), and has built his most recent buy-in up to $120.75

Hero - I am not tight, by any means, but by far the tightest player in this group of 4 players tonight. In for about $150, Stack is $759.25 to start the hand. Not sure that the other players have noticed how few hands I have played tonight (long term history probably overriding tonight's statistics) but I have seen less than 30% of flops tonight, in a mostly 4-handed (at times 5 and 6 handed table) with most games split pot 5 card. I probably have a reputation for being able to be blown off hands. I can also be a little passive in this group, as I know I can generally let others do the betting for me when I need to. I am the least degen by far of this group.

V3 - What can I say about this guy? Supper aggro, bloating every pot. He books the biggest wins and losses in our group. Tuesday night, He was stuck $1400 at one point before making a comeback and finishing up ~$2.7k (those stakes were .25/50 $200 max buy-in). Tonight he is stuck heaps again, probably over $1k at this point. Only down 20 buy-ins, NBD he'll get it back.

V3 has the dealer button
V1 posts small blind 0.25
V2posts big blind 0.25
** Hole Cards ** [4 players]



Dealt to Hero [ ]


Hero raises to 1
V3raises to 3.50
V1 calls 3.25
V2 calls 3.25
Hero calls 2.50
** Flop ** [ ]
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks
V3 bets 14
V1 calls 14
V2 folds
Hero calls.
** Turn ** []
V1 checks
---------------------------------------------------------
Hero decides to check here, with the intent of Check raising. V3 is always going to bet all-in here (bet $34.75 into a pot of $56). Hopefully V1 comes along (he knows V3 is super wide range here too) and we can pot, getting that extra $34.

as expected:
Vb bets 34.75 (All-in),
V1 calls 34.75 (yay! Our plan is working!!)
Hero raises to 195

Then the unexpected happens:
V1 raises to 435.25

Thoughts on:
1) decision to Check raise
2) bet size of of my raise
3) holy crap I got raised?!?!? What to do now?

1. Check raising or potting out is fine here. Does V1 have it in him to do this with a set or lesser non straight flush? If hero's perceived image to the other villains is that they can be blown off of hands, I'm sure that they know this and use it to their advantage.

2. The sizing is fine. V1 was repotting no matter what.

3. Can't be afraid of monsters under the bed. Hero has nut flush plus outs to fill up. All in. If V1 has KJ or J8, you go for a walk, punch a hole in the wall, cry in the corner for an orbit, and rebuy.

 

[Hornet]

3. Can't be afraid of monsters under the bed. Hero has nut flush plus outs to fill up. All in. If V1 has KJ or J8, you go for a walk, punch a hole in the wall, cry in the corner for an orbit, and rebuy.

Hero potentially has 4 cards to fill up, but could easily be drawing dead. Let’s think about villain’s range here. To me, either he has the straight flush or a set and a flush. A lot of this is player specific, but raising from $195 to $435 with basically just a set and bad spades (when hero has blockers to top two sets) seems reckless, especially against hero who is perceived as the tightest player in the lineup.

I also am relying on this for my fold …

Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

 

[bergs]

Hero potentially has 4 cards to fill up, but could easily be drawing dead. Let’s think about villain’s range here. To me, either he has the straight flush or a set and a flush. A lot of this is player specific, but raising from $195 to $435 with basically just a set and bad spades (when hero has blockers to top two sets) seems reckless, especially against hero who is perceived as the tightest player in the lineup.

I also am relying on this for my fold …

On the flip side, being the tightest player in this lineup does not mean you play tight. V1 and V3 are looser than a rusted out lug nut in a ‘56 Chevy.

Also, hero has shown nothing but weakness thus far with his check call lines. His hand does indeed look like a set or a straight draw with an inferior flush.

Backdoor low draw I snap shove.

This spot, yeesh. V1 is capable of putting him on this hand and making this an isolation bluff type bet.

