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Controversial Chip & Poker Opinions (16 Viewers)

I'm revisiting this earlier controversial opinion of mine because I'm feeling ornery tonight:

CrazyEddie said:
People make a big deal over "string bets" for no good reason. The classic movie-style declaration "I'll see you... and raise..." is neither ambiguous nor admitting of angle shooting, for anyone capable of hearing and understanding conversational inflections. It's obvious that the bettor's wager is still in progress and it's obvious when it's complete.

The hyperfine technicalities explicated in, for example, the TDA rules are a logistical necessity for handling large-scale operations with large numbers of essentially anonymous players and large numbers of dealers in order to keep irregularities to a minimum, and, so, accordingly, it's simply easier for casinos to require bettors to follow a more formally-structured betting style. But for a home game there's no compelling reason to follow their lead other than, as many members here do, that you simply prefer to be as formal as casinos.
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I'll see my "the rule against string betting is crap" and raise myself "all the other rules about placing bets are crap too".

Forward motion, single motion, betting line, releasing chips, cutting chips - it's all bullshit. The only betting rule needed for a civilized game of poker is this: "Your bet is whatever you verbalize, or whatever chips you've put in front of you when you're done putting chips in front you, whichever comes first."

"BUT EDDIE" I hear you say, "How can you tell when someone is done putting chips in front of them?"

I say that if you have problems figuring this out you shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects, let alone be allowed to play poker.

If it's absolutely necessary, it's pretty easy to enforce. The house/floor/host can start handing out penalties when people are being idiots and/or assholes. If someone takes for-fucking-ever to finish placing their bet, and keeps looking up to see if their opponent is reacting ("angle shooting" although it really isn't, it's just being a dumbass and hoping your opponent is an even bigger dumbass), slap 'em with a penalty, return their chips, and kill their hand. And on the other side of the coin, if someone jumps in and calls while the guy in front of them is obviously still counting out chips, slap 'em with a penalty, return their chips, and kill their hand. Do this a few times and people will get the point - stop being jerks and play nice with with the other people sitting around the table. Anyone who doesn't get it can GTFO.

As mentioned in my post above, I get it why casinos can't operate like this (any more... they used to, though). But home games can, and should. And I kinda think that maybe casinos and tournament directors should have stuck to doing it this way all along.

More rulesets should be written with language like "In such-and-such situation, do the clearly obvious thing. If you're not sure what that is, call the floor, and expect to get kicked out of the game."
 
CrazyEddie said:
I'm revisiting this earlier controversial opinion of mine because I'm feeling ornery tonight:



I'll see my "the rule against string betting is crap" and raise myself "all the other rules about placing bets are crap too".

Forward motion, single motion, betting line, releasing chips, cutting chips - it's all bullshit. The only betting rule needed for a civilized game of poker is this: "Your bet is whatever you verbalize, or whatever chips you've put in front of you when you're done putting chips in front you, whichever comes first."

"BUT EDDIE" I hear you say, "How can you tell when someone is done putting chips in front of them?"

I say that if you have problems figuring this out you shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects, let alone be allowed to play poker.

If it's absolutely necessary, it's pretty easy to enforce. The house/floor/host can start handing out penalties when people are being idiots and/or assholes. If someone takes for-fucking-ever to finish placing their bet, and keeps looking up to see if their opponent is reacting ("angle shooting" although it really isn't, it's just being a dumbass and hoping your opponent is an even bigger dumbass), slap 'em with a penalty, return their chips, and kill their hand. And on the other side of the coin, if someone jumps in and calls while the guy in front of them is obviously still counting out chips, slap 'em with a penalty, return their chips, and kill their hand. Do this a few times and people will get the point - stop being jerks and play nice with with the other people sitting around the table. Anyone who doesn't get it can GTFO.

As mentioned in my post above, I get it why casinos can't operate like this (any more... they used to, though). But home games can, and should. And I kinda think that maybe casinos and tournament directors should have stuck to doing it this way all along.

More rulesets should be written with language like "In such-and-such situation, do the clearly obvious thing. If you're not sure what that is, call the floor, and expect to get kicked out of the game."
Click to expand...
preach
 
CrazyEddie said:
I'm revisiting this earlier controversial opinion of mine because I'm feeling ornery tonight:



I'll see my "the rule against string betting is crap" and raise myself "all the other rules about placing bets are crap too".

Forward motion, single motion, betting line, releasing chips, cutting chips - it's all bullshit. The only betting rule needed for a civilized game of poker is this: "Your bet is whatever you verbalize, or whatever chips you've put in front of you when you're done putting chips in front you, whichever comes first."

"BUT EDDIE" I hear you say, "How can you tell when someone is done putting chips in front of them?"

