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What a joke! (3 Viewers)

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This is fast approaching the silliest* thread on PCF.

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But let’s keep this train a rolling !
 
upNdown said:
I love love love when somebody dibs the whole lot out from under the “if split” vultures. Especially if some of them say “dips if split pending price.”
Listen. This guy listed a single lot, made up of a bunch of racks. He doesn’t want to do math, he doesn’t want to ship to 5 different people, and he doesn’t want the headaches! Buy the lot or don’t!
Click to expand...
Feels good to do it, you get to be baller for a second!
 
upNdown said:
I love love love when somebody dibs the whole lot out from under the “if split” vultures. Especially if some of them say “dips if split pending price.”
Listen. This guy listed a single lot, made up of a bunch of racks. He doesn’t want to do math, he doesn’t want to ship to 5 different people, and he doesn’t want the headaches! Buy the lot or don’t!
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing but for the record I'm pretty certain it ended up being split off-forum in as many ways (2) as the larger split dibs on the thread.
 
Eriks said:
If the vast majority of sales are conducted via ”dibs” wouldn’t it be more appropriate if sellers who wanted to use some other system explicitly said so in their threads?
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This isn’t really directed at you Eriks.

I haven’t read the whole thread but it seems like a lot of it is nitpicking. For one thing, it’s a pretty small percentage of the membership who use the classifieds with a whole lot of regularity. I’m picturing others places I’m a member but don’t visit a whole lot... if there are specific terms and expectations like what’s being talked about here on selling I wouldn’t know about them.

I get all of the “honor” and “community” stuff but when it comes to putting a price on something and ultimately being offered more EVERYONE has a price.

Scenario: you offer a lot of casino singles for $50. Joe Blow who has 12 posts and who’s name you’ve never seen claims dibs. Dave, Paulo and Larry blow up your phone letting you know you have some crazy rare chip in there that singles collectors would pay $20,000 for. You aren’t selling to Newb Joe because you’re an honorable person.

Yes, it’s a silly example. Doesn’t mean it isn’t accurate.

Some members feel differently than others about how things should/shouldn’t, can/can’t be sold. It doesn’t appear to me that it’s a very widespread issue... threads like this likely do more to hurt the community than a few sales that go down in ways you don’t agree with.

Things aren’t a big deal unless you choose to make them one. My two cents.
 
Eloe2000 said:
I appreciate your thoughts. I understand this thread, which I did not start, was directed at the seller. I was admittedly the one who started rocking the boat initially on this situation and the one the day prior via posting in those sale threads after the transactions were completed or cancelled and then by posting a link to and discussing those sales in a pre-existing thread on the issue of dibs. As I have said in all of these threads, my frustrations and disappointment is targeted primarily at the subversive buyer behavior more so than the seller behavior. However the animosity in this threads by others seem to really just target the seller behavior. I would suspect that is in no small part because the buyers are anonymous. And I think buyer behavior is largely getting a free pass in this discussion.

My intention when rocking the boat was to discuss the activities in general and understand people’s perspectives, possibly inform other’s perspectives, and even possibly address issues with change. My intention was not to target or bully specific individuals which is why I have not named them and only addressed them specifically when they have popped into these threads to discuss specifics.

I certainly do not like some of the nastiness in this thread but I do feel it is important the community discuss how transactions are conducted because the core issue here is that people are operating under different expectations which is causing conflict. So we need to be working on common expectations. While starting threads like this may seem like bullying, and as others have pointed out, the site’s feedback feature is only intended for parties involved in completed transactions. People have specifically been directed by the mods to start threads like this specifically to address behavior and activities of people when the feedback feature is not applicable. So while I personally would not start a thread like this, my understanding is that people have been directed to start threads to discuss actions and behaviors of specific people (I could be wrong and I would welcome correction if so).
Click to expand...
Now we're getting somewhere... Actual discussion on the sales thread problem. As for the "subversive buyer" as I see it, its been stated that the chips were sold in bulk to one buyer on the priority of 1 sale. AT THE ASKING PRICE and not for more to subvert other buyers. I believe that was a fair seller call. there's not automatic assumptions that "dibs" are there. They weren't mentioned and as a fairly new member here I would never assume because someone says "Dibs" I am now required to sell you my chips. As for who the "buyer" was, who cares? Its none of anyone's business unless they, like you say, subverted the process by seeing all the dibs and offering more money to entice the seller which as stated didn't happen.
 
