WWYD? Guy messes w/ your card protector during all in moment... (2 Viewers)

[bergs]

So what would the ruling be if something like this had happened?

Scenario 1. Player A goes all in. Player B is contemplating a call. Player C, sitting next to Player A, reaches for Player A's card protector without permission. Player A's top card sticks to the card protector and is exposed in the process.

Scenario 2. Same as above except Player B is the one who reaches for the card protector.

Scenario 3. A non-player observing the game reaches for the card protector, exposing a card in the process.


For max carnage and mayhem, lets say the board has 4 to a flush, Player A's exposed card is the Ace of said suit.

I'm assuming in Scenario 2 Player B's hand is dead Player A scoops pot.

This is actually pretty interesting and may be worthy of a separate thread. I had a player intentionally muck his hand into mine at the Venetian this weekend. I normally hold onto my cards on the table 100% of the time but let them go briefly to tip a waitress and when I looked down I had 4 cards. Had to call the floor, step away and tell him my hand, and he looked at the 4 cards and mucked the two that we're mine (I had KK and lost a big pot to AA, LOL, should've just folded LDO).

Anyway, I think with Scenario 1 it's on Player A to protect his hand. Player B's option to call or fold.
With Scenario 2, I'd kill Player B's hand and the pot has it stands right now goes to Player A.
Scenario 3 is the same as Scenario 1.

Interested in feedback around these...

 

[Trihonda]

Player A's top card sticks to the card protector and is exposed in the process.

Funny part, is that if you press hard onto my cased card protector, it sorta suctions onto the card, and I can pick up cards with it... I could see this happening.

 

[bentax1978]

This may have been mentioned before, but there's an enormous difference between touching someone's card protector while it's being used (in the middle of a hand to protect cards) and when it's not being used between hands or after a fold. I'm not suggesting that uninvited touching of your card protector is ok, but certainly during a hand while it's in use is clearly unacceptable.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Is it really a card protector then, or a card defector?

 

[bergs]

Honda you may want to develop some ways to nullify bad presence at the table with pointed humor. I referenced it earlier but I was in an O8 hand with a guy that asked me if I even enjoy playing Omaha and I'm like "sometimes yes, sometimes I hate it". I had just beaten him in a largish pot. He made a comment about "You wouldn't know it, playing against you is like playing against a child" so I laughed and said "Goo-goo-gaa-gaa". He kept at me every hand for about 2 orbits on the "You play like a child" thing and the table got awkwardly silent because he wasn't kidding around - he was pissed that I play aggressively. Younger guy too, which made it unusual.

Anyway, it finally got weird laughing this off because they were pointed attacks so after a hand he scooped me on the river, he started in again about "beating you is like beating a child".

I turned to the table and loudly said "HEY EVERYBODY, SEAT 4 IS A PEDOPHILE. WHEEEEEEEEEEE LETS GO TO SUBWAY!!!!"

He left me alone after that. Table laughed, him, not so much.

 

[10centguitar]

I would have sternly told the guy we were in a hand and then I would have said "dealer?", to get the dealers attention to the matter. After the hand that player and I would have a discussion about etiquette at the table.

Card protectors seem more trouble than they are worth to me. You can just as easily use a low denom chip from you stack, and I dont even do that. I just keep my hand on my cards. Never once have I had a dealer try to snatch them.

I never really understood why card protectors are so appealing to players (both owners and onlookers). Some use them as statements that they are in the know, or as good luck charms like the OP said. Sometimes they are so gaudy or blend in so well with the chips at the table that they can be distracting. (Although sometimes people have some really cool ones.)

I guess I express my personality differently. My persona has nothing to do with objects I carry.

However, it is not acceptable to touch anyone's property without their permission. That was not cool. If someone has a really cool card protector, I will generally refrain from even asking about it let alone reaching over to pick it up. I have run into a lot of guys who find it distracting when people talk about their protectors even when they arent in a hand. (of course if they didn't bring distracting things to the table...)

Little Side Note:

I hunt for card protector types. They tend to be introverted nitty players and their conservative physical nature makes it far easier for me to notice any deviations in their behavior.
Also the ritual they go through while looking at their cards and then the way they place the protector on top of their cards tend to vary with how they like their cards or the situation. Particularly when something got them hot.

A sentinel can stand at attention for hours, but watch their face when they have an itch on the bottom of their foot.

 

[manamongkids]

I would have sternly told the guy we were in a hand and then I would have said "dealer?", to get the dealers attention to the matter. After the hand that player and I would have a discussion about etiquette at the table.

Card protectors seem more trouble than they are worth to me. You can just as easily use a low denom chip from you stack, and I dont even do that. I just keep my hand on my cards. Never once have I had a dealer try to snatch them.

