Switch to Casino not going well.. (2 Viewers)

[GoStumpy]

Last night was just brutal for me... It doesn't help that even a 1/2 game is pretty well above my bankroll...

Every month or two me and a friend go to the casino to play the $100 deep stack tourney.. So far I've lost with AK VS AQ all in pre, AA VS QJ on a QJ6 flop, and AA VS T8s on a 555 flop with running tens.

That's just bad luck each time, there's no way I'm not getting it in with those hands. Right?

Cash game after, up to about $200, get KK, two raises in front to 17, I make it 60, guy behind calls, fold fold, flop comes 862 rainbow... I go all in for ~140 left, about a pot bet... He had aces.

Damnit.

Is this normal and just keep at it? I have enough bankroll to keep playing but I hate starting my casino run on so many losses.. Probably down 600-1000 so far

Then again I could get all that back on a good night?

 

[manamongkids]

your bankroll should be about 30 buyins for your stakes at the casino. Running into AA with KK is just a cooler hand, nothing you can do

 

[BiGGyT]

Put your remaining bankroll on black and SPIN THE WHEEL! Broke or back to even, depends how much of a degenerate gambler you are.

FWIW, you were up before the cooler. Shake it off and buy back in for $100.

 

[eXtremum]

Running into AA with KK is just a cooler hand, nothing you can do

Pretty standard, in a casino.

 

[jbutler]

If you're looking for sympathy for the runbad, no problem - everyone needs to vent from time to time. We've certainly all been there. But if the hands you posted above are actually causing you to question anything you really need to stop playing any game but the tiniest of stakes until you are better able to immediately understand that those hands are simply coolers and mean literally nothing about your level of skill or your overall strategic approach to the game.

Also, unless you have made some kind of commitment to play poker only with a set amount of money and you can never again add to that money by any other means but poker winnings, don't worry about your bankroll. You don't have a bankroll. You have a job and expendable income (presumably). The stakes you play and the amount you put on the table should be relative to your discretionary income, not an amount you have arbitrarily determined to be a bankroll.

As a general piece of advice, $1/2 NLHE in a casino can often seem like a crapshoot. The absolute value of the chips at risk for the majority of players do not encourage disciplined play, so variance will be higher than elsewhere in the card room. Barring unique circumstances, you should play the game in an extremely straightforward manner and settle in for the long haul because by the time you get a large enough sample size of your live play (it will take years), the data you can glean from it will likely be irrelevant by virtue of changes in the conditions of the game and the development of your own game.

 

[GoStumpy]

Wow that well written with many great points . Thank you!

 

[joker80]

it's going to be difficult to win the tournament because there is always 30-50 people playing . I wouldn't sit down at the 1/2 without 3-4 buy ins readily available because situations like AA vs KK happen all the time.

 

[GoStumpy]

The tournament at least is fun and enjoyable, I just have lost every time with the best hand, coolered every time. But I've only played 3-4 times.

Online I have a bankroll, I play with minimum 20 and maximum 60 buyins... Well rolled is key, I definitely understand bankroll management.. And it's completely true, I don't have a live poker bankroll, that is the primary reason to be so bummed when it goes sideways due to a bad run

 

[detroitdad]

The tournament at least is fun and enjoyable, I just have lost every time with the best hand, coolered every time. But I've only played 3-4 times.

Online I have a bankroll, I play with minimum 20 and maximum 60 buyins... Well rolled is key, I definitely understand bankroll management.. And it's completely true, I don't have a live poker bankroll, that is the primary reason to be so bummed when it goes sideways due to a bad run

3-4 times isn't a big enough sample to go off of. If you consistently play solid poker you will end up a winning player.

B

 

[GoStumpy]

Yeah this was obviously just a vent post of how my foray (that's the word I was looking for) into live casino poker has started out rough.

Been a breakeven to winning player in online poker since 2009, never had to redeposit, so I think I have fundamentals down. After this I'm going to re-read Theory of Poker and maybe find a new book about cash games. I know I can sit down there and be a profitable player long-run, it does suck to not have a bankroll to just reload with though!

 

[manamongkids]

ABC poker at 1/2 NL, play your middling suited connectors in position, and dont be afraid to make huge preflop raises, people have a tendency to blast off on their short buyins at 1/2

 

[H|Q]

when under rolled take the small ball approach. No need to shove stacks with one pair, control the pot size and try not to inflate.

 

[justsomedude]

As a general piece of advice, $1/2 NLHE in a casino can often seem like a crapshoot. The absolute value of the chips at risk for the majority of players do not encourage disciplined play, so variance will be higher than elsewhere in the card room.

THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are some maniac $1/$2 NLHE players out there. And I hate to use stereotypes... but watch out for the asian dude who keeps throwing out hundos every time he busts out. That dude is a CALLING STATION, and there's 8-10 of 'em in EVERY card room in the country! These guys need a "Living for the Gambol" hat!

When you play against people who don't care about money, you're gonna lose crazy hands. As for your KK v AA, gotta just suck that one up and move on. As the saying goes, "nothing you can do there but lose."

 

[RowdyRawhide]

If you are just getting into Casino play with a certain amount of discretionary income, you can always try the limit tables. You won't get rich quick, but I always find them fun, friendly and laid back. Plenty of straight and flush runner runner chasers to typically make it interesting in my experience. I personally get as much enjoyment (maybe more sometimes) out of a good 3/6 LHE table as I do out of a 1/2 NLHE.

 

[GoStumpy]

Unforuntaely there's no limit tables, just a single or two tables of 1/2... that's it

 

[Jimulacrum]

Every month or two me and a friend go to the casino to play the $100 deep stack tourney.. So far I've lost with AK VS AQ all in pre, AA VS QJ on a QJ6 flop, and AA VS T8s on a 555 flop with running tens.

That's just bad luck each time, there's no way I'm not getting it in with those hands. Right?

Hard to say without knowing the specific situations. What I've found is that there's usually a bigger picture. Sure, you got your money in good in 2/3 of these examples, but these three hands didn't happen in a vacuum. You surely played a bunch of hands before these memorable losses.

What was your play like up to that point? How many chips did you and your opponents have left? How exactly did these hands play out?

This stuff matters. In fact, it often matters a lot more than the bad beat story you came away with. Tournament poker in particular isn't just about waiting for premium starting hands and getting all of your chips in the middle.

Cash game after, up to about $200, get KK, two raises in front to 17, I make it 60, guy behind calls, fold fold, flop comes 862 rainbow... I go all in for ~140 left, about a pot bet... He had aces.

That one's just a cooler. Especially with only 100 BB, you're not getting away from KK there.

Damnit.

Is this normal and just keep at it? I have enough bankroll to keep playing but I hate starting my casino run on so many losses.. Probably down 600-1000 so far

Then again I could get all that back on a good night?

That is a bit of a dip (though not a huge one, honestly, for $100 tourneys and $1/$2 NLHE). It makes me wonder if your online experience is actually an impediment to your live play. It also makes me wonder if you're playing scared money.

Again, as to the cash games, this hand only accounts for one $200 loss, but you lost more than that. Bigger picture? What's your approach to the game? What is the field like? These details can be important.

 

[joker80]

If you are just getting into Casino play with a certain amount of discretionary income, you can always try the limit tables. .

There aren't any limit tables where he plays. (I live in the same city)

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Unforuntaely there's no limit tables, just a single or two tables of 1/2... that's it

There aren't any limit tables where he plays. (I live in the same city)

I can sympathize there aren't any in my local casino either. In fact they are closing the poker room altogether so they can turn it into a bingo room. WOOHOO!! ......i mean BINGO!(n) :thumbsdown:

at least there is one an hour away from me though

 

[H|Q]

THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are some maniac $1/$2 NLHE players out there. And I hate to use stereotypes... but watch out for the asian dude who keeps throwing out hundos every time he busts out. That dude is a CALLING STATION, and there's 8-10 of 'em in EVERY card room in the country! These guys need a "Living for the Gambol" hat!

I'm mildly offended at this, mostly because I'm that Asian dude.

I learned a new phrase from one of my cousins at the card table...

"No gamble, no future." I need that on a shirt or a hat.


BTW- Not really offended in the least.

 

[GoStumpy]

Hard to say without knowing the specific situations. What I've found is that there's usually a bigger picture. Sure, you got your money in good in 2/3 of these examples, but these three hands didn't happen in a vacuum. You surely played a bunch of hands before these memorable losses.

What was your play like up to that point? How many chips did you and your opponents have left? How exactly did these hands play out?

This stuff matters. In fact, it often matters a lot more than the bad beat story you came away with. Tournament poker in particular isn't just about waiting for premium starting hands and getting all of your chips in the middle.

What I remember most is that I was doing pretty well each time, and both AA hands I was up almost double my starting stack and just got it into against an even bigger stack...ahead.

Imagine how happy I would be if those went the other way, the way the statistics say they should go... I would have had double the next stack in the tournament, been able to pick my moves for a long time... On the cash table I would have doubled up + ~$40 to around $440, and would have been ecstatic... and definitely played a couple more orbits before pocketing the win

 

[David O]

Coolers! Happens but if you play the odds correctly you will come out on top in the long run. There will be a time that you won't steam about it and play on unbothered by what happens. Remembering a go calls you with a 10-1 dog you generally win the other 9 times. Keep your head up and establish s true bankroll separate form your household income. Easier to track and never have to sell your house if you lose it all!!!

