Cash Game “Whatever you bet, I’m gonna call” Conditional Statement? (26 Viewers)

[upNdown]

This came up on Bart’s podcast recently. In a casino cash game, drunk guy first to act checks the river, and announces “whatever you bet, I’m gonna call.” His opponent goes all in. Drunk guy tables his hand, mumbling about what he flopped, but without actually calling or putting in any chips. His opponent tables the winning hand, and expects his all-in bet to be paid off.
Floor rules that drunk guy made a “conditional statement” and thus he was obligated to call. Apparently Mohegan Sun has a rule that if a condition statement is made, the floor can make the judgement call that the statement was binding.
Thoughts?
I guess my thought is, if that’s Mohegan’s posted rule, then fine, that’s their rule. I’m not sure it’s a good rule, but in an “eff around and find out” kind of way, I don’t hate it.

But has anybody seen a rule or ruling like that before?

 

[demonnic]

I saw that video and I'm a bit conflicted about it. I mean, their house their rules and all that but it doesn't really feel like a good rule. Definitely an element of FAFO involved though.

 

[jpietrella]

Something similar actually happened to me at Encore, somewhat recently. The guy wasn't drunk but made the same statement to me on the river card where I boated up with Queens full. I shoved, he tables his hand, I tabled my hand and asked the dealer "that was a conditional statement correct? He's committed to call?"

They called the floor, talked it over and made him put his chips in for the call. I don't know if it's a posted rule there but that's how they ruled it in that instance.

 

[jpietrella]

Something similar actually happened to me at Encore, somewhat recently. The guy wasn't drunk but made the same statement to me on the river card where I boated up with Queens full. I shoved, he tables his hand, I tabled my hand and asked the dealer "that was a conditional statement correct? He's committed to call?"

They called the floor, talked it over and made him put his chips in for the call. I don't know if it's a posted rule there but that's how they ruled it in that instance.

And I should clarify if it was a friendly game or a friendly player, I probably wouldn't have prompted the dealer. This guy was a total c*nt though, so I pressed the FAFO button as hard as I could.

 

[TheYeti]

Can't agree with the ruling, but house rules is house rules I guess.

In my home game and any casino I've played in, verbal declarations in turn are binding. I would have ruled this as "out of turn" and hence not binding.

 

[Omar65]

Hmmm.....I could see that statement being made in my game. I was not sure how I would rule on it if it did but after thinking it through and talking with a poker friend of mine, I think its the right ruling. Verbal statements are binding makes it make sense, but I had to convince myself that this would still hold true even if the action to you had not yet occurred. I think I got to that point thinking about a scenario where someone says "check" out of turn, or checks blind, then when the action actually gets to them, they bet, or try to bet after actually looking at their cards.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

This came up on Bart’s podcast recently. In a casino cash game, drunk guy first to act checks the river, and announces “whatever you bet, I’m gonna call.” His opponent goes all in. Drunk guy tables his hand, mumbling about what he flopped, but without actually calling or putting in any chips. His opponent tables the winning hand, and expects his all-in bet to be paid off.
Floor rules that drunk guy made a “conditional statement” and thus he was obligated to call. Apparently Mohegan Sun has a rule that if a condition statement is made, the floor can make the judgement call that the statement was binding.
Thoughts?
I guess my thought is, if that’s Mohegan’s posted rule, then fine, that’s their rule. I’m not sure it’s a good rule, but in an “eff around and find out” kind of way, I don’t hate it.

But has anybody seen a rule or ruling like that before?

I've had to rule on this at my game a few times. As it turns out, drunk bastards do stupid drunk bastard shit and need to be reigned in.

I use WSOP rules (see rule below). I give a player 1 warning, and then drop the hammer after that making them follow through on their conditional bet.

WSOP Rule

61. Conditional statements regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged; they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at Tournament Director’s discretion in accordance with Rules 40, 113, and 114. Example: “if – then” statements such as “If you bet, then I will raise.”

Rules 40, 113, and 114 discuss the integrity of the game and potential penalties.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I've had to rule on this at my game a few times. As it turns out, drunk bastards do stupid drunk bastard shit and need to be reigned in.

I use WSOP rules (see rule below). I give a player 1 warning, and then drop the hammer after that making them follow through on their conditional bet.

WSOP Rule

61. Conditional statements regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged; they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at Tournament Director’s discretion in accordance with Rules 40, 113, and 114. Example: “if – then” statements such as “If you bet, then I will raise.”

Rules 40, 113, and 114 discuss the integrity of the game and potential penalties.

There is a noteworthy caveat that sometimes saves the drunk fools. If the action changes before it's the drunk fool's turn to act, he's off the hook. It's treated the same as acting out of turn.

 

[buzzmonkey]

I would not rule it a call in my game because the action was not on the commenting player, but I would discourage that behavior and make sure the other player was aware in the future.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Can't agree with the ruling, but house rules is house rules I guess.

In my home game and any casino I've played in, verbal declarations in turn are binding. I would have ruled this as "out of turn" and hence not binding.

Agreed. Not your turn, not binding. At least at our table.

 

[acezag]

The statement + flipping his cards after hero shows his is very standard angle shooting behavior, regardless of how much he's drunk.
If he shows a winner in that scenario, he's 100% trying to rake the pot.

The floor ruling is great - angle shooters are scammers.

 

[joeyshin]

Knowing that different casinos or house rules may differ if I jammed and somebody table their hand, then I would ask “did you call?” before o table mine

 

[allforcharity]

I would like to say that the conditional statement made out of turn is not binding....

But....

It could be used as an angle shoot, so I would punish the angle shooter by making it binding.

Depends on how mean I want to be, I suppose.