Villain on villain, AQo in middle possition (1 Viewer)

[DrStrange]

We are playing $1/$1, $100 max buy-in, ten handed. It is the Saturday after Thanksgiving and everyone is ready to play {and eat all the food}. There is just over $2,000 on the table about two hours into the game. Volatile, aggressive, friendly ---> a good time is being had. However, the winners are having a better time, just saying . . . .

The cast of Characters:

Few details at first, more as we focus in. Here are the two big stacks at the table.

The Ultimate Calling Station is UTG+1 playing $600. He is the big winner so far and it is affecting his game. This villain plays better and more aggressively when he is ahead. He evolves from an ultra loose calling station to a ultra loose semi aggressive player. He does have air in his betting range now. He will be the opening raiser.

Hero {who is not DrStrange} is playing $550. This is the cougar. Tricky, trappy, loose calling station. He too is a big winner, as we can see by the fact these two players have over half the chips in play.

The hand:

UTG folds. The Ultimate calling station raises to $6. One intervening call brings us to Hero who finds himself holding . Does he fold, flat the raise or three-bet? If he does three bet, the observant players will range him with KK+. There is little chance the UCS folds to a three-bet.

If Hero flats, expect the hand to garner lots of callers. If Hero three bets, expect it to be heads up or three way most of the time.

 

[Kain8]

Pump it up to $15 and get heads up with the big stack and let's dance.

 

[DrStrange]

How are you ranging UTG+1's hand that makes you want to isolate it with AQo? Keep in mind that UTG is sticky - maybe less passive sticky and more semi aggressive sticky, but he hates to fold.

 

[Kain8]

You described UCS as ultra loose & semi aggressive. AQo is easily worth a 3-bet and a float in position if we don't have flop a good pair or draw.

 

[DrStrange]

So, what range would you assign to the UTG+1 opening raise? For example a top ten percent range might look something like this: AJo+, TT+, KQo, plus a few other suited hands. A top five percent range might be AQ+, TT+, AJs.

On a more normal night for The UCS, his passive calling station range would be QQ+ and AKs {maybe} - - - but tonight isn't normal for The Ultimate Calling Station.

 

[upNdown]

So, what range would you assign to the UTG opening raise? For example a top ten percent range might look something like this: AJo+, TT+, KQo, plus a few other suited hands. A top five percent range might be AQ+, TT+, AJs.

On a more normal night for UTG, his passive calling station range would be QQ+ and AKs {maybe} - - - but tonight isn't normal for The Ultimate Calling Station.

From the way you described him and his night, I'm guessing his range for that raise is just slightly better than any two cards.
Seems like the right time for a reraise to me.

 

[DrStrange]

I see my villain description wasn't very accurate. UTG+1 AKA The Ultimate Calling Station is not in LAGtard mode. While he easily could limp with any two cards, he isn't raising nearly that often. He is not his normal passive self either. Think of his raising range as a TAG's raising range plus a sliver of speculative hands and his limping range as almost any two cards.

 

[Kain8]

To open UTG, he's probably got a top 10 - 15% hand but we're in position with a very good holding ourselves. If we get 4-bet preflop by UCS then it's a pretty easy fold. But we need to make hay while the sun shines, so $15 is a good reraise now.

 

[krafticus]

In my case, I will raise to $20, but should fold, since I win only 1 out of every 22 times playing this hand.

 

[BGinGA]

Raise to $13, because I don't want to play this hand in an inflated pot with a bunch of passive callers when I'm not on the button. I'm okay with having position on UTG either heads-up or three-way. Only an A or K on the flop may slow me down, but I'm liking it the other 70% of the time, especially without non-Q broadway cards.

 

[DrStrange]

*** on to the flop ***

Hero calls $6, Button calls as does the Big blind. Five way action, $31 in the pot.

Button is Crazy Jr, playing $80. A wild, unrepentant LAGtard. As is always the case, he is on a roller-coaster this evening - - lots of ups and downs but in the end when the ride is over you are sitting on the ground.

The big blind is playing $175. She is very loose, sticky - a calling station with a betting tell. She bets far bigger and emphatically with powerful hands post flop otherwise she mostly calls.

The other caller is folding before we get back to Hero.

Flop is: Hero holds

BB checks. The Ultimate Calling Station bets $15. One fold. Action on Hero, fold, call or raise?

DrStrange

PS I found the advice to 3-bet to be interesting. "One pair/ top pair" types of starting hand make me nervous playing 500+ bb deep. Of course, playing that type of hand multi-way 500+ deep also makes me nervous.

 

[Kain8]

Well, button can comfortably shove his remaining stack if we call UCS' flop bet, so that's what this boils down to. And with the button being a LAG, this is a pretty good flop for him to do just that. Are we prepared to call $80 to draw to the straight? If not, you've only got $6 invested and can happily fold. If you're willing to gamble it up, then call the $15 and see if button jams. You then have position against the other two players in the hand who have to make the call first.

 

[Adam Crowley]

Pre flop - We have a strong hand that is ahead of UTG opening range. Folding is out

3b is a consideration and it will close out a lot more of the action. It gives us a chance to win the pot then and there but it is unlikely. 3b does isolate us against a stronger range vs UTG and reduces our chances of dominating UTG.

Calling makes it more desirable for players to play behind us, but leaves all of UTG range in. Calling gives us a better chance to dominate our opponent. Calling does make our hand harder to play, but it also makes it harder for our opponent/s

I would call pre but both options are good.

Flop - I see no point in raising, we have a lot of equity in the pot and we are getting a good price to call. This is a particularly bad flop for the BTN to shove with a small piece of the board after two people have called. I think folding would be too weak in this spot given that we block some KQ combinations and BTN can have a really wide range here alot that doesn't connect with the board.

