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What a joke! (2 Viewers)

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I have no problem with the "Dibs" Method AT ALL really. The problem I see with dibs and the ensuing shaming and bullying that occurs, typically from what I see is from "the usual suspects" (the worst of it anyway) comes in when some who live on PCF checking the classifieds every 5 minutes will always get an unfair advantage over those who cannot check every 5 minutes.

In the OSP the seller @tootsmagoots may have just wanted to sell his stuff not realizing the 100 messages and dibs would be a PITA for him and soon after said large orders would take precedence over splits. Yes maybe he should have said that in the OSP. I keep reading that he had a binding obligation to honor "dibs" that he didn't mention, or like many here, don't believe in. he also didn't mention splits at all or wont sell unless all chips accounted for which would suggest "dibs" are in play.

The easy answer is that if you want "dibs" just say in in the SP and problems solved. If it doesn't say "dibs" or splits there are none. Best example is the Canadian coffee cup that doesn't have to say "Contents Hot". His sale didn't say "dibs" or "Splits" so there are none. As far as profiting on chips, who cares? if you can afford a Rolls Royce you buy one, if you cant you buy a chevy but that leads into the discussion about making profit which is nobody's business and the everyone should have a chance at the chips yet I see a certain individual deep stacking pink chips, yellow chips etc. at any cost.... Where's the bitchin there??

This whole entitled bullshit subject is really just stupid. Sorry for the wall o letters but WTF guys? anyone's temper would flare the way these posts go. Both ways!
 
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Want "dibs" in your sale? SAY IT! Want the work of splits in a large sale? SAY IT! Problem solved. Sometimes its just simple.

No one was snaked, he sold at asking price according to the amended "terms". (large orders considered first). When he said he was going to move to auction I believe him when he says it wasn't about the profit but even if it was SO WHAT. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
 
RivieraDanny said:
I have no problem with the "Dibs" Method AT ALL really. The problem I see with dibs and the ensuing shaming and bullying that occurs, typically from what I see is from "the usual suspects" (the worst of it anyway) comes in when some who live on PCF checking the classifieds every 5 minutes will always get an unfair advantage over those who cannot check every 5 minutes.

In the OSP the seller @tootsmagoots may have just wanted to see his stuff not realizing the 100 messages and dibs would be a PITA for him and soon after said large orders would take precedence over splits. Yes maybe he should have said that in the OSP. I keep reading that he had a binding obligation to honor "dibs" that he didn't mention, or like many here, don't believe in. he also didn't mention splits at all or wont sell unless all chips accounted for which would suggest "dibs" are in play.

The easy answer is that if you want "dibs" just say in in the SP and problems solved. If it doesn't say "dibs" or splits there are none. Best example is the Canadian coffee cup that doesn't have to say "Contents Hot". His sale didn't say "dibs" or "Splits" so there are none. As far as profiting on chips, who cares? if you can afford a Rolls Royce you buy one, if you cant you buy a chevy but that leads into the discussion about making profit which is nobody's business and the everyone should have a chance at the chips yet I see a certain individual deep stacking pink chips, yellow chips etc. at any cost.... Where's the bitchin there??

This whole entitled bullshit subject is really just stupid. Sorry for the wall o letters but WTF guys? anyone's temper would flare the way these posts go. Both ways!
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I appreciate your thoughts. I understand this thread, which I did not start, was directed at the seller. I was admittedly the one who started rocking the boat initially on this situation and the one the day prior via posting in those sale threads after the transactions were completed or cancelled and then by posting a link to and discussing those sales in a pre-existing thread on the issue of dibs. As I have said in all of these threads, my frustrations and disappointment is targeted primarily at the subversive buyer behavior more so than the seller behavior. However the animosity in this threads by others seem to really just target the seller behavior. I would suspect that is in no small part because the buyers are anonymous. And I think buyer behavior is largely getting a free pass in this discussion.

My intention when rocking the boat was to discuss the activities in general and understand people’s perspectives, possibly inform other’s perspectives, and even possibly address issues with change. My intention was not to target or bully specific individuals which is why I have not named them and only addressed them specifically when they have popped into these threads to discuss specifics.

I certainly do not like some of the nastiness in this thread but I do feel it is important the community discuss how transactions are conducted because the core issue here is that people are operating under different expectations which is causing conflict. So we need to be working on common expectations. While starting threads like this may seem like bullying, and as others have pointed out, the site’s feedback feature is only intended for parties involved in completed transactions. People have specifically been directed by the mods to start threads like this specifically to address behavior and activities of people when the feedback feature is not applicable. So while I personally would not start a thread like this, my understanding is that people have been directed to start threads to discuss actions and behaviors of specific people (I could be wrong and I would welcome correction if so).
 