Eriks said:
If the vast majority of sales are conducted via ”dibs” wouldn’t it be more appropriate if sellers who wanted to use some other system explicitly said so in their threads?
Click to expand...
or....... should they explicitly say "dibs" sale so newbies and occasional who want to buy something don't have to sift through thread after thread to figure it out. Both points are as valid.
 
jpietrella said:
Fair. But let's not pretend like the terms that folks are assuming apply are just pulled out of thin air or are based solely on how they feel. They're assuming they apply because they typically apply in 95% of sales, which I think is quite a fair assumption.

Seller is obviously under no obligation to take that into account, but to just completely ignore it just feels dick-ish.
Click to expand...
Assume-3501.jpg
 
RivieraDanny said:
or....... should they explicitly say "dibs" sale so newbies and occasional who want to buy something don't have to sift through thread after thread to figure it out. Both points are as valid.
Click to expand...
It isn’t that hard to figure out. But I’m all for clarity and unambiguity. I will state terms clearly in my future sale threads.
 
Eriks said:
It isn’t that hard to figure out. But I’m all for clarity and unambiguity. I will state terms clearly in my future sale threads.
Click to expand...
I will also! It clears up many things. We all learned from this 18 page thread in the end it wasn't so "Pointless". Maybe the veterans are the ones to adapt a bit. I've seen so many posts about the influx of 100's of new users and how THEY should adapt. well some of THEY do...Some won't and yes some are just douche, oh well.
 
Ill just leave this here as a reference to the "mods" having to address any issues in sales threads.. As for "Dibs" Its not publicly posted and pinned by @Tommy and not an official forum procedure so it doesn't exist unless the seller explicitly states it. I wouldn't want to be the guy who has to referee every thread. Its Tommy's forum, he makes it happen and if he wanted to address this issue he would. If you want the "rule" Lobby him for it. As for pricing I have to agree with him... Like it, buy it or not. I believe this post as many went through the 5 stages and my 2 c has been spent! IN CASH not CHIPS! that makes it worse
selling.JPG
 
RivieraDanny said:
I will also! It clears up many things. We all learned from this 18 page thread in the end it wasn't so "Pointless". Maybe the veterans are the ones to adapt a bit. I've seen so many posts about the influx of 100's of new users and how THEY should adapt. well some of THEY do...Some won't and yes some are just douche, oh well.
Click to expand...
If adapting means watering down my integrity......NO THANKS! But you do what you got to do. :tup: And if I have to start another STUPID THREAD like this to weed out some of the BULLSHIT, I will. I don’t need ANYTHING from anyone that has no standards.
 
Lil Tuna said:
If adapting means watering down my integrity......NO THANKS! But you do what you got to do. :tup: And if I have to start another STUPID THREAD like this to weed out some of the BULLSHIT, I will. I don’t need ANYTHING from anyone that has no standards.
Click to expand...
I never said lower standards or water integrity, I addressed that with the Some are douche part. ya just have to put them on the no Christmas card list. Ones integrity can be lowered easily but making it rise is much harder work.
 
FWIW, my complaint about ole Tootsie Roll’s sale was never really dibs related, not once he clarified that he was going to prioritize multi-lot buyers over first come first serve. I even partnered up with a couple of folks to increase the number of lots we were willing to buy to try and I meet his terms.

But I thought it was pretty scummy to post for a fair price and then say he was going to pull chips and auction them after apparently multiple people had agreed to buy at his stated price. He obviously didn’t end up doing that, though it isn’t clear he didn’t negotiate higher prices through PM.

The only reaction I planned to have was to post negative feedback about the auction switcheroo, which to me suggests the guy isn’t trustworthy. I was informed site policies don’t allow it. Like lots of others, I didn’t start busting on Tootsie until he started showing his ass in this thread.
 