I never really understood why card protectors are so appealing to players (both owners and onlookers). Some use them as statements that they are in the know, or as good luck charms like the OP said. Sometimes they are so gaudy or blend in so well with the chips at the table that they can be distracting. (Although sometimes people have some really cool ones.)

I guess I express my personality differently. My persona has nothing to do with objects I carry.

However, it is not acceptable to touch anyone's property without their permission. That was not cool. If someone has a really cool card protector, I will generally refrain from even asking about it let alone reaching over to pick it up. I have run into a lot of guys who find it distracting when people talk about their protectors even when they arent in a hand. (of course if they didn't bring distracting things to the table...)

Little Side Note:

I hunt for card protector types. They tend to be introverted nitty players and their conservative physical nature makes it far easier for me to notice any deviations in their behavior.
Also the ritual they go through while looking at their cards and then the way they place the protector on top of their cards tend to vary with how they like their cards or the situation. Particularly when something got them hot.

A sentinel can stand at attention for hours, but watch their face when they have an itch on the bottom of their foot.

Lol, always exception to the rule but generally speaking .....card protector=donk

 

[bentax1978]

Card protectors seem more trouble than they are worth to me. You can just as easily use a low denom chip from you stack, and I dont even do that

I don't use a card protector when I play, as I generally use a $1 chip to protect my cards when I'm in a hand. Unless it's a really premium hand, then I'll use a $5. That way the other players know I'm really serious about the hand.

 

[p5woody]

Lol, always exception to the rule but generally speaking .....card protector=donk

You might be right, I use a card protector and I am a donk. It might be weird, but I designed my own protector and it has a couple of things to keep my mind right when playing. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Ronoh]

PCF games are the only place i ever use a card protector... more than anything else it's just to make appearances in stack pics posted on the forum.

I like to spin it too

 

[ChaosRock]

Lol, always exception to the rule but generally speaking .....card protector=donk

I'm definetely not an exception to this rule, although more and more I'm getting to a habit of just holding my cards rather than using my capper...

 

[Trihonda]

Honda you may want to develop some ways to nullify bad presence at the table with pointed humor

When I commented about punching the next guy at the table... Everyone laughed. I was using humor to educate. The dealer, who knows me very well, knows I would never actually punch a guy over a touched chip, not even if it cost me a several hundred dollar pot. I have been practicing/teaching martial arts for a very long time, and it was obviously meant as a joke, and the table took it that way.

I hunt for card protector types. They tend to be introverted nitty players and their conservative physical nature makes it far easier for me to notice any deviations in their behavior. Also the ritual they go through while looking at their cards and then the way they place the protector on top of their cards tend to vary with how they like their cards or the situation

Clearly exploitable behavior... on both sides of the coin

 

[courage]

lol Card Protector Theory 101.

 

[links_slayer]

PCF games are the only place i ever use a card protector... more than anything else it's just to make appearances in stack pics posted on the forum.

I like to spin it too

It also tilts the bejeezus out of Badger fans at the table....

 

[jbutler]

...more than anything else it's just to make appearances in stack pics posted on the forum.

Yeah, same for me. I've used friends' customs as card protectors before just because it's fun to post a big stack (or a paltry one) with their chip and credit them for my success or (particularly in the case of courage's little green deuce) blame them for my failure.

I hunt for card protector types. They tend to be introverted nitty players and their conservative physical nature makes it far easier for me to notice any deviations in their behavior.
Also the ritual they go through while looking at their cards and then the way they place the protector on top of their cards tend to vary with how they like their cards or the situation. Particularly when something got them hot.

A sentinel can stand at attention for hours, but watch their face when they have an itch on the bottom of their foot.

Lol, always exception to the rule but generally speaking .....card protector=donk

But I do agree with this. If I go into a card room and have a choice between two tables and a guy sitting at one has a huge stack and a bunch of little trinkets, I'm making a beeline for that table.

 

[Trihonda]

I have played many hours of poker with Eric and he is a great guy. I think the real issue is how situations come across when typed up on the internet vs. talked about in person. Eric explains things in great detail in his posts and that opens him up to nitpicking. In person, you would be able to tell it was just an interesting story.

I think this sums it up..

Now, I have to be detailed in all written accounts at work, and I probably would have been able to ask my question about the card protector infraction had I just said this:

"I was playing at a local bar game, was just shoved on for $140, and some other dude reaches over and grabs my card protector... WWYD?" Not sure it tells quite the same story (without all the background info). But I'll try to not share all the details in the future, lol.