Spin a 10 sided die, 0-3 I call, 4-9 I fold - if I’m playing well. If I’m not I’m jamming and oh well…

 

[JMC9389]

Hero potentially has 4 cards to fill up, but could easily be drawing dead. Let’s think about villain’s range here. To me, either he has the straight flush or a set and a flush. A lot of this is player specific, but raising from $195 to $435 with basically just a set and bad spades (when hero has blockers to top two sets) seems reckless, especially against hero who is perceived as the tightest player in the lineup.

I also am relying on this for my fold …

This is 100% a meta game of "does Hero know that V1 knows that Hero can get blown off of the nut flush". Hero essentially for better or worse with the check raise is playing face up.

If hero is in a lock it down mode having 10x'ed his initial buy in, I may find a fold, but playing live against villains with no previous hand history against, this is a tight fold.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

On the flip side, being the tightest player in this lineup does not mean you play tight. V1 and V3 are looser than a rusted out lug nut in a ‘56 Chevy.

Also, hero has shown nothing but weakness thus far with his check call lines. His hand does indeed look like a set or a straight draw with an inferior flush.

Backdoor low draw I snap shove.

This spot, yeesh. V1 is capable of putting him on this hand and making this an isolation bluff type bet.

Spin a 10 sided die, 0-3 I call, 4-9 I fold - if I’m playing well. If I’m not I’m jamming and oh well…

How is check potting the turn a sign of weakness? If anything it's a sign of "I have the ace high flush!" V1 is a smart cookie, and knows this, he absolutely has to have the straight flush here (and there are 2 combos, j8 and kj). It sucks, but you have to fold here.

 

[bergs]

How is check potting the turn a sign of weakness? If anything it's a sign of "I have the ace high flush!" V1 is a smart cookie, and knows this, he absolutely has to have the straight flush here (and there are 2 combos, j8 and kj). It sucks, but you have to fold here.

My bad, I thought he check called turn for some reason.

Yeah fold is the right play here though I honestly wouldn’t put it by v1 to be making a sicko raise here to try to isolate v3. V1 knows v3 is tighter than anyone else in the group.

 

[bergs]

I wasn’t there for this hand but the checkraise iso bluff would be a disgustingly sick move here, and v1 knows he couldn’t pull it off against literally anyone else in this player pool.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Exactly what I was expecting (by virtue of the fact that you posted the hand).

On a scale of 1–10, how face-up would you say your hand is, as of the check-raise? Would V1 ever expect you to make this move with less than the ace-high flush? If no, would V1 make a power play on your obvious ace-high flush with anything less (which at best would be a set drawing to fill up)? And of course, this is pertinent:

Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

It sure reeks of the straight flush. I'm just not sure how reasonable it is to get away from it at this table.

 

[Eriks]

Wow what a hand! Any chance he’d do this with a set and the jack of spades?

 

[Jimulacrum]

 

[kirchhausen]

Game: PL 5-Card Omaha Hi-Lo (20 - 50) - Blinds 0.25/0.25
Site: Rungood Lounge
Table: Casual Thursday
Seat 1: V1 (641.25) SB
Seat 2: V2 (120.75) BB
Seat 3: Hero (759.25) UTG/Hijack
Seat 8: V3 (52.25) Button

Don't let the stakes fool you, these players are sharks.

V1 - This player mixes it up. When playing well he is possibly the best player in our group, with great situational awareness, and selective aggressiveness. We all play together quite a bit, and he is capable of exploiting others play better than anyone else here when he is on his game. When he is off his game, he is just super LAG, bloating pot pre-flop, and trying to bet people off pots. Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

V2 - When on his game, he is the other contender for best player in our group. Super laggy, is not afraid to get it in at any time. His one weakness, he is very tilt prone. And when he tilts, boy does he tilt. H=Not sure how much he is down tonight at this point, but best guess is that he is on for around $500 (yes 10 buyins), and has built his most recent buy-in up to $120.75

Hero - I am not tight, by any means, but by far the tightest player in this group of 4 players tonight. In for about $150, Stack is $759.25 to start the hand. Not sure that the other players have noticed how few hands I have played tonight (long term history probably overriding tonight's statistics) but I have seen less than 30% of flops tonight, in a mostly 4-handed (at times 5 and 6 handed table) with most games split pot 5 card. I probably have a reputation for being able to be blown off hands. I can also be a little passive in this group, as I know I can generally let others do the betting for me when I need to. I am the least degen by far of this group.

