The Lunar landing set is amazing too, not just as a chipper but I think the art is amazing on those.
Have we finally reached market saturation?? (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter BPTDirector
- Start date
This CPC topic could be it's own thread. I started the casino chip salvage model back in the 90's that TCR has used in the recent past. When I saw the demand for quality casino chips for the home game market back in the early 2000s and ran out of salvage sources, I went to ASM and produced the original Nevada Jacks clay chips as a standard retail offering. Jim Blanchard laughed at me and told me no one would buy them. I sold so many that he couldn't keep up with the demand and I had to move the mold to BCC and have them make them. There are things that can and should be done the CPC business model but I gave up on clay chip production long ago. In the end, these chips are sooooo very expensive to manufacture.
ChipMonster
Straight
I agree, it’s hard to compete with that. CPC is an artisan passion and not a volume play. I just got my custom CPC set this year and love them but still wish I had more sets (Paulson, CPC, etc.). Because moar chips, right?
I guess my point is that I don’t believe we are at market saturation but that it’s really just that options overall are limited. Choices are primarily 1) random Paulson’s that hit the market that are either in fairly rough shape or at astronomical prices and sometimes in odd quantities, 2) ceramic options easily obtainable but not for the connoisseur, and 3) CPC that require a lengthy design and build process that doesn’t always fit with people wanting to “buy it now” in this Amazon Prime culture. 4) Tigers that are not everyone’s taste, pricey and seemingly difficult to collect a set in certain colors (secondary $1..)
2 months ago and it still appears to be the case, even more so right now. Just look at posts and auctions. Wild, but awesome.
Saturday midday auctions