Ya, to me, I don't see much drama in my story. Now, the guy who got stabbed in the neck (that I had to stay late for)? Well, he and the suspect work together currently, and they lived together briefly for a couple months, but SHE kicked him out, because she thought he was sleeping with his "baby's momma", but then she kept calling HIM to try to get back together. However, SHE was also hooking up with HER "baby's daddy" at the same time. Now she keeps threatening HIM that her "babby's daddy" is in a gang and will "find him". He never reports this to anyone. She keeps harassing him at work, and he tries to ignore her. One of her threats is to get HIM put in jail. So because HE doesn't want to get back together with her, She calls the cops to make a false report that HE tried to choke her out at work. However, the camera actually shows HER confronting HIM, while he tries to go around her and ignore her, and then SHE stabs him in the neck with a PEN. She is going to jail now....

Now THAT's ^ drama, not some guy touching a card protector, lol. But anyway...


Edited to add: You just can't make sh!t like this up. THAT is what I had to deal with on my last two days at work... and people questioned why I needed to get away and play an evening of cards... lol

And for the record, "baby's daddy" and "baby's momma" are not MY words.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Oh my gawd becky, and then she said, and I was like, and then she was like!

 

[Racer96]

I hunt for card protector types. They tend to be introverted nitty players and their conservative physical nature makes it far easier for me to notice any deviations in their behavior.
Also the ritual they go through while looking at their cards and then the way they place the protector on top of their cards tend to vary with how they like their cards or the situation. Particularly when something got them hot.
.

I like using card protectors, and that totally describes me to a TEE. Or, you know, maybe not.

Mike

 

[Racer96]

A few other comments about things in this thread:

-) Bar game. Cash game. AQ suited on the button. If that isn't the sexiest thing at the bar, then go immediately to the sexiest thing at the bar. (And send perv shots)

-) The amount of times Bergs' penis is brought up, makes me a little nervous. And a little excited. Let me go slurp some noodles.

-) Trihonda has the all time record for posts containing "local poker pro" and "Can you believe this shit?!" Someone needs to film the action at his table every time he goes to a bar game. There will be a bidding war from networks to air it.

-) As per courage, card protector theory is awesome. One time I brought a mini rc car as a card protector and drove it around the table on breaks. Not sure what that means. (Bluff? Strong? Insane?)

-) No fifth item, but four is a bad luck number. (bad luck will follow unless I use three more lucky trinkets, and I have now been educated that using trinkets shows that I am a nit. and conservative. just don't tell my hair or my kilt)

Mike

 

[links_slayer]

I've gotten to know some seriously awesome folks at the poker tables in Vegas because of my links_strong card protector. Well, "gotten to know" might be a bit of an overstatement - but I talked to them more than I normally would have. A couple of them even took me up on my offer to give them one of my extras that I conveniently had in my pocket.

 

[bergs]

..... Let me go slurp some noodles.


Mike

Aw, man, you had to go there?

 

[Trihonda]

Aw, man, you had to go there?

View attachment 20779

Um, expecting any fishy players at your game?

 

[courage]

Aw, man, you had to go there?

View attachment 20779

Talk about psycho...but oh so awesome.

 

[stocky]

I've played a bit. Not as much as most of you. But there has been plenty of shit go down that's worse than OPs.

Players grabbing hole cards to see what you have when they aren't in the hand.

Stoners so wacked off their heads that they do everything against etiquette there is 100x

Drunk guy trying to kiss another guy and getting thrown to the floor. (Drunk guy only allowed to play when other can't make it.)

Dickhead recording a mates testimony about sleeping with hookers then posting it on Facebook.

And many more I've forgotten. My point? I can't remember.

 

[Strike1st]

When my brother ran his card house touching anything not yours could of ended with you shanked...if my brother didn't throw you out fast enough.

 

[ledge4131]

OK, here's the deal, I'm wondering how you might have handled or felt about a situation that occurred last night. Note: As I write this, I've had very little sleep over the last two nights. I can barely see straight, but this hand was weighing on me, so I wanted to write it out.

Background:

Playing 1/2 at my local bar game. Cast of characters is a bunch of crafty degens. These tables are often very agro, opening for $12-20. 15 mins earlier, I was felted by a drunk/high hyper spewy kid. In that instance, this kid announced he was cashing out, but since cards were dealt to him as he was racking up, he was gonna play the hand. It was a major suckout, but that's not part of the story. Prior to that hand, he grabs my cased Par-A-Dice 1000 chip card protector and fondles it and then tosses it back. Aside from getting felted (oh well), I am NOT a fan of someone (especially some that I don't know) grabbing anything from my stack area w/o permission, especially not my card protector. I'm not overly superstitious, but to many people, card protectors can also be good luck charms, etc... To me, my card protector symbolizes more of a routine, and maybe a bit of zen/run good (not sure how to explain it). It's protecting MY hand... Suffice it to say, after the guy felts me (and another player), he finished cashing out (for $900) and hits the door.