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RivieraDanny said:
Want "dibs" in your sale? SAY IT! Want the work of splits in a large sale? SAY IT! Problem solved. Sometimes its just simple.

No one was snaked, he sold at asking price according to the amended "terms". (large orders considered first). When he said he was going to move to auction I believe him when he says it wasn't about the profit but even if it was SO WHAT. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
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As you said, it’s simple. If you list a rack of chips for a price of $200 and I say I’ll take it. I intend to pay you $200 for your chips and I expect to get those chips, plain and simple. Like a virtual handshake as someone mentioned.
It’s how I personally do business. If I missed something for what ever reason, that’s on me as well. Trust me, if you ever do business with me, I’m not a member you’ll regret making any kind of transaction with.
My word in person or on a screen means something, it should mean something to all of us in this community. Just my opinion though.
 
Eloe2000 said:
I appreciate your thoughts. I understand this thread, which I did not start, was directed at the seller. I was admittedly the one who started rocking the boat initially on this situation and the one the day prior via posting in those sale threads after the transactions were completed or cancelled and then by posting a link to and discussing those sales in a pre-existing thread on the issue of dibs. As I have said in all of these threads, my frustrations and disappointment is targeted primarily at the subversive buyer behavior more so than the seller behavior. However the animosity in this threads by others seem to really just target the seller behavior. I would suspect that is in no small part because the buyers are anonymous. And I think buyer behavior is largely getting a free pass in this discussion.

My intention when rocking the boat was to discuss the activities in general and understand people’s perspectives, possibly inform other’s perspectives, and even possibly address issues with change. My intention was not to target or bully specific individuals which is why I have not named them and only addressed them specifically when they have popped into these threads to discuss specifics.

I certainly do not like some of the nastiness in this thread but I do feel it is important the community discuss how transactions are conducted because the core issue here is that people are operating under different expectations which is causing conflict. So we need to be working on common expectations. While starting threads like this may seem like bullying, and as others have pointed out, the site’s feedback feature is only intended for parties involved in completed transactions. People have specifically been directed by the mods to start threads like this specifically to address behavior and activities of people when the feedback feature is not applicable. So while I personally would not start a thread like this, my understanding is that people have been directed to start threads to discuss actions and behaviors of specific people (I could be wrong and I would welcome correction if so).
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Lil Tuna said:
As you said, it’s simple. If you list a rack of chips for a price of $200 and I say I’ll take it. I intend to pay you $200 for your chips and I expect to get those chips, plain and simple. Like a virtual handshake as someone mentioned.
It’s how I personally do business. If I missed something for what ever reason, that’s on me as well. Trust me, if you ever do business with me, I’m not a member you’ll regret making any kind of transaction with.
My word in person or on a screen means something, it should mean something to all of us in this community. Just my opinion though.
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People can speak to if they think this thread is needed or to actions there in.

But y’all are saints for repeatedly responding thoughtfully to folks who haven’t read your previous replies and won’t read your new ones.

When a new chipper from two months ago breaks it all down for us, diagnosing the issue, and stating how procedures and processes should work:
D090B9FE-99DB-48A2-8E37-3AD2313D4EBA.gif
 
I fail to see why some are confused about people being upset about the actions debated here. These sale posts constitute contracts, and even more binding than "verbal" contracts. Sellers says "I will sell XXX for $Y". Person comes and says "I will buy it (aka DIBS)". This is a contract. So when person C comes up and whispers "I'll pay you more to sell to me", that is very slimy behavior at the least. But for the seller to turn around and then sell to person C constitutes a breach of the contract.

Thats why people are upset. When you enter into a verbal or written contract and then back out, for anything other than extreme circumstances, people will always be upset.
 
