Cash Game A player at my home game likes to show one of his cards during the hand (river), thoughts? (3 Viewers)

[upNdown]

I don’t blame you or the other guy for not wanting “free information” because it’s obviously being done in an attempt to deceive. But this is poker and it’s a game of deception.
When somebody gets all table talky on me trying to influence my decisions, I usually try to ignore them and continue playing the hand as I would. And I think that’s the best solution here.
You could institute a rule saying you can’t table a single card, or you can’t tell the guy one of your cards or you’re not allowed to talk about the hand. Those are all standard rules in tournament poker. But if you’re playing cash, you’re just stifling the game. It really would be similar to making a “no checkraise” rule. I’ve heard that of games have that rule and I think it’s silly.
So in the end, it’s your game, your rules. You can make rules to stifle the game. Or you can choose not to invite the talker to your game. But I think that’s bad poker.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

What games don’t allow check raising? check raising is one of only a few actions you can even do.
I’ve heard this vaguely reference before, where someone implied that a game doesn’t allow check raising, and that is bananas to me

Check raising used to be seen as a dirty tactic and was considered disrespectful. Obviously more accepted nowadays.

 

[grebe]

Hey OP, here's my take on your situation:

-you have a player that is being a dick. Now, I have no problems with this, as long as he does it in a timely fashion. Tanking and playing these stupid games, acting like he is "getting a read"....whatever (he's not, by the way. It's all a show). It's something people do. I would be more concerned about how much time he is taking up, rather than how he is being a dick.

-Here is how I would address it if I were the host: take him aside, tell him he is being annoying (in private). Then I would tell him, he is free to show people their cards, but if he continues to slow the game down, "clock" will be called aggressively on him.

-Talk to the other player. Let him know there are no rules to protect him from table antics such as these. He is free to call clock on said player at any point. Also, grow a pair.

Implementing a rule that you can't freely give players info is not wise. It would be as silly as a house rule that no check raising is allowed. You know, to not hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[grebe]

It really would be similar to making a “no checkraise” rule. I’ve heard that of games have that rule and I think it’s silly.

Ha! typed my response, then went back and read yours! Like minds think agreat....or something like that.

 

[Frogzilla]

Check raising used to be seen as a dirty tactic and was considered disrespectful. Obviously more accepted nowadays.

I always find it funny that the Venetian has “check-raising is allowed” right there in the rules on the wall.

Anyways you’re allowed to say/do whatever you want heads up as long as it isn’t abusive, and showing a card even if other player doesn’t want to see it isn’t abusive

 

[chippitydoodah]

Hey OP, here's my take on your situation:

-you have a player that is being a dick. Now, I have no problems with this, as long as he does it in a timely fashion. Tanking and playing these stupid games, acting like he is "getting a read"....whatever (he's not, by the way. It's all a show). It's something people do. I would be more concerned about how much time he is taking up, rather than how he is being a dick.

-Here is how I would address it if I were the host: take him aside, tell him he is being annoying (in private). Then I would tell him, he is free to show people their cards, but if he continues to slow the game down, "clock" will be called aggressively on him.

-Talk to the other player. Let him know there are no rules to protect him from table antics such as these. He is free to call clock on said player at any point. Also, grow a pair.

Implementing a rule that you can't freely give players info is not wise. It would be as silly as a house rule that no check raising is allowed. You know, to not hurt anyone's feelings.

You got the "being a dick" part right but it's not slowing the game down as the action is on the other player (villain already bet). It's a shame when a player chooses to emulate a dickhead pro (William Kassouf or lately Eric Persson although Daniel Negreanu has shown his cards when the action is on him and does talk after betting like when he told a player the hand he put him on, was right, and that player folded a winning hand).

 

[Sparkynutz]

Our group is typically pretty light hearted. I frequently call that I have a flush when the board shows its not even possible. Another guy says 5 aces, etc. Some of the guys offer to show one card and I've never seen it not accepted. Usually they say show me both

 

[Poker Zombie]

Hi guys,

Long story short, a player and friend of mine at my cash games likes to play psychological poker and talk a lot of BS, make comments etc. this is fine since it's part of the game altough it can be too much after 5 hours of playing.
One thing he's been doing multiple times at each session though, is showing one of his cards to the other player right before last action is made (typically he would bet big or go all in, then tell the other player "I will show you one card").
I've always thought that this is a bit cheeky/dumb, but he does take that approach with poker.

Last session though, he did tell the other player "I'm going to show you one" and the other player said no, turning his head away and hiding his sight from the yet-to-be revealed card. That player despite it all, revealed the card, so I instantly told him no to do that if the other player doesn't want to see it, and turned the card face down. He then went on to announce the card out loud.

I have told him that this is ill behavior and that he should not repeat it, he then told me he could do what he wanted since it's heads up on the river.
Another player looked that up and found that in that situation you cannot only show one card, but you should show both if you wanted to play it like this.

I'm banning this from now on, what do you guys think?

If there is only one culprit that is tilting other players, it is not worthy of making a rule. I would make one of the following decisions, based on more information...