V3 - What can I say about this guy? Supper aggro, bloating every pot. He books the biggest wins and losses in our group. Tuesday night, He was stuck $1400 at one point before making a comeback and finishing up ~$2.7k (those stakes were .25/50 $200 max buy-in). Tonight he is stuck heaps again, probably over $1k at this point. Only down 20 buy-ins, NBD he'll get it back.

V3 has the dealer button
V1 posts small blind 0.25
V2posts big blind 0.25
** Hole Cards ** [4 players]



Dealt to Hero [ ]


Hero raises to 1
V3raises to 3.50
V1 calls 3.25
V2 calls 3.25
Hero calls 2.50
** Flop ** [ ]
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks
V3 bets 14
V1 calls 14
V2 folds
Hero calls.
** Turn ** []
V1 checks
Vb bets 34.75 (All-in),
V1 calls 34.75 (yay! Our plan is working!!)
Hero raises to 195

Then the unexpected happens:
V1 raises to 435.25
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
After thinking about it for a few, I thought he just had to have the straight flush. My check raise was super strong, and for V1 to not only raise, 4 bet after my own check raise was even stronger. I mean its not like he can bluff with bare because I have it. If he has a set (of which I block several) I think he either takes check call or check fold line.

If it was one of the crazies, I probably just go with the hand, but V1 was playing his A+ game. While sucky it was a pretty clear fold.

Spoiler: Results

Hero folds
V1 Refunded 240.25
** River ** [}
V1 wins Side Pot 1 (320.50)
Rake (0) Pot (320.50) Players (V1: 160.25, V2: 0, Hero: 160.25, V3: 0)
** Main Pot Show Down ** [ ]
V1 shows [ ] (Hi: a Straight Flush, Nine to King Lo: None)
V3 shows [ ] (Hi: Trips, Deuces +QT Lo: None)
V1 wins Main Pot (160.25) with a Straight Flush
There was no low
Rake (0) Pot (160.25) Players (V1: 52.25, V2: 3.50, Hero: 52.25, V3: 52.25)
V3 adds 50 chips

 

[JMC9389]

That's so sick.

 

[kirchhausen]

That's so sick.

Yeah I don't know that I have ever invested 850BBs into a pot only to fold. Just glad I went with my gut and not my heart.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Game: PL 5-Card Omaha Hi-Lo (20 - 50) - Blinds 0.25/0.25
Site: Rungood Lounge
Table: Casual Thursday
Seat 1: V1 (641.25) SB
Seat 2: V2 (120.75) BB
Seat 3: Hero (759.25) UTG/Hijack
Seat 8: V3 (52.25) Button

Don't let the stakes fool you, these players are sharks.

V1 - This player mixes it up. When playing well he is possibly the best player in our group, with great situational awareness, and selective aggressiveness. We all play together quite a bit, and he is capable of exploiting others play better than anyone else here when he is on his game. When he is off his game, he is just super LAG, bloating pot pre-flop, and trying to bet people off pots. Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

V2 - When on his game, he is the other contender for best player in our group. Super laggy, is not afraid to get it in at any time. His one weakness, he is very tilt prone. And when he tilts, boy does he tilt. H=Not sure how much he is down tonight at this point, but best guess is that he is on for around $500 (yes 10 buyins), and has built his most recent buy-in up to $120.75

Hero - I am not tight, by any means, but by far the tightest player in this group of 4 players tonight. In for about $150, Stack is $759.25 to start the hand. Not sure that the other players have noticed how few hands I have played tonight (long term history probably overriding tonight's statistics) but I have seen less than 30% of flops tonight, in a mostly 4-handed (at times 5 and 6 handed table) with most games split pot 5 card. I probably have a reputation for being able to be blown off hands. I can also be a little passive in this group, as I know I can generally let others do the betting for me when I need to. I am the least degen by far of this group.