 

[BGinGA]

Flop is:

So much for no non-Q broadway cards.

Still, with an open-ender with a draw to the nuts, I'm calling the $15 flop bet and probably calling a button shove from CrazyJr, unless the BB wakes up check-raising a monster (unlikely, given her history). UCS could be c-betting with almost anything, but I don't like raising here with just the straight draw.

 

[mooremo]

One intervening call brings us to Hero who finds himself holding

Doesn't this make 5 people in the hand (UTG, intervening call, hero, button, bb)?
Is the intervening call an important person in this hand?

 

[mummel]

Call the $15. I would have also called the $6.

 

[BGinGA]

UTG folds. The Ultimate calling station raises to $6. One intervening call brings us to Hero who finds himself holding .

Hero calls $6, Button calls as does the Big blind. Four way action, $25 in the pot.

BB checks. The Ultimate Calling Station bets $15. Action on Hero

I'm guessing that either there was no intervening caller pre-flop, or that caller folded to the UCS $15 flop bet.

Doesn't this make 5 people in the hand (UTG, intervening call, hero, button, bb)?

UTG folded pre-flop (UCS was the pre-flop raiser), and it appears that if there was an intervening caller pre-flop, they are no longer in the hand.

UTG folds. The Ultimate calling station raises to $6.

How are you ranging UTG hand that makes you want to isolate it with AQo?

what range would you assign to the UTG opening raise?

On a more normal night for UTG, his passive calling station range would be QQ+ and AKs

UTG is not in LAGtard mode.

We have a strong hand that is ahead of UTG opening range.

I think it's safe to say that the pre-flop raiser (UCS) was NOT in the UTG position..... so many of the remarks made regarding his pre-flop raise are not necessarily valid.

 

[mooremo]

I'm guessing that either there was no intervening caller pre-flop, or that caller folded to the UCS $15 flop bet.


UTG folded pre-flop (UCS was the pre-flop raiser), and it appears that if there was an intervening caller pre-flop, they are no longer in the hand.







I think it's safe to say that the pre-flop raiser (UCS) was NOT in the UTG position..... so many of the remarks made regarding his pre-flop raise are not necessarily valid.

yes sir, UCS is UTG+1 then intervening call, so 5 to the flop. You are probably right in that that person didn't have much impact on the hand.

 

[DrStrange]

Yes, I missed the preflop caller who folds before Hero acts. It was five way action with $31 in the pot.

UCS is way too close to UTG and I seem to get them confused. The Ultimate Calling Station was UTG+1

Thanks - I'll got clean things up.

 

[DrStrange]

*** and now the turn ***

Hero calls $15. The other villains fold. It is heads up, $61 in the pot. $524 effective stacks.

Turn is: < > Hero holds

The Ultimate Calling Station bets $50.

Action on Hero, call or raise or even fold? If raising, how much?

 

[Kain8]

Well folding is out of the question since we made the straight. Honestly a raise here polarizes our hand so I would elect to call and pretty much call any river, unless we improve to Broadway. The UCS will no doubt lead the river if we just cold call, and he'll probably follow that up with a big river bet that we can snap off.

 

[mummel]

Call.

 

[BGinGA]

Raise to $160, making it $110 for villain to call to win $271.. We are only losing to KQ, and have three outs to chop win even if that's the case. Calling any villain turn shove now, and plan to shove (or call with) our remaining $369 ($381 pot) on almost all river cards. Not worried that he's folding to a raise here, this is the Ultimate Calling Station we're up against.

I don't see how stacks are going to get in the middle if we just call. And we want stacks in the middle.

I'm only worried if a Jack hits the river, and maybe a Ten. JJ and JT definitely in villain's range.

 

[kirchhausen]

If a K hits we are scooping, not chopping, Other than that I agree with BGinGA.

 

[BGinGA]

If a K hits we are scooping, not chopping, Other than that I agree with BGinGA.

Good catch. Corrected.

 

[Adam Crowley]

I prefer to call the turn.

Even though we are against calling stations I think a raise turns our hand face up, which makes it difficult for our opponent to make a mistake.

I prefer the advantage of disguising our hand a little more over the protection of raising. The other downside of raising is the only hand that we get value from is KhJh, this depends on how much of a calling station villain is though.

 

[DrStrange]

Villain would call a modest raise with a lot of hands.

 

[Ben]

Preflop I'd 3-bet probably 1/3 of the time - mostly dependent on gameflow (how active have I been in the last 1-2 orbits?)

Call flop - no other option really. We cannot fold for $15 here.

Raise turn to $175. If we were up against a full-blown LAGtard I might find a call, but anybody else is going to shut down on the river with worse approximately 100% of the time. We need to get value/deny equity now against the slew of sets/2pair/draws that we could be facing. I'd go so far as to say that not raising is a pretty big mistake. If called and checked to on a blank river, I'm shoving (he is the UCS after all. )

 

[DrStrange]

*** now it gets ugly or beautiful depending on how things work out ***

Hero min-raises $50. That is not how I would have sized the bet but that doesn't matter.

Villain calls the raise with a speech that went something like this. " Be careful Cougar, be real careful unless you have KQ."

The river will be heads up. $261 in the pot, $424 effective stacks.

River is: < > Hero holds

The Ultimate Calling Station bets all in almost instantly. Hero goes into the tank. Villain starts telling Hero that Villain holds KQ and the Hero ought to fold. Villain has a history of sometimes telling the truth in situations like this. Not always, but often enough that someone might think the statement could be useful.

Action on Hero, call or fold?

Please keep in mind that a) Hero is playing for his stack and b) villain is playing for almost all of his stack.

 

[mummel]

Call. Villian holds the 7.