RivieraDanny said:
I never said lower standards or water integrity, I addressed that with the Some are douche part. ya just have to put them on the no Christmas card list. Ones integrity can be lowered easily but making it rise is much harder work.
Click to expand...
See original post, exactly what I did. I just decided to warn the decent members here of my actions. :tup:
 
RivieraDanny said:
Now we're getting somewhere... Actual discussion on the sales thread problem. As for the "subversive buyer" as I see it, its been stated that the chips were sold in bulk to one buyer on the priority of 1 sale. AT THE ASKING PRICE and not for more to subvert other buyers. I believe that was a fair seller call. there's not automatic assumptions that "dibs" are there. They weren't mentioned and as a fairly new member here I would never assume because someone says "Dibs" I am now required to sell you my chips. As for who the "buyer" was, who cares? Its none of anyone's business unless they, like you say, subverted the process by seeing all the dibs and offering more money to entice the seller which as stated didn't happen.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. A lot of this has been hashed out and I don’t what to rehashing everything but I know you want to have a good meaningful discussion about it. Understand that two situations happened on back to back days and the sentiments here were compounded. Both situations are being referenced here in this thread.

The situation on the first day I was involved in, and myself and another member were the first to respond publicly and by PM with clear explicit confirmation of buying. Someone else came along after that and only PMed the seller offering more money. The seller publicly declared the items sold to PMer. We know all of this because the PMer was honest and eventually came out to say that he really wanted to chips, saw our responses, and PMed the seller with a higher offer. Part of the buyer’s defense was that he offered to buy both racks along with paying more. The initial two public buyers would have been fine buying both racks if that was mentioned as a preference by the seller, which it was not. We had even amended our public posts with an indication we would take both racks if that was preferred. It’s unclear timing of those vs the PMer.

In the second situation, which you are referencing, the seller posted items for sale with specific prices and various members quickly stated their agreement to buy at the stated prices. Only AFTER they had stated their agreement to purchase per the original terms did the seller say they preferred to sell as larger lots. At that point most members here would probably find it fair to reach out to the first responders and offer them the opportunity to take larger lots. The seller did NOT do that. They fielded more PMs and by my reading had offers for the chips 50% higher than his stated price and he didn’t want to pass that up (quote below). At that point he cancelled the thread ignoring everyone else’s intentions to buy at that point in order to create an auction which as he himself has said here: something to the effect of “I’m only in it for the money”. Now regarding value, please also understand this member had previously posted a thread to get the valuation of these exact chips and got great advice (link below). As someone who has a bit of a sense of what is going on here, there are prices that things generally sell for here and then there are limitless higher prices that people with a lot of cash don’t mind paying to pry whatever chips they want out of people’s hands. So when someone is willing to pay 50% more than others they are doing so fully knowing it is above common fair market value. So the claim that the chips were undervalued was not true (other than the Aztars). If you want to sell to those people at maximum value then people should use auctions.

Frankly, my frustration was largely fueled not by my own strike out but because another good standing member got the short end of the stock on both of these situations on back to back days and I felt shitty for them. I don’t want good community based people to get turned off of PCF like that.

I am going to leave it at that probably since all of my other thoughts are posted elsewhere in this thread, but I thought the added context may may provide some additional basis for my perspective. Let’s take it to the PMs after this if you really want to chat further.

Toots: “Sorry but some of these chips were undervalued, and others have PM'd me and pointed it out. I think its fair for me to sell this at a fair market value. I can just hold on to these as well, either way its not going to affect my life. If someone is going to offer me 50% more for the chips im not going to give that up,”


From the prior day:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...rd-room-hot-stamped-non-denoms-2-racks.68840/

The second situation primarily the topic of this thread:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...o-de-mexico-casino-ithmus.68869/#post-1391952

Valuation thread for the second situation:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...-sell-this-set-a-whole-for.61695/post-1240033
 
Last edited:
BamaT8ter said:
FWIW, my complaint about ole Tootsie Roll’s sale was never really dibs related, not once he clarified that he was going to prioritize multi-lot buyers over first come first serve. I even partnered up with a couple of folks to increase the number of lots we were willing to buy to try and I meet his terms.

But I thought it was pretty scummy to post for a fair price and then say he was going to pull chips and auction them after apparently multiple people had agreed to buy at his stated price. He obviously didn’t end up doing that, though it isn’t clear he didn’t negotiate higher prices through PM.