• If only one player does not like the show, then the issue is with the player that does not want the information. He can quit coming or ask if "shower" is attending before he confirms. I would make that extra effort for friends, but would not ban the practice.
• If that one player was me, I would politely ask him at the end of the night to discontinue the attempt to tilt the host. It's simple really. Just say "Your play is legal. I don't like it. I'm asking you nicely, cut it out". If he disrespects your request, his invite will be placed on suspension. When he wonders why it's simple to explain. He can get his invite back, but he must respect not intentionally tilting the host.
• If multiple players do not like the information, I would tell "shower" after the game that he is tilting multiple people. Either he can quit doing that, or that can quit - and point out you would rather lose one player than multiple players.

A hard rule makes the game less approachable to future players and can be awkward if the rule is not enforced for everyone, especially if an exceptionally friendly player shows to just let a poor sap off the hook.

Don't punish everyone because one person needs to be put in check.

 

[AuburnSeth]

Check raising used to be seen as a dirty tactic and was considered disrespectful. Obviously more accepted nowadays.

That is very interesting. Sometimes check raising is the only way to get thin value out of someone or to allow them to bluff, so I see it as a part of the game. Otherwise people that want to have it and don’t want I don’t.

 

[KHarp1]

Years ago the check raise was considered a bush league move, but, I view it as similar to the trap. I rarely use it, but, consider it a good move to get value occasionally. Unlike the trap, if you're check raising a made hand it won't cost you the pot.

 

[AuburnSeth]

Years ago the check raise was considered a bush league move, but, I view it as similar to the trap. I rarely use it, but, consider it a good move to get value occasionally. Unlike the trap, if you're check raising a made hand it won't cost you the pot.

NLHE is such a simple game that with only 4 betting rounds, options to check/bet/call, there are only a few total options on any given hand, so being able to sprint a trap with a check raise seems necessary. I’m glad it’s not disallowed

 

[MrCatPants]

Years ago the check raise was considered a bush league move, but, I view it as similar to the trap. I rarely use it, but, consider it a good move to get value occasionally. Unlike the trap, if you're check raising a made hand it won't cost you the pot.

Yup. There were rooms that had it banned supposedly.

 

[Kentucky]

Anyways you’re allowed to say/do whatever you want heads up as long as it isn’t abusive, and showing a card even if other player doesn’t want to see it isn’t abusive

This is the key to it for me - the A word.

If Villain is showing his cards to only one player over and over, and making a big deal about “He’s so shit he won’t make the right call even if I show him one card” then that’s pretty abusive in my book and all of you It’s FrEe InFoRmAtIoN guys won’t make me change my mind.

On the other hand the player being put to the test could be all “No… don’t show me your ATC trash… I know you can get here with anything” and taking it in good fun and giving back. That’s fine and good times and poker.

Intentionally tilting the host.

Context is King here. Anyone who behaves in a way that puts me (as host) on Tilt gets disinvited.

 

[trever]

I always find it funny that the Venetian has “check-raising is allowed” right there in the rules on the I

I once got BERATED by an otherwise nice older lady when I check raised her in a charity game.

 

[Frogzilla]

The easy response to “let me show you a card” is “ok but can I choose which one”. If it’s my game, I’d tell player B off-table to try that move instead.

 

[allforcharity]

I appreciate the free information. My actions at the table are based upon not knowing anybody hole cards, so a free reveal would likely not change my strategy nor worsen my odds, and has every chance of increasing my wins and preventing some losses. So, all good, reveal away!

 

[TudiscoKid]

The said player isn't a dick, he likes to play cheeky poker but he's fine.

What bothers me is the unwillingness to respect the other player while he said NO. In that instance the latter should not be obligated to seeing the former's card if he doesn't want to.

It's more of a matter of principle than a matter of "giving away free information".

 

[Klobberer]

It's your house...do what makes you comfortable. House rules always apply.

 

[AuburnSeth]

The easy response to “let me show you a card” is “ok but can I choose which one”. If it’s my game, I’d tell player B off-table to try that move instead.

You don’t have to consent to be shown a card, so he can always choose which one. Also, you get 1/2 of his hand if he shows you one, so it’s a win.

 

[Highli99]

There’s been a few rivers lately that I didn’t consent to. I’m a victim and deserve to be compensated. Where do I collect my settlements?

 

[AuburnSeth]

There’s been a few rivers lately that I didn’t consent to. I’m a victim and deserve to be compensated. Where do I collect my settlements?

I saw a poker tee shirt, it said “I don’t need sex - the River f’s me every day.”
poignant

 

[TudiscoKid]

I saw a poker tee shirt, it said “I don’t need sex - the River f’s me every day.”
poignant

I need this, I always get F-up when I have 70% equity or more. (Happened to me and bust me out twice during last session I had with respectively 80% and 85% equity)

 

[Mr Winberg]

he then told me he could do what he wanted since it's heads up on the river.

In a cash game he may show and/or announce on the river. Hell, heads up I'm pretty sure he can do it on any street.

Another player looked that up and found that in that situation you cannot only show one card, but you should show both if you wanted to play it like this.

Not true. He must be confusing it with the rule that you must show all cards during a showdown.

I'm banning this from now on, what do you guys think?

I don't like this. It's your game and you can have any rules you want, but banning this kind of thing makes the game boring.

Plus, it isn't fair to ban it! If he is good at this, why would you remove one of his tools? If someone else is good at reading people, will you then force that person to play blindfolded? Psychological play and reading are both parts of poker, why would you allow one but not the other?

Yeah but what about if the other player refuses to see the card?

It's not up to him. He has no right to demand that the other player keeps quiet about his cards. He can close his eyes and cover his ears, that's about it.