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Switch to Casino not going well.. (1 Viewer)

GoStumpy said:
Another thing I could be looking at is that I only play cash after the deepstack tournament on Tuesday nights... probably not the best night profit wise to be at the cash game? Half the players at the table are the regulars that go to the tournament...

Perhaps I should be doing cash and stick to Friday or Saturday nights..
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Lots of Regulars there most nights Some of the regulars are quite loose calling stations, but it takes a few games to know who is who. There are more tourists on the weekend though.
 
GoStumpy said:
Another thing I could be looking at is that I only play cash after the deepstack tournament on Tuesday nights... probably not the best night profit wise to be at the cash game? Half the players at the table are the regulars that go to the tournament...

Perhaps I should be doing cash and stick to Friday or Saturday nights..
Click to expand...

I think that makes sense. It helps get you our of your current routine and hopefully see some new faces that are a little weaker players.

I also think there is something to be said for being able to start off with a mellower "take it as it comes to you" cash game mindset, as opposed to a "I gotta find a spot to get it in" tourney mindset.
 
Also MTT regulars are quite often terrible cash game poker players, don't let this intimidate you at the table.

My advice, each time you have a decision to make during a hand, take a second and think about each of your options and which one you think is more profitable and why. When the right decision is not clear to you, post the details of those hands in this thread. These spots are far more valuable when it comes to evaluating play and improving your game overall.
 
Ordinary decision would be an early raise to 15, one call, then on us with QJ OR JT... Call along as long as there are no aggressive people behind? Or raise it up to isolate... Or fold because there are people to act behind?
 
GoStumpy said:
Ordinary decision would be an early raise to 15, one call, then on us with QJ OR JT... Call along as long as there are no aggressive people behind? Or raise it up to isolate... Or fold because there are people to act behind?
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I'd be tightening up and folding these pre. The problem with these hands are unless you flop the nuts you are throwing away $$. If you hit top pair you can get in serious trouble with kicker issues.

LP I don't mind a call as much, just need to be disciplined enough to throw top pair hands away when facing aggression.
 
GoStumpy said:
Ordinary decision would be an early raise to 15, one call, then on us with QJ OR JT... Call along as long as there are no aggressive people behind? Or raise it up to isolate... Or fold because there are people to act behind?
Click to expand...

How to play those hands is very situational.

Stack sizes? Number of players at the table? Our position? Raiser's and caller's positions? Our table image? How often does the raiser raise? How often does the caller call raises? How do both of them play post-flop? Who is left to act, and how do they play pre- and post-flop?

All of these things can dramatically affect the best way to play in a marginal situation like this. Given a $200 stack and a short bankroll, I'd lean toward folding, but a lot of favorable answers to some of those questions could swing me toward raising. Calling would rarely be right if we're playing $200 effective (at most) at a full table, as we're barely even getting implied odds to set-mine, never mind drawing at unpaired low Broadway cards.
 
When you are posting hands it's important to include as much information as possible.

As a minimum you need stack size and positions for all players in the hand and the action that has unfolded up to the point of your decision.

Then you also need to include as much information about the kind of players they are as well. The more you practice this approach the more you will realise what information is relevant and what isn't.

A hand like QJs primary value comes from flopping strong draws, and some reasonable one pair hands that have some showdown value. I would try and play this hand IP in smaller pots.
 
A lot of good advice so far. I experienced a few really bad beats in the fall of 2013 that really preoccupied me for a while. Learning to move on to the next hand without being affected by a bad beat is a sign of progress. Don't let these hands effect your play or mental game.

I rarely have the time to play anymore. My last game was at a $2/$5 table this past May where I had the misfortune of running into Aces with pocket Kings after adding around $250 to my buy-in during the first 40 minutes of play. Without going into details, I lost my stack.

Normally, I don't play $2/$5, yet this was the first time where I bought back in without any negative emotions from suffering a bad beat.

What thoughts went through my mind?? How he played his hand, and how I played mine. What I had learned about the playing styles of the others at the table.

I finished the night up $620. (Actually $600 - I tipped the dealer $20 after I racked my chips.) I don't believe the evening's outcome would have been the same if I had instead felt burned by my loss, or upset at my misfortune.
 
I've read and am reading The Mental Game by Jared Tindler and it is a great resource for emotion control, something of which in my normal online game I have Zero issue with... Live, I know my game, and I know what I know from online poker, but I am still nervous ish playing pots live, and I'm pretty sure the better players are picking up the main leaks in my game...

However there lies one of the more important points perhaps, much like online poker, try to avoid getting into big pots vs the good players unless you have a monster, and play more pots with the obvious fish, and make the calling stations Pay...