I say that if you have problems figuring this out you shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects, let alone be allowed to play poker.

If it's absolutely necessary, it's pretty easy to enforce. The house/floor/host can start handing out penalties when people are being idiots and/or assholes. If someone takes for-fucking-ever to finish placing their bet, and keeps looking up to see if their opponent is reacting ("angle shooting" although it really isn't, it's just being a dumbass and hoping your opponent is an even bigger dumbass), slap 'em with a penalty, return their chips, and kill their hand. And on the other side of the coin, if someone jumps in and calls while the guy in front of them is obviously still counting out chips, slap 'em with a penalty, return their chips, and kill their hand. Do this a few times and people will get the point - stop being jerks and play nice with with the other people sitting around the table. Anyone who doesn't get it can GTFO.

As mentioned in my post above, I get it why casinos can't operate like this (any more... they used to, though). But home games can, and should. And I kinda think that maybe casinos and tournament directors should have stuck to doing it this way all along.

More rulesets should be written with language like "In such-and-such situation, do the clearly obvious thing. If you're not sure what that is, call the floor, and expect to get kicked out of the game."
Click to expand...
I had a guy call me out a few weeks ago in what has otherwise always been a very friendly game because supposedly I announced raise a fraction of a second after my single chip hit the felt, and he wanted it to be a call.
 
TX_Golf_N_Poker said:
I had a guy call me out a few weeks ago in what has otherwise always been a very friendly game because supposedly I announced raise a fraction of a second after my single chip hit the felt, and he wanted it to be a call.
Click to expand...
Let me know if you want me to have a little chat with him. :)
 
ekricket said:
So is any measurement of a wild animal/fish caught.
It’s food, fucking eat it.
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Brother...
il_340x270.3481869624_l2g7.jpg
 
If you can't say, "I'll see your ____ and raise you ____" then you shouldn't be able to say "all in" without pushing your chips in or call an "all in" without putting the exact amount of chips in.

Anyway, calling and then raising like they do in movies just makes sense, because then you know exactly how much the other person is raising you. If you bet $11,350, and the other person just says "$22,675," everyone has to sit there and do the math to figure out how much to call, whereas it's much easier if the person just says, "I'll see your $11,350 and raise you $11,325." Then you know you need to put in exactly $11,325 to call.
 
Raven888 said:
If you can't say, "I'll see your ____ and raise you ____" then you shouldn't be able to say "all in" without pushing your chips in or call an "all in" without putting the exact amount of chips in.

Anyway, calling and then raising like they do in movies just makes sense, because then you know exactly how much the other person is raising you. If you bet $11,350, and the other person just says "$22,675," everyone has to sit there and do the math to figure out how much to call, whereas it's much easier if the person just says, "I'll see your $11,350 and raise you $11,325." Then you know you need to put in exactly $11,325 to call.
Click to expand...

Lol so much no in this post.

Needing to push all your chips into the pot for every all in, especially in cash games, slows the game down too much.
 
Raven888 said:
If you can't say, "I'll see your ____ and raise you ____" then you shouldn't be able to say "all in" without pushing your chips in or call an "all in" without putting the exact amount of chips in.

Anyway, calling and then raising like they do in movies just makes sense, because then you know exactly how much the other person is raising you. If you bet $11,350, and the other person just says "$22,675," everyone has to sit there and do the math to figure out how much to call, whereas it's much easier if the person just says, "I'll see your $11,350 and raise you $11,325." Then you know you need to put in exactly $11,325 to call.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of cuckoo here, but that's what this thread is for! Although I would change the thread title to Unpopular instead of Controversial, think that works more.

ANYWAYS, for all the oldheads here who read this and think it's all bunk, I say this.

Every. Single. Home. Game. Someone raises $8. And then two players later this happens:

How much?
$8.
Raise 8?
No 8 total.
Okay.

I don't care if the table is all great players who pay attention with fast action. This happens continually every night all night.

So maybe we can't string bet and there's too many issues there. But can there please be some type of consistency/terminology? I have no idea if it's helpful, but for my raises I always say the term "All Day". I announce Raise, put my chips in, and state $70 Total or $70 All Day.

It just doesn't make sense to me when people say, Raise $15. Now everyone but the last better is potentially doing math or looking around the table if they weren't paying attention.
 
RichMahogany said:
Lol so much no in this post.

Needing to push all your chips into the pot for every all in, especially in cash games, slows the game down too much.
Click to expand...

That's the price you should have to pay if you want to bet all of your chips.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
It just doesn't make sense to me when people say, Raise $15. Now everyone but the last better is potentially doing math or looking around the table if they weren't paying attention.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying. I guess string bets are dumb if there's a bunch of people still in play, but heads up I don't see anything wrong with it and it should be allowed.
 