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CrazyEddie said:
The site moderators disagree.
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I believe you are right, the whole dibs thing has been discussed before in another thread. Unfortunately the seller has the right to do whatever they want, sell or not sell to someone. At whatever price as long as the buyer is willing to pay and there isn’t any theft or fraud.... you are correct, but someone did get robbed on the poker chips they got hijacked from a higher offer. Just have the mind set I have for work... anticipate the worst and hope for the best :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
Hammer2171 said:
I believe you are right, the whole dibs thing has been discussed before in another thread. Unfortunately the seller has the right to do whatever they want, sell or not sell to someone. At whatever price as long as the buyer is willing to pay and there isn’t any theft or fraud.... you are correct, but someone did get robbed on the poker chips they got hijacked from a higher offer. Just have the mind set I have for work... anticipate the worst and hope for the best :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
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I think it’s more nuanced than that. I could be wrong, but their position is probably more along the lines of the dibs system works best for non-auctions (as it had for years) if everyone stands by their word and acts with integrity BUT it’s not up to the moderators to write rules, police, or enforce these things. It is a community and members should act with integrity, police, and resolve these issues themselves like grown ups.
 
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I like what @BarrieJ3 does, I have seen some of his sales with some type of 24hr dibs window with a random selection process. Because some people do live on the classifieds section and buy up all the good deals. I personally like seeing chips go to a home where it is completing someone’s chip set, or actually going to be used and not resold months later in the classifieds for a higher price, when it could have already been sold to someone who really needed/wanted the chips. I liked @davislane suggestion that if someone has a wanted ad for those specific poker chips, they should get FROR, since they publicly came out and said I need these such chips and please help me find them.
 
Just wanted to say that I can appreciate pieces of all of these arguments. I think for the transaction in question here, a lot of issues would have been solved by explicitly stating that it wasn't going to be a dibs transaction. Also - I understand that he did mention that priority would go to larger lots, but then he also turned around and gave a single rack to some unknown party (again, totally his right).

Everything that happened after the transaction, is a separate issue. i think most of the backlash here is because of the member's attitude and general animosity (as much as he denies it) towards pretty much everyone else. Totally appreciate you're not here to make friends, and you're only here for the money to make a profit, and you think everyone here should go get f*cked. But spoiler alert: PCF is a community and I think most here would like to continue to operate as such. There are plenty of other environments to sell your chips if your only aim is to make a profit and you have absolutely zero interest in being a contributing member of a community forum.

Should you be strung up and crucified for wanting to sell at a profit or sell to whomever you choose? No.
Should you maybe accept that your ad wasn't quite as clear as it could have been? Yes.
Should you try to appreciate how a bunch of members might be upset with the way things went down? I think so.
 
jpietrella said:
Just wanted to say that I can appreciate pieces of all of these arguments. I think for the transaction in question here, a lot of issues would have been solved by explicitly stating that it wasn't going to be a dibs transaction. Also - I understand that he did mention that priority would go to larger lots, but then he also turned around and gave a single rack to some unknown party (again, totally his right).

Everything that happened after the transaction, is a separate issue. i think most of the backlash here is because of the member's attitude and general animosity (as much as he denies it) towards pretty much everyone else. Totally appreciate you're not here to make friends, and you're only here for the money to make a profit, and you think everyone here should go get f*cked. But spoiler alert: PCF is a community and I think most here would like to continue to operate as such. There are plenty of other environments to sell your chips if your only aim is to make a profit and you have absolutely zero interest in being a contributing member of a community forum.

Should you be strung up and crucified for wanting to sell at a profit or sell to whomever you choose? No.
Should you maybe accept that your ad wasn't quite as clear as it could have been? Yes.
Should you try to appreciate how a bunch of members might be upset with the way things went down? I think so.
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Ya, don’t tell us to get F***** that’s not cool, I highly doubt he tells that to his family, which is what we are, a community/family of friends who try to do right by one another and help each other out when possible. So many people have been so nice and helpful to me, why would I ever want to do anything wrong to anyone on here. If you aren’t here to make friends but just profit, that’s fine too, but don’t be a dumb ass, because you don’t know your pricing on certain chips. If you have something stated at a set price, then sell it for that price Jack Ass. Don’t be like, “well I didn’t know I could get more for them, so I’m going to sell to someone with a higher offer.” That’s chicken shit, because you didn’t want to take the time to research prices. I always say set the price at what you feel comfortable selling it for and if it doesn’t sell, then lower your price or take down the listing if you don’t want to sell for a cheaper price.
 
Eloe2000 said:
I think it’s more nuanced than that. I could be wrong, but their position is probably more along the lines of the dibs system works best for non-auctions (as it had for years) if everyone stands by their word and acts with integrity BUT it’s not up to the moderators to write rules, police, or enforce these things. It is a community and members should act with integrity, police, and resolve these issues themselves like grown ups.
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Nope. This is their position and it doesn't seem nuanced at all:

there is no site rule for or against dibs
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1612969426037.png
 
jpietrella said:
I think for the transaction in question here, a lot of issues would have been solved by explicitly stating that it wasn't going to be a dibs transaction.
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Why should the default presumption be that the first person who responds has the right to demand that the seller sell to him?