I am confident my next trip to the casino will be significantly better game-wise after this thread :). Lots of reflection which is good, gets me past the cooler-focus and onto what to do, not what cards came
 
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GoStumpy said:
Last night was just brutal for me... It doesn't help that even a 1/2 game is pretty well above my bankroll...

Every month or two me and a friend go to the casino to play the $100 deep stack tourney.. So far I've lost with AK VS AQ all in pre, AA VS QJ on a QJ6 flop, and AA VS T8s on a 555 flop with running tens.

That's just bad luck each time, there's no way I'm not getting it in with those hands. Right?

Cash game after, up to about $200, get KK, two raises in front to 17, I make it 60, guy behind calls, fold fold, flop comes 862 rainbow... I go all in for ~140 left, about a pot bet... He had aces.

Damnit.

Is this normal and just keep at it? I have enough bankroll to keep playing but I hate starting my casino run on so many losses.. Probably down 600-1000 so far :(

Then again I could get all that back on a good night?
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All anyone can do is get their money in good, as you seemingly did. If you're starting a career to make even just a side living, you're gonna have to plan for huge, sustained swings in EV. You just happen to have run into one from the jump.
 
Just ordered these:

Professional No-Limit Hold 'em: Volume I
No Limit Hold 'em: Theory and Practice
Mental Game of Poker
No Limit Poker: Theory and Practice

These were regarded pretty universally as must-have books.

I have Mental Game on ebook, but the thing keeps skipping chapters and going back chapters on me, ironically tilting the hell out of me :)
 
While waiting for these books I am going to re-read Theory of Poker, it's been at least 3-5 years since I read that one
 
Went tonight with $500 at the 1/2, sat down with $250, tons of garbage hands... Let me preface this with my biggest error of the night was not moving seats. I sat down and a younger guy that I know is GOOD sat to my left. That should have been my redflag to move ASAP. Why the hell I didn't is mostly because I didn't even think of it... was concentrating on playing not table selecting! OOPS.

Also, it was a fresh table so all stack sizes were fairly even, no big stacks, and none of my hands involved a short stack.

Three hands stick out to me:

Hand1: About an hour in I got Aces, and raise to $10, 4 callers. Flop comes something like 367 with two clubs.. I lead out for ~$30, and first guy goes over the top to like $150 or $175... basically took a stack of $25's and threw it in.

I realize he's quite likely betting a flush draw, maybe a straight draw too... MAYBE he hit a set, that seems possible with the overbet to confuse me...

I ended up folding, he mentioned that any club or 4 helped him, so he had the gutshot with the FD. I did not have the ace of clubs... too tight of a laydown?

Hand2: I get AK on the button, three or four limpers, I raise button to $15. Guy in SB on my left, a really good player, repops to $60. I think and fold like a flipping idiot, I think I should have called the $45 and seen a flop, if I bink a A or K, jam it, if not, fold.

Hand3: QJ suited in late position, I raise to $10, guy to my left calls, and crazy guy raises to $50. Guy to my left will definitely call... was I incorrect to fold here? A bunch of action happened later in the hand as I expected it would, but as it turns out I would have hit a Q and won with my J kicker over guy to my left that had Q6.


Overall down ~$300 for the night... ugh.
 
TAG vs. LAG is a rough matchup. Just play your best cards in position, or try to mix up your game a bit.
 
There are several things in your post that make you exploitable. Lack of confidence. Playing with scared money. These two together may cause you to give off tells or signs as to what would likely be their optimal play against you. (If they don't already know through prior observation.)

Mix up your pre-flop bets.

Find a good low stakes home game. One that you are comfortable with.

Don't go back to the casino until you are a winning player at that game.
 
I don't know of any home cash games in my area, and I've been looking :( Bought chips to start a .25/.50 or .50/.1 game and have yet to get enough people to commit to even getting a game going...

I am thinking that it will take practice and getting comfortable, and that will mean going semi regularly and just playing good poker... I mean, if I had any damn hands worth playing I could be here telling you how I doubled my buyin and am comfortably rolled for poker.. I'm just conceding the fact that nothing has gone well so far, I've had no straights, no straight draws, no flush draws, whether priced in or priced out, and only a couple overpairs that were the proper folds. My sessions are only 2-3 hours long, so it doesn't surprise me that I got aces once, queens once, eights, and AK. Those were my best hands of the night. 3 of the 4 were obvious losers, or close calls... the AK was obviously a mistake.