Raven888 said:
If you bet $11,350, and the other person just says "$22,675," everyone has to sit there and do the math to figure out how much to call, whereas it's much easier if the person just says, "I'll see your $11,350 and raise you $11,325." Then you know you need to put in exactly $11,325 to call.
Click to expand...
Not a legal raise.....
 
BarrieJ3 said:
There's a lot of cuckoo here, but that's what this thread is for! Although I would change the thread title to Unpopular instead of Controversial, think that works more.

ANYWAYS, for all the oldheads here who read this and think it's all bunk, I say this.

Every. Single. Home. Game. Someone raises $8. And then two players later this happens:

How much?
$8.
Raise 8?
No 8 total.
Okay.

I don't care if the table is all great players who pay attention with fast action. This happens continually every night all night.

So maybe we can't string bet and there's too many issues there. But can there please be some type of consistency/terminology? I have no idea if it's helpful, but for my raises I always say the term "All Day". I announce Raise, put my chips in, and state $70 Total or $70 All Day.

It just doesn't make sense to me when people say, Raise $15. Now everyone but the last better is potentially doing math or looking around the table if they weren't paying attention.
Click to expand...
If you said “$70 all day” I would have no idea what you meant. But that’s probably because I’m a middle-aged oldhead.
 
RichMahogany said:
Playing less hands just because you want to go all in makes no sense
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I didn't say play less hands. Play all the hands you want. I just want to see a big fat stack of chips in the middle of the table if you're going all in. Let's make it exciting.
 
Raven888 said:
LOL sez who? Bet whatever you want in my home games.
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I always say enforcement of consistent rules protects everyone from "fucky situations" that can pop up in poker. String betting is absolutely one of those that will eventually cause an issue.

That said, I do love actual controversial posts in this thread. We unfortunately got away from the ":mad:" after like Page 2.
 
upNdown said:
If you said “$70 all day” I would have no idea what you meant. But that’s probably because I’m a middle-aged oldhead.
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You’re very secretly one of the more entertaining people here. I love you. Please attend the continental ‘23 so I can watch you groan at my comments live :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
Raven888 said:
I didn't say play less hands. Play all the hands you want. I just want to see a big fat stack of chips in the middle of the table if you're going all in. Let's make it exciting.
Click to expand...

But you do end up playing less hands. More time is spent counting/matching stacks and sometimes chips fall over, making a mess, causing more time spent counting and restacking.

It there’s 2 obviously different stack sizes during an all in, the one chip rule is easier. If player A goes all in with a shorter stack, then Player b calls by throwing in one chip then proceeds to win the pot, then Player A can ship their stack without needing to put everything in the middle. Chips are collected/dispersed faster and on to the next hand
 
Oh, man, what have I done? Sounds like I hit an unpopular opinion gold mine.

Irish said:
Yikes, ok. Just an FYI, in case you ever decide to play anywhere else, standard poker rules dictate a raise should be at least the size of the previous bet. But sure dude, you do you for your home game
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Oh, I totally wouldn't try to bet like that in a casino or anything.... besides, I was just throwing out numbers to illustrate a point.
 
upNdown said:
If you said “$70 all day” I would have no idea what you meant.
Click to expand...
I completely forgot. I was thinking of where I picked up "All Day", and because every always seems to know what it means I thought I probably picked it up at a local game.

Even at the recent game, playing with someone I've only played with once, they said how much, I said $40 All Day, and they instinctively knew. Or maybe they thought that I was just being me and not answering :unsure:

Anyways it just hit me. It's a term that was used back in my serving days to mean all included. Like how many salads for table 7? 6 all day chef!
 
BarrieJ3 said:
So maybe we can't string bet and there's too many issues there. But can there please be some type of consistency/terminology? I have no idea if it's helpful, but for my raises I always say the term "All Day". I announce Raise, put my chips in, and state $70 Total or $70 All Day.
Click to expand...

The classic terms, I think, are "raise by" and "raise to". I think RRoP and/or TDA rulesets have officially codified that "raise" without saying anything else is to be interpreted as "raise to" but I can't be arsed to go look it up and confirm. But at any rate, that's become the standard consistent terminology now ("raise" means "raise to"), even if not everyone is on board with it yet.

BarrieJ3 said:
It's a term that was used back in my serving days to mean all included. Like how many salads for table 7? 6 all day chef!
Click to expand...

I knew what you meant! And I'm an old-head. :)

No idea where or when I picked it up, but yeah. A general-purpose term for distinguishing between an increment or sub-total and a total in situations where there could be some ambiguity - whether in the kitchen or at the poker table. Also good for purchases - "How much for the beer?" "Three-fifty all day, boss." i.e. tax is included.
 

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