V3 - What can I say about this guy? Supper aggro, bloating every pot. He books the biggest wins and losses in our group. Tuesday night, He was stuck $1400 at one point before making a comeback and finishing up ~$2.7k (those stakes were .25/50 $200 max buy-in). Tonight he is stuck heaps again, probably over $1k at this point. Only down 20 buy-ins, NBD he'll get it back.

V3 has the dealer button
V1 posts small blind 0.25
V2posts big blind 0.25
** Hole Cards ** [4 players]



Dealt to Hero [ ]


Hero raises to 1
V3raises to 3.50
V1 calls 3.25
V2 calls 3.25
Hero calls 2.50
** Flop ** [ ]
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks
V3 bets 14
V1 calls 14
V2 folds
Hero calls.
** Turn ** []
V1 checks
Vb bets 34.75 (All-in),
V1 calls 34.75 (yay! Our plan is working!!)
Hero raises to 195

Then the unexpected happens:
V1 raises to 435.25
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
After thinking about it for a few, I thought he just had to have the straight flush. My check raise was super strong, and for V1 to not only raise, 4 bet after my own check raise was even stronger. I mean its not like he can bluff with bare because I have it. If he has a set (of which I block several) I think he either takes check call or check fold line.

If it was one of the crazies, I probably just go with the hand, but V1 was playing his A+ game. While sucky it was a pretty clear fold.

Spoiler: Results

Hero folds
V1 Refunded 240.25
** River ** [}
V1 wins Side Pot 1 (320.50)
Rake (0) Pot (320.50) Players (V1: 160.25, V2: 0, Hero: 160.25, V3: 0)
** Main Pot Show Down ** [ ]
V1 shows [ ] (Hi: a Straight Flush, Nine to King Lo: None)
V3 shows [ ] (Hi: Trips, Deuces +QT Lo: None)
V1 wins Main Pot (160.25) with a Straight Flush
There was no low
Rake (0) Pot (160.25) Players (V1: 52.25, V2: 3.50, Hero: 52.25, V3: 52.25)
V3 adds 50 chips

Excellent fold. Far more about discipline than anything other single factor.

 

[kirchhausen]

Excellent fold. Far more about discipline than anything other single factor.

Thanks!

I agree, it's very easy to say after the fact "clear fold" or whatnot, but in the moment when you have so much invested in the hand it can be really hard to fight the urge to sell yourself "well V MAY be bluffing" even when there is not really a logical line that would lead you there. It is probably my biggest struggle in poker.

 

[bergs]

Thanks!

I agree, it's very easy to say after the fact "clear fold" or whatnot, but in the moment when you have so much invested in the hand it can be really hard to fight the urge to sell yourself "well V MAY be bluffing" even when there is not really a logical line that would lead you there. It is probably my biggest struggle in poker.

If V1 has been drinking and playing loose you can’t find a fold there. That’s something I struggle with online big time - I lose any feel I have live for how people are playing on a given night.

 

[kirchhausen]

If V1 has been drinking and playing loose you can’t find a fold there. That’s something I struggle with online big time - I lose any feel I have live for how people are playing on a given night.

Yeah, sometimes it is not as easy but we had both been playing a while. We both were up at least 12 buyins at this point, so I had more than enough table time to realize he was playing well and the other two villains were flinging poo.

Of course if we were only 3 or 4 buyins deep it would have all gone in anyway.

This specific type of hand and decision can really only come up when you have both been playing for a long time (or if buyins are super deep, which they are not here.