Changing seats would probably have been a game-changer for me. I beat online poker, and I destroy local pub games, however I think I need to get comfortable in the casino, and not play with scared money.

Looking forward to a couple grand coming my way in the near future with the sale of a vehicle though, which will definitely fund some poker monies, however I am not going again on a Tuesday night when all the regulars are there, the GOOD regulars... I will be planning a Friday or Saturday visit to the Casino, and TABLE SELECT!!!

And this will all be after I read a couple of those books I ordered :) Contrary to my 'ugh' I'm not THAT bummed about the money lost today, it's just a buyin really, and it was definitely 'not my night' card wise.
 
Pokerstars or Bovada?? Local pub games?!?

Sorry to have rained on your parade.
 
Mojo1312 said:
Pokerstars or Bovada?? Local pub games?!?

Sorry to have rained on your parade.
Click to expand...

No rain on this parade... Been playing Pokerstars since 2009, haven't had to deposit since... never really put a lot of time in and done very strict BR management so I'm just now at 5nl... but I have no chance of busto. Pretty big difference between that and my Casino roll, lol.

Pub games are freeroll only and tournaments only, been playing them a long time too and have done very well overall.
 
GoStumpy said:
Hand1: About an hour in I got Aces, and raise to $10, 4 callers. Flop comes something like 367 with two clubs.. I lead out for ~$30, and first guy goes over the top to like $150 or $175... basically took a stack of $25's and threw it in.

I realize he's quite likely betting a flush draw, maybe a straight draw too... MAYBE he hit a set, that seems possible with the overbet to confuse me...

I ended up folding, he mentioned that any club or 4 helped him, so he had the gutshot with the FD. I did not have the ace of clubs... too tight of a laydown?

Hand2: I get AK on the button, three or four limpers, I raise button to $15. Guy in SB on my left, a really good player, repops to $60. I think and fold like a flipping idiot, I think I should have called the $45 and seen a flop, if I bink a A or K, jam it, if not, fold.

Hand3: QJ suited in late position, I raise to $10, guy to my left calls, and crazy guy raises to $50. Guy to my left will definitely call... was I incorrect to fold here? A bunch of action happened later in the hand as I expected it would, but as it turns out I would have hit a Q and won with my J kicker over guy to my left that had Q6.


Overall down ~$300 for the night... ugh.
Click to expand...

Couple of suggestions. For the first hand you could consider buying in lighter. When you play smaller stacks it basically makes your decisions a little easier. I think you have to be prepared to go all in with AA with a flop like that. Someone could be trying to raise to protect their KK or QQ there as well. If your stack is more like 150 as apposed to 250 , it makes it an easier decision to make given a coin flip scenario.

Hand 2- definitely call and see a flop. You won't necessarily have to jam to take the pot down either as you have position

Hand 3 - a crazy raising to that level may warrant a call, less so with a tighter player

I'll likely be having a cash game monthly through the winter and I will continue to send you the invite. Not enough interest in the last game , but summers are tough. I am likely to try 25 c 50 c more as it seems to generate more interest
 
GoStumpy said:
Went tonight with $500 at the 1/2, sat down with $250, tons of garbage hands... Let me preface this with my biggest error of the night was not moving seats. I sat down and a younger guy that I know is GOOD sat to my left. That should have been my redflag to move ASAP. Why the hell I didn't is mostly because I didn't even think of it... was concentrating on playing not table selecting! OOPS.

Also, it was a fresh table so all stack sizes were fairly even, no big stacks, and none of my hands involved a short stack.

Three hands stick out to me:

Hand1: About an hour in I got Aces, and raise to $10, 4 callers. Flop comes something like 367 with two clubs.. I lead out for ~$30, and first guy goes over the top to like $150 or $175... basically took a stack of $25's and threw it in.

I realize he's quite likely betting a flush draw, maybe a straight draw too... MAYBE he hit a set, that seems possible with the overbet to confuse me...

I ended up folding, he mentioned that any club or 4 helped him, so he had the gutshot with the FD. I did not have the ace of clubs... too tight of a laydown?

Hand2: I get AK on the button, three or four limpers, I raise button to $15. Guy in SB on my left, a really good player, repops to $60. I think and fold like a flipping idiot, I think I should have called the $45 and seen a flop, if I bink a A or K, jam it, if not, fold.

Hand3: QJ suited in late position, I raise to $10, guy to my left calls, and crazy guy raises to $50. Guy to my left will definitely call... was I incorrect to fold here? A bunch of action happened later in the hand as I expected it would, but as it turns out I would have hit a Q and won with my J kicker over guy to my left that had Q6.