The only reaction I planned to have was to post negative feedback about the auction switcheroo, which to me suggests the guy isn’t trustworthy. I was informed site policies don’t allow it. Like lots of others, I didn’t start busting on Tootsie until he started showing his ass in this thread.
Click to expand...
I agree about the dibs part, but he clearly stated that he did NOT negotiate a higher price via PM. I take him at his word. I also knew what was going to happen when he said they would go to auction! But there I also believe profit wasn't @tootsmagoots motivation. Maybe I'm naïve but as a newbie I've sent 1000's of dollars to people I don't know and never been screwed by anyone here, I've also received hundreds of dollars with "low" counts and always sent them their purchases. as for the volcano eruption that ensued, well..... that's what happens here in my experience, and I've been just as guilty of it and not so proud! text is subjective and one statement can be interpreted many ways but when it goes to vile and vulgar in public all bets fall off the table. We can ALL be better!
 
Eloe2000 said:
Thanks for the response. A lot of this has been hashed out and I don’t what to rehashing everything but I know you want to have a good meaningful discussion about it. Understand that two situations happens on back to back days and the sentiments here were compounded. References to both situations are being referenced here.

The situation on the first day I was involved in, and myself and another member were the first to respond publicly and by PM with clear explicitly confirmation of buying. Someone else came along after that and only PMed the seller offering more money. The seller seller declared the items sold to PMer. We know all of this because the PMer was honest and eventually came out to say that he really wanted to chips, saw our responses, and PMed the seller with a higher offer. Part of the buyer’s defense was that he offered to buy both racks along with paying more. The initial two public buyers would have been fine buying both racks if that was mentioned as a preference which it was not. We had even amended our public agreements to buy with an indication we would take both racks. It’s unclear timing of those vs the PMer.

In the second situation, which you are referencing, the seller posted items for sale with specific prices and various members lastly stated their agreement to buy at those prices. Only AFTER they had stated their agreement to purchase per their original terms did the seller say they preferred to sell as larger lots. At that point most members here would probably find it fair to reach out to the first responders and offer them the opportunity to take larger lots. The seller did NOT do that. They fielded more PMs and by my reading had offers for the chips 50% higher than his stated price and he didn’t want to pass that up “quote below”. At that point he cancelled the thread ignoring everyone else’s intentions to buy at that point in order to create an auction which as he himself has said here: something to the effect of “I’m only in it for the money”. Now regarding value, please also understand this member had previously posted a thread to get the valuation of these exact chips and got great advice (link below). As some who has a bit of a sense of what is going on here, there are prices that things generally sell for here and then there are limitless higher prices that people with a lot of cash don’t mind paying to pry whatever chips they want out of peoples hands. So when someone is willing to pay 50% more than others they are doing so fully knowing it is above common fair market value. If you want to sell to those people at maximum value then people should use auctions

Frankly, my frustration was largely fueled not by my own strike out but because another good standing member got the short end of the stock on both of these situations on back to back days and I felt shitty for them. I don’t want good community based people to get turned off of PCF like that.

I am going to leave it at that probably since all of my other thoughts are posted elsewhere in this thread, but I thought the added context may may provide some additional basis for my perspective.

Toots: “Sorry but some of these chips were undervalued, and others have PM'd me and pointed it out. I think its fair for me to sell this at a fair market value. I can just hold on to these as well, either way its not going to affect my life. If someone is going to offer me 50% more for the chips im not going to give that up,”


From the prior day:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...rd-room-hot-stamped-non-denoms-2-racks.68840/

The second situation primarily the topic of this thread:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...o-de-mexico-casino-ithmus.68869/#post-1391952

Valuation thread for the second situation:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...-sell-this-set-a-whole-for.61695/post-1240033
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ill have to log out to view those as I'm banished from classifieds for a few more days for pulling an auction. (not discussing just referencing)
 
Ronoh said:
...... threads like this CAN IF NOT RESOLVED likely do more to hurt the community than a few sales that go down in ways you don’t agree with.
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FYP. Agree 100

Ronoh said:
Things aren’t a big deal unless you choose to make them one. My two cents.
Click to expand...

As a first year member and life long chipper poker player I should share one of the best things that was said to me on a ruff morning here trying to please everyone on a Vinny split. @inca911 simply told me early one morning something in private that helped me forever. It was a super heated four way moment and he simply said...

“No worries my friend, It’s just poker chips”

Aka don’t sweat the small stuff. That was very helpful. I use that line slot in messages here. I might add I personally love and appreciate everyone here, esp those who PM or text me long before they list for sale. Feel free to all join the movement! I love poker chips. Lol
 
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