 

[Kain8]

Game: PL 5-Card Omaha Hi-Lo (20 - 50) - Blinds 0.25/0.25
Site: Rungood Lounge
Table: Casual Thursday
Seat 1: V1 (641.25) SB
Seat 2: V2 (120.75) BB
Seat 3: Hero (759.25) UTG/Hijack
Seat 8: V3 (52.25) Button

Don't let the stakes fool you, these players are sharks.

V1 - This player mixes it up. When playing well he is possibly the best player in our group, with great situational awareness, and selective aggressiveness. We all play together quite a bit, and he is capable of exploiting others play better than anyone else here when he is on his game. When he is off his game, he is just super LAG, bloating pot pre-flop, and trying to bet people off pots. Tonight, he is playing his A+ game, is up I believe from his initial $50 to $641.25. Even though were are only 4-handed, t=he has been a lot tighter than usual pre (and post flop), Have not seen him get it in bad at all so far tonight

V2 - When on his game, he is the other contender for best player in our group. Super laggy, is not afraid to get it in at any time. His one weakness, he is very tilt prone. And when he tilts, boy does he tilt. H=Not sure how much he is down tonight at this point, but best guess is that he is on for around $500 (yes 10 buyins), and has built his most recent buy-in up to $120.75

Hero - I am not tight, by any means, but by far the tightest player in this group of 4 players tonight. In for about $150, Stack is $759.25 to start the hand. Not sure that the other players have noticed how few hands I have played tonight (long term history probably overriding tonight's statistics) but I have seen less than 30% of flops tonight, in a mostly 4-handed (at times 5 and 6 handed table) with most games split pot 5 card. I probably have a reputation for being able to be blown off hands. I can also be a little passive in this group, as I know I can generally let others do the betting for me when I need to. I am the least degen by far of this group.

V3 - What can I say about this guy? Supper aggro, bloating every pot. He books the biggest wins and losses in our group. Tuesday night, He was stuck $1400 at one point before making a comeback and finishing up ~$2.7k (those stakes were .25/50 $200 max buy-in). Tonight he is stuck heaps again, probably over $1k at this point. Only down 20 buy-ins, NBD he'll get it back.

V3 has the dealer button
V1 posts small blind 0.25
V2posts big blind 0.25
** Hole Cards ** [4 players]



Dealt to Hero [ ]


Hero raises to 1
V3raises to 3.50
V1 calls 3.25
V2 calls 3.25
Hero calls 2.50
** Flop ** [ ]
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks
V3 bets 14
V1 calls 14
V2 folds
Hero calls.
** Turn ** []
V1 checks
Vb bets 34.75 (All-in),
V1 calls 34.75 (yay! Our plan is working!!)
Hero raises to 195

Then the unexpected happens:
V1 raises to 435.25
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
After thinking about it for a few, I thought he just had to have the straight flush. My check raise was super strong, and for V1 to not only raise, 4 bet after my own check raise was even stronger. I mean its not like he can bluff with bare because I have it. If he has a set (of which I block several) I think he either takes check call or check fold line.

If it was one of the crazies, I probably just go with the hand, but V1 was playing his A+ game. While sucky it was a pretty clear fold.

Spoiler: Results

Hero folds
V1 Refunded 240.25
** River ** [}
V1 wins Side Pot 1 (320.50)
Rake (0) Pot (320.50) Players (V1: 160.25, V2: 0, Hero: 160.25, V3: 0)
** Main Pot Show Down ** [ ]
V1 shows [ ] (Hi: a Straight Flush, Nine to King Lo: None)
V3 shows [ ] (Hi: Trips, Deuces +QT Lo: None)
V1 wins Main Pot (160.25) with a Straight Flush
There was no low
Rake (0) Pot (160.25) Players (V1: 52.25, V2: 3.50, Hero: 52.25, V3: 52.25)
V3 adds 50 chips