Classic poker chips is selling their company?? (4 Viewers)

[extreme517]

I do think there are potentially other ways to look at this as well:

1) Maybe David and David have other things they want to pursue with their time/changing seasons of life?

2) This is the winding down of CPC, but not necessarily the end of these molds being used to produce chips. This may prove to be a healthy "changing of the guard" and allow for continuation of chip production for the long haul.

That said, the change of ownership will certainly be an elongated learning curve/transition. David Spragg has done a magnificent job to be responsive and cater to this niche market.

We all know there are no guarantees in life, so I understand people taking this announcement heavily.

 

[Thomacetti]

That’s what I was thinking, and maybe it’s not financially viable to keep the doors open, but any downtime from lack of orders could be spent making a variety of shelf stock prepped for customers to just add a label or stamp and get in the short term. Monthly/quarterly color/spot changes produced at volumes to appease the crazy impulse wants. Interesting thought at the very least.

It's not like you can slap an INLAY on a chip once it's ready on the shelf....
And there are plenty of stock chips available from CPC (Rounders, ...) and third party (like Key West)....so it's not that imho.

The chip market is only interesting if bulk orders are made (like casino's do) and there is a periodic replacement of these chips.
Paulson had that market and even they are in troubles now....the casino clay chip market is declining at a rapid tempo.
CPC is a small player in a niche market, with increasing cost (labor intensive) and too low in volume and/or margin to invest in new machinery, colors, molds & automatisation.

So I guess I only see two options:
- find new investor(s) that take on this challenge because they love chips...
- find new investor(s) with very deep pockets that has a new market / USP and can turn current situation around

I don't see (big) casino's switching or start ordering at CPC anytime soon....and the private market is too small to build on.
Chips wise, Paulson is prefered by a majority of the chippers, only the customization & safety factor was a bonus at CPC
Due to NAGB's & TCR there is a steady supply of new and/or cheaper clay chips and that's where chippers eventualy will end up with.
Only for those with real budget constraints or huge player pools, Tina will be the end station.

And if someone should be worried, it's the current CPC set owners and vendors....the chance of ordering additional chips and add-on's will be a risky one once David and David pass the torch (quality, color discrepancy, obselete colors, molds, ...). Old timers still remember the Vegas era / debacle....

 

[doublebooyah85]

Tina hybrid over CPC? Can you explain why that is your preference? To me, there is no comparison on materials/quality. But, maybe variety of colors/edge spots and shorter leadtime is what sways you?

Color, lead time for sure, even molds now with Tangiers, and price

 

[elemeno]

Only for those with real budget constraints or huge player pools, Tina will be the end station.

+ value conscious buyers

 

[doublebooyah85]

Key West chips are on the shelf and available and a truly killer CPC chips set. Anyone could have by the end of the week if ordering right now.

Never a fan of those but that’s absolutely what he needed. More premade designs (something brighter imho).

 

[doublebooyah85]

I dont see CPC having a small market share...rather, they have the ENTIRE premium custom chip market for consumers.
If a small number customers go to Tina and that cripples CPC, that says to me the demand for CPCs was already declining.

Premium custom is what Gorbash and others myself have done. THC relabeling imho. Especially leaded. With the premium brand “Ferrari” THC logo.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Also the long lead time. Consumers want what they want now. When looking at the spending thousands potentially then being told it could be 6 months to year before you get it will push away even more people.

When I was buying my limit set I originally planned for it to be a CPC set, but a 6+ month lead time depressed me. I had it from BR Pro in less than 3 weeks.

Perhaps more in stock premade sets/racks will be something for the potential new owner to look into. Impulse buys are hard to make when you can’t get it the next day. In the world of same day delivery from Amazon and other online retailers long lead times are a sales killer.

1000%.

 

[Thomacetti]

+ value conscious buyers

They buy during TCR sales....the long term value vs Tina can not be overstated.

 

[upNdown]

Tina hybrid over CPC? Can you explain why that is your preference? To me, there is no comparison on materials/quality.

I would say the same thing too, except then I shuffle a stack of 43mm Greek mold hybrids and it isn’t so clear.
I prefer CPC 44mm scrolls over the tina hybrids, but it’s close enough that the 10x price difference is hard to ignore.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I would say the same thing too, except then I shuffle a stack of 43mm Greek mold hybrids and it isn’t so clear.
I prefer CPC 44mm scrolls over the tina hybrids, but it’s close enough that the 10x price difference is hard to ignore.

And 10x faster…

 

[Thomacetti]

1000%.

Mark my words....real clay chips, customization & short lead times wil NEVER fit the same sentence...or we are all willing to pay initial RPC prices when ordering.

And you can tell me much...but i'll never buy that any TINA chip (take any mold or version) is even remotely close to a real clay chip in feeling.

 

[elemeno]

They buy during TCR sales....the long term value vs Tina can not be overstated.

Pre-hybrids, you’re probably right.

I would say the same thing too, except then I shuffle a stack of 43mm Greek mold hybrids and it isn’t so clear.
I prefer CPC 44mm scrolls over the tina hybrids, but it’s close enough that the 10x price difference is hard to ignore.

But post hybrids, where the feel is much closer (see above), and you might find those that prefer custom chips at a reasonable price and nice colors to Jumers or poor-condition and frankly, nasty-looking Majestics.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Mark my words....clay chips, customization & short lead times wil NEVER fit the same sentence...or we are all willing to pay initial RPC prices when ordering.

We all agree on that. And that’s why Tina chips r killing the market. The customization and quick lead time has more value than clay to the market.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Another aspect. How much does brand recognition, brand loyalty, and this forum have to do with people ordering from CPC?