Since when does a buyer - one or a hundred buyers - get to decide the terms under which someone else disposes of their own property?
 
CrazyEddie said:
Why should the default presumption be that the first person who responds has the right to demand that the seller sell to him?

Since when does a buyer - one or a hundred buyers - get to decide the terms under which someone else disposes of their own property?
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No where in my statement did I say that the buyer gets to determine the terms under which someone else disposes their own property.

As a new member, it seems to me that the majority of sales ads are posted assuming dibs system is in place, unless explicitly stated otherwise. That's been my observation since joining in September. Is that inaccurate?
 
jpietrella said:
No where in my statement did I say that the buyer gets to determine the terms under which someone else disposes their own property.

As a new member, it seems to me that the majority of sales ads are posted assuming dibs system is in place, unless explicitly stated otherwise. That's been my observation since joining in September. Is that inaccurate?
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The majority - probably the vast majority - of sellers are perfectly happy, perhaps even eagerly desiring, to honor dibs in their sales and will do so without having to say a word about it.

That doesn't mean that anyone should expect that everyone who doesn't explicitly disclaim dibs in their sales posting a) wants to run a dibs sale and b) should be held to dibs requirements. That's a presumption on the buyers' part, a presumption that is unwarranted.

Edit: To make my point clear: You can safely assume that any ad that doesn't say otherwise is a dibs ad, and whoever posts (or maybe PMs) first is going to get the sale. BUT you also have to accept that maybe that's not the case, and maybe the seller will choose to sell to whoever he damn well feels like for whatever reason he chooses and that that's okay because he's allowed to even if he didn't explicitly say that the sale is not a dibs sale, because selling under his own terms is well within a seller's right.

So dibs away! But don't get upset if it turns out that in some particular case your dibs mean nothing. You have no right to expect that they will, even though usually they do.
 
CrazyEddie said:
The majority - probably the vast majority - of sellers are perfectly happy, perhaps even eagerly desiring, to honor dibs in their sales and will do so without having to say a word about it.

That doesn't mean that anyone should expect that everyone who doesn't explicitly disclaim dibs in their sales posting a) wants to run a dibs sale and b) should be held to dibs requirements. That's a presumption on the buyers' part, a presumption that is unwarranted.
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If the vast majority of sales are conducted via ”dibs” wouldn’t it be more appropriate if sellers who wanted to use some other system explicitly said so in their threads?
 
Eriks said:
If the vast majority of sales are conducted via ”dibs” wouldn’t it be more appropriate if sellers who wanted to use some other system explicitly said so in their threads?
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It's always good for everyone to provide more information rather than less about the terms of their sales.

It's not at all appropriate to demand that someone who has posted no terms be forced to conduct the sale under the terms that you think should apply.
 
CrazyEddie said:
It's not at all appropriate to demand that someone who has posted no terms be forced to conduct the sale under the terms that you think should apply.
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Fair. But let's not pretend like the terms that folks are assuming apply are just pulled out of thin air or are based solely on how they feel. They're assuming they apply because they typically apply in 95% of sales, which I think is quite a fair assumption.

Seller is obviously under no obligation to take that into account, but to just completely ignore it just feels dick-ish.
 
CrazyEddie said:
It's always good for everyone to provide more information rather than less about the terms of their sales.

It's not at all appropriate to demand that someone who has posted no terms be forced to conduct the sale under the terms that you think should apply.
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Fair enough. Terms should be stated regardless of system used. Everyone wins if sale threads are clear and unambiguous
 
It's a fair assumption, but not one that anyone should hold to once it's made clear that the assumption doesn't apply.

In other words, "Oh, I didn't get the sale even though I called it first. I guess this wasn't a dibs sale. Well, darn."

Not "I WAS ROBBED AND HE IS EVIL".
 
SpaceMonkey420 said:
Is it “scummy” to come into PM and offer more or post “DIBS” on all of it?
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I love love love when somebody dibs the whole lot out from under the “if split” vultures. Especially if some of them say “dips if split pending price.”
Listen. This guy listed a single lot, made up of a bunch of racks. He doesn’t want to do math, he doesn’t want to ship to 5 different people, and he doesn’t want the headaches! Buy the lot or don’t!
 
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