Overall down ~$300 for the night... ugh.
Click to expand...

If you didn't think of switching tables or seats, at least you know for future sessions now to focus on your seating first.

Hand 1 I think you were super nitty, made worse by the fact that you had a good read on villain's holdings. Your bet sizing may be a bit smallish as well.

Hand 2 I think you clearly misplayed, maybe because of intimidation over a villain you know to be a good player acting right behind you? Here you note what you should've done, which tells us that after some consideration, you knew what to do but you just didn't execute in the moment.

Hand 3 some of the same occurrences from hand 2 can be seen here. Your pfb is a bit small given the action you'd been getting with your raises to that point. You found yourself considering the villain to your left's move before your own. This cost you a shot at a big pot at least against a crazy LAG. At least you found out that this good player is capable of calling reraises light. That should loosen you up to just play your game in his presence, like anyone else.

GL with the next session (y) :thumbsup:
 
I thought of buying in lighter today, if my bankroll is only a few buyins, why am I buying in deeper than 100bb? That makes no sense unless i have a clear advantage over my opponents, which clearly I don't.

If I buyin for $ 200 instead of 250-300(table max) then like was said my decisions for stacks become easier.

Plus it'll give my smaller bankroll more buyins, I have $350 left in my poker roll which I can easily top up to 400 to give me two buyins next time I play, which likely won't be for another couple weeks... And will definitely be a Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night. No more Tuesday's, lol
 
Some really good hands to evaluate, I'll give you my thoughts on the hands and how I would think through them.

Hand 1: I think your approximation of his range is fairly good. This raise can be three things, value, semi bluff or a pure bluff. By observing how players play other hands you can narrow their range a little more. For instance if you have noticed he plays his draws passively it leans his flop raising range heavily to the value side. The other big factor I would consider is my table image. Does villain view you as a calling station, have you been folding to pressure a lot in other spots etc.

I don't think you are ever crushing villains range in this spot, unless villain is super aggressive, so folding isn't terrible in a spot like this.

Hand 2: I think you clearly misplayed your hand here. It's fairly common for the BTN to isolate and put pressure on the limpers. It is more likely that SB is 3b with a wider range in this spot and he expects you to fold more often. AK is really strong and often dominates his 3b range, it also blocks some combos of AA and KK.

In making your decision for this hand, profile villain first is he TAG LAG and passive. Second how does villain perceive you. Stack sizes are important as well assuming you are less than 200bb deep I would 4b jam here. When you are more comfortable playing post flop I think it is more profitable to call and see a flop if you are 150bb + eff

Hand 3: You can definitely argue for a call here although I would suspect at the moment that folding is probably better for you. QJs is a great hand to play 3 handed when you are comfortable playing post flop, but for the time being I would try and avoid playing such hands in large 3b pots because any mistakes you make will cost you a lot more.
 
GoStumpy said:
Hand1: About an hour in I got Aces, and raise to $10, 4 callers. Flop comes something like 367 with two clubs.. I lead out for ~$30, and first guy goes over the top to like $150 or $175... basically took a stack of $25's and threw it in.

I realize he's quite likely betting a flush draw, maybe a straight draw too... MAYBE he hit a set, that seems possible with the overbet to confuse me...

I ended up folding, he mentioned that any club or 4 helped him, so he had the gutshot with the FD. I did not have the ace of clubs... too tight of a laydown?
Click to expand...

Given only this information, I don't think this fold is a bad play. With 4 callers going into this flop, it's can be a judgment-y kind of spot, and my judgment is leaning toward a fold too. You're only way ahead against a few hands (mainly overpairs), modestly ahead against decent draws, and nearly dead when you're beat. The presence of many players "protects" the pot and makes it more likely than usual that a big raise is what it represents.

However, it's important to think about position here, as well as the tendencies of your opponents. Absent that information, it would be hard for me to stack off with AA here too, especially on a short roll.

Also, if $10 raises are getting 4 callers, you may want to ramp up your preflop raise size if you want to thin the field. Pay attention to this kind of stuff and adjust as necessary. Live preflop raise sizes can be very different from the typical stuff you see online.

GoStumpy said:
Hand2: I get AK on the button, three or four limpers, I raise button to $15. Guy in SB on my left, a really good player, repops to $60. I think and fold like a flipping idiot, I think I should have called the $45 and seen a flop, if I bink a A or K, jam it, if not, fold.
Click to expand...

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't hate this fold, but it kinda depends on what "good player" means. If it means what I think it means coming from you—a guy who plays a very standard, TAG type of approach—I like the fold. TAGs often turn up with big pairs here, and $45 more with only ~$200 behind is a bit steep to pay to draw to an A or K that probably won't get welcome action if SB does have a big pair. There are way better spots in hold'em*.