 

[GoStumpy]

I can't wait until I can play live poker with the state of mind (and bankroll) of online poker, lol.

Already set aside a cash "play money" or savings to do things like this with so I never have to take from a paycheque... got a few decent ticket items coming up for sale soon and promised myself I would take $1000 from it minimum and establish a dedicated poker bankroll... underrolled, but at least rolled. Then I can add to that whenever possible.

 

[jbutler]

I'm mildly offended at this, mostly because I'm that Asian dude.

This would actually be a good t-shirt.

 

[eXtremum]

THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are some maniac $1/$2 NLHE players out there. And I hate to use stereotypes... but watch out for the asian dude who keeps throwing out hundos every time he busts out. That dude is a CALLING STATION, and there's 8-10 of 'em in EVERY card room in the country! These guys need a "Living for the Gambol" hat!

When you play against people who don't care about money, you're gonna lose crazy hands. As for your KK v AA, gotta just suck that one up and move on. As the saying goes, "nothing you can do there but lose."

I've ran into a few of these, in the UK, playing the £300-max like Wile E. Coyote with ACME rockets, on .50/£1, at the city centre casino. They're mainly college kids.

 

[H|Q]

This would actually be a good t-shirt.

Does it come in "extra fat". Not a normal Asian body type.

 

[justsomedude]

This would actually be a good t-shirt.

WANT

 

[Jimulacrum]

What I remember most is that I was doing pretty well each time, and both AA hands I was up almost double my starting stack and just got it into against an even bigger stack...ahead.

Imagine how happy I would be if those went the other way, the way the statistics say they should go... I would have had double the next stack in the tournament, been able to pick my moves for a long time... On the cash table I would have doubled up + ~$40 to around $440, and would have been ecstatic... and definitely played a couple more orbits before pocketing the win

This still doesn't tell me a lot. It's hard to say if you're making mistakes without knowing your overall approach to the game or even the specifics of these example hands. Having twice the starting stack is pretty nice in level 1, but can be meaningless or even a bad thing in level 13, and it does matter how you got that stack. I also can't help but notice that every hand you've mentioned is a top 10% type of starting hand, and that leads me to believe you're playing some variation of the tight-aggressive strategy that everyone "knows" is "correct" even though it's only correct for certain situations.

This is reminding me of a guy I play with semi-regularly in a local $30 tourney that typically runs 2 tables. It's mostly older people who play nitty poker, and this guy is the nittiest and most predictable of them all. A couple months ago, we played a hand where it was my 55 versus his 66 all-in preflop. I caught a 5 and busted him, and he still talks (read: whines) about it to this day. In the big picture, though, it was not even a truly significant hand. It was a must-shove, must-call spot that said nothing about either of us.

What he doesn't talk about are the 13 times I stole his big blind, while he shook his head and muttered "Nah, can't play this" or "You probably got me out-kicked" before folding a better hand than mine. He doesn't talk about the 9 hands where I used position to steal small and medium pots from him on the flop and turn. He doesn't talk about the 5 hands where he lost major value by betting into me instead of checking and letting me bet.

He also doesn't talk about how obvious it is when his big-ace hand misses the board or his small pair fails to spike a set. He doesn't talk about how little attention he pays to stack sizes and implied odds. He doesn't talk about how easy it is to get value out of him with strong hands because he gets mega-sticky if he has top pair or better. He doesn't talk about the fact that any half-adept player who has sat with him for more than a couple hours could read his range with hilarious accuracy.

I'm not saying you're this guy—whom I like as a person, BTW, despite my brutally honest assessment of his game. What I'm saying is that there's so much more to this guy's game that he's not seeing because he chooses to only focus on the big hands where "My aces got cracked!" or "I can't believe you played 9-high for a raise!" That's pretty much all I'm seeing in your posts so far, and it's not much to work with. I can sympathize with running into shitty luck, but I'm sure there was much more to your sessions than these four hands.

 

[Forty4]

Thank god I only play Jim online for <$20.

Although I'm sure I would love to play live with him and discuss my play after. Guess I'm just not sure what his lesson fee is.

 

[BukNaked36]

I recommend the totally unscientific approach - go to another casino

I know it doesn't make any sense, but if you have another place to play, I'd suggest giving it a try

 

[GoStumpy]

Another thing I could be looking at is that I only play cash after the deepstack tournament on Tuesday nights... probably not the best night profit wise to be at the cash game? Half the players at the table are the regulars that go to the tournament...

Perhaps I should be doing cash and stick to Friday or Saturday nights..