A new guy takes his place (another hyper villain, who announces he really likes action tables, and chose our table over the 2nd cash table that's running). I make an announcement to the table (friendly banter) that if anyone else touches my card protector, I'm going to "punch them squarely in the jaw", and joke that he touched my card protector, and then sucked out runner runner against me... The table laughs, but there's a serious note in my message, that it wasn't cool to grab my sh!t...

OK, fast forward a couple orbits, I've recovered nicely and am now sitting on around $380 on a total BI of $240. I'm on the button and joke that the book I'm reading says you're supposed to play aggressive on the button. The new agro guy (directly to my right) opens for $12 (I don't really put him on anything strong), and I look down at a sexy . I raise to $25, and our hyper dude calls. I don't think he puts me on anything due to my pre-hand button statement.

Flop comes and hyper dude (who I read doesn't see anything on the flop he likes) checks. I C-Bet for $40, and Hyper dude looks like he's strategizing. He's either got a monster or nothing IMHO. He announces raise, but doesn't seem overly confident (is he acting?). Anyway, he goes all-on, and after calling my $40, he has $95 behind. The dealer counts his stack, and announces it's $95 to call. I start to replay the hand, his actions, etc... in my head. The table is quiet, awaiting my action. Here's where it gets interesting...

Another hyper lag from across the table (he's currently standing nearby drinking a beer), reaches over the table and grabs my card protector and says "hey, what's this?".. Now, I'm not sure this hyper lag was at the table during my prior speech (he was probably at the bar getting a drink, not sure). The whole table erupts, people's eyes bug out, almost as if they all expect me to fly across the table, grab this guy, and start to pound the crap out of him (which I would never do, it's just poker). However, truth be told, this did completely interrupt my thought process and send me into a hot-head moment for a few seconds, like WTF? I try to regain my thought composure and refocus on the hand, but the moment escapes me, and I'm having a hard time focusing at the moment (yes, very little sleep, my fault, I get it). When I am faced with hard poker decisions, and I don't have a solid read or there's some negative karma/action ongoing, I often opt to fold and pic spots were I have a better read or position. I frustratingly muck my hand (I was close to calling), and the hyper villain shows the bluff with .

Now, I didn't cause any sort of ruckus at moment, but the table announced that they really thought dude was gonna get his butt kicked, and he sorta apologized by saying he had no idea I had announced not to touch my card protector (should I need to announce it?). I blew it off, as getting all pissy about something that has already passed, only will hurt my chances at making good table decisions in the hands that followed... The dealer told me after the game broke that he was pissed at the dude, since regardless of the ju ju and superstitious crap of a card protector, there was all-on action, and I was facing a big decision, and this guy rudely interrupted the hand by grabbing my card protector (which I might add, was on top of my ). Had I made the call, my stack would have likely been +$225.

In this instance, would anyone have flown over the table and punched this guy? Would anyone care? WWYD?

Is it a big deal for folks (strangers) to reach over to your chip stack and pick up your card protector to examine it? Again, I don't really mind, so long as people ask, as then it gives me an opportunity to talk about nice poker chips

Simple ...

 

[10centguitar]

-) No fifth item, but four is a bad luck number. (bad luck will follow unless I use three more lucky trinkets, and I have now been educated that using trinkets shows that I am a nit. and conservative. just don't tell my hair or my kilt)

Mike[/QUOTE]

I said,

"they tend to be introverted nitty players"

My use of the word tend, most certainly means that I don't think they all are...

Sorry if you felt I meant that.

 

[lherron]

The price you pay for finding a juicy game full of drunks is that you have to deal with a bunch of stupid drunks.

Sorry to pull this earlier post back into the thread but it's just too perfect...

 

[bergs]

Sorry to pull this earlier post back into the thread but it's just too perfect...

"The price you pay for finding a juicy game full of drunks is that you have to deal with a bunch of stupid drunks."

For some reason when I read this I said out loud to myself "The problem with Scawtland is that it's full of Scawts". People in my office are looking at me funny now, wondering what my problem with Scots from Scotland is. Not that I need one.

 

[Anthony Martino]

For some reason when I read this I said out loud to myself "The problem with Scawtland is that it's full of Scawts". People in my office are looking at me funny now, wondering what my problem with Scots from Scotland is. Not that I need one.

If we can't get them out..........we'll breed them out!