If by "good player," however, you mean someone who has been putting people in tough spots, laying clever traps, and making well-considered plays, I think a fold is not great. As noted in other posts, smart players will sometimes re-pop your button raises because they know you'll be raising lighter than usual, often enough that stealing your $15 makes it profitable to raise wider than usual. With $235-ish behind, you know what the best play is there, right?

GoStumpy said:
Hand3: QJ suited in late position, I raise to $10, guy to my left calls, and crazy guy raises to $50. Guy to my left will definitely call... was I incorrect to fold here? A bunch of action happened later in the hand as I expected it would, but as it turns out I would have hit a Q and won with my J kicker over guy to my left that had Q6.
Click to expand...

This isn't a terrible fold. Don't concern yourself with the fact that you would have hit a queen and won. Concern yourself with the fact that, if you'd called the $50 raise, you'd be in a $100 or $150 pot with ~$200 left, holding a hand that desperately needs to improve and will often be second-best even if it improves.

As to the opening play, a bigger raise might have been okay, but $10 is really not super-small for $1/$2, and is not terrible in late position with no limpers.


* Watch for these spots, and don't be afraid to strike when you see them. Particularly in live NLHE, you're going to be at the table with the same spread of opponents for a long time, and a lot of them will be pretty unsophisticated players playing predictable styles. Watch them do what they do. Learn them all well. Chit-chat with them to gain information, if necessary. If any of them have meaningful tells, figure them out and figure out what they mean.

Also note that playing a predictable TAG style with reasonably deep stacks is a big handicap. If you wear a big TAG sign around your neck, you'll tend to get crushed by the tougher players in big pots. Poker is a game of information more than it is a game of patience; it does you no good to wait around for AQ+ if it may as well be face-up when you finally play a hand, and that's not even mentioning predictable post-flop play.

Finally, the scared-money concept is important. If you find yourself nervous about making a $200 bet just because it's two hundred whole dollars, you may as well rack up and find a smaller game. You're defeating yourself before your opponents even have a chance to defeat you.
 
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GoStumpy said:
2p2 Concept of the Month: Scared Money
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/170/live-low-stakes-nl/concept-month-scared-money-797557/
Click to expand...

This is a great post. This is how your should be thinking about your opponents—not just scared money people, but everyone.

There's another post on 2+2 about player archetypes that is a great read. If I'm not mistaken, it's the origin of the phrase "Old Man Coffee." It is not only very informative, but also entertaining.

You're welcome in advance: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/live-casino-poker/rumnchesss-guide-live-poker-647725.
 
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There is already some very good advice and hand analysis posted by others above, in particular by @Adam Crowley and @Jimulacrum.

Learn the odds of different combinations of your opponents probable range versus your hand. In general, there are 6 ways to make a specific pair AA, QQ, etc. and 16 ways to make a non-pair (like AK, or AQ).

For your hand #2, when you hold AK, with your 1 ace out, and 1 King out, there are only 3 remaining combos of AA, 3 combos of KK, and 6 combos each of QQ, JJ, TT, 99, etc.. There are also 9 combos of AK left, 12 combos of AQ, 12 combos of AJ. plus, your opponent could be holding more marginal hands than that, AT, A9, KQ, KJ, or worse? (based on your read of how many hands he played, reraised, etc..) So when you hold AK, preflop you're around 45% versus any pair, but are around a 62-70% favorite vs. most other hands. Even vs. KK, AK still has 30% equity pre-flop. Only versus AA are you really dominated. Versus your opponent's $60 raise, I think this hand is an all-in preflop with $230 or less behind (maybe even up to $300 or so), unless your opponent is really really tight. Yes, there's a small chance you might run up against AA, and you might get called by 99 and not hit an A or K, but you might also get AQ, KQ, AJ or worse to call your all-in, and you also might get really small pairs to fold.

About 10 years ago, I was not too comfortable playing 1/2 casino-type stakes, to start out, but I learned a lot from some friends and other players in a particular home game I played in, and started being more comfortable (and also having the bankroll) to play higher stakes. The best advice I would give you is to learn from other players, which you are clearly open to doing by posting and asking questions here.
 
Remembering all aspects of the hands are important and I think I should take some notes during the session.

To be honest after reading responses to my third QJ hand I think I limped preflop which made me lean towards folding moreso due to less invested.


Oh and THANK YOU guys for the extremely valuable advice in this thread :)
 

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