So much of market value price here is driven by social engineering/consensus. To those not on PCF, does the feel/sound/colors/customization of CPC really exceed so greatly that of others? What about these molds if you've not seen others produced on them, played with them, etc.? Idk how many other streams of revenue CPC has, but PCF drives the private/at home market. Good luck getting folks elsewhere to pony up the $.

 

[upNdown]

Premium custom is what Gorbash and others myself have done. THC relabeling imho. Especially leaded. With the premium brand “Ferrari” THC logo.

I need a Dude gif - that’s your opinion man.
I love THC leaded, but I would choose a handful of CPC molds over inlay replaced leaded THCs without a second thought. Maybe most of their molds.
There’s nothing premium to me about a chip that’s been murdered.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I need a Dude gif - that’s your opinion man.
I love THC leaded, but I would choose a handful of CPC molds over inlay replaced leaded THCs without a second thought. Maybe most of their molds.
There’s nothing premium to me about a chip that’s been murdered.

Absolutely opinion but also the majority opinion. And we are talking about custom chips? I could care less if the chip was murdered or produced with no inlay, it’s a custom inlay. And THC mold is majority no doubt the Ferrari logo. Or Porsche logo. It’s the #1 brand.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I need a Dude gif - that’s your opinion man.
I love THC leaded, but I would choose a handful of CPC molds over inlay replaced leaded THCs without a second thought. Maybe most of their molds.
There’s nothing premium to me about a chip that’s been murdered.

Continuing all the bad comparisons, in my mind it's like a customized ferrari/lambough/whatever vs a homebuilt hot rod.

Give me that murdered customized THC all day!

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

I need a Dude gif - that’s your opinion man.
I love THC leaded, but I would choose a handful of CPC molds over inlay replaced leaded THCs without a second thought. Maybe most of their molds.
There’s nothing premium to me about a chip that’s been murdered.

 

[doublebooyah85]

And I think summed up enough of my opinion and bashed enough.

Props to a USA product, made in USA, for a great customer base, and it is a great product. It’s totally a bummer.

 

[TheChipVault]

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

I’d prefer to keep my CPC customs over any other set I have on the shelf without hesitation.

 

[upNdown]

Absolutely opinion but also the majority opinion. And we are talking about custom chips? I could care less if the chip was murdered or produced with no inlay, it’s a custom inlay. And THC mold is majority no doubt the Ferrari logo. Or Porsche logo. It’s the #1 brand.

Relabels and inlay replaced chips have traditionally been called “semi-customs” here on pcf, though the term doesn’t seem to get used as much anymore. I guess it’s semantics and obviously I’m biased, but I wouldn’t call a chip a custom just because it has a custom label.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Relabels and inlay replaced chips have traditionally been called “semi-customs” here on pcf, though the term doesn’t seem to get used as much anymore. I guess it’s semantics and obviously I’m biased, but I wouldn’t call a chip a custom just because it has a custom label.

Very true! Good point.

 

[Thomacetti]

We all agree on that. And that’s why Tina chips r killing the market. The customization and quick lead time has more value than clay to the market.

Based on current facts...you are 100% correct.

But the 'flaw' of CPC lays within CPC and their market.....
Honestly....if current prices don't generate enough ROI to cover cost and plenty of profit to invest & pay owner/dividents then it's never ever going to happen.
I'm convinced their price structure is at it's peak.

It just shows me there is too much overhead / too little efficiency & volume in the current set-up because I don't think D&D became rich from CPC.

And let me be clear....I'm not suggesting that D&D did not do their best to create a viable business, nor that they are not capable to do so.

 

[doublebooyah85]

The Ewing mold is Triple Booyah as well. We r gonna see some awesome sets produced…the best news of this unfortunate event.

Stolen from @MegaTon44

That’s some Ford GT 40 shit!

 

[BarrieJ3]

I’d prefer to keep my CPC customs over any other set I have on the shelf without hesitation.

Not fair assessment. You have chips custom and otherwise that people would take over their whole collection.

 

[Thomacetti]

I need a Dude gif - that’s your opinion man.
I love THC leaded, but I would choose a handful of CPC molds over inlay replaced leaded THCs without a second thought. Maybe most of their molds.
There’s nothing premium to me about a chip that’s been murdered.

If this was the main POV of the current market, CPC could expand 4 times over and have a 5 year lead time....but they don't

 

[TheChipVault]

There is near zero margin in that business (possibly less than zero at times). The only way it continues is through someone that loves chips and doesn't care about a bottom line in the least bit. Sure... there are lots of ideas that could help them improve the margin but if you have to spend one hour or one $ away from making chips to double your net profit from 2% to 4% in reality it's a no gain. David is a very intelligent person. I would say it would be hard to find someone that loves all things casino chips more. He fully understands the market. He was the perfect fit for the seat and ASM / CPC continued under his watch. Good luck to finding a good buyer and better luck to that buyer to keep this going.

 

[PlaidDragon]

Exactly.

There’s go to be someone out there would look at the company and say, “This is a totally unique opportunity, and I can see a way to expand it / market it differently / make it more profitable / offer an actual, bright canary yellow.”

In fact I have one person in mind, who manufactures a totally different product, but one which has some similarities in terms of the precision needed. PM’d David.

Corrected.

 

[upNdown]

If this was the main POV of the current market, CPC could expand 4 times over and have a 5 year lead time....but they don't

Are you sure? Mine probably is a minority opinion but I’m not sure. If we’re talking about all the clay sets owned by PCFers, consider:

Unaltered clay chips
Custom clay chips
Inlay replaced or relabeled clay

Do you really think that inlay replaced or relabeled clay sets comprise a bigger percentage of PCF sets than either of those other two? I don’t really know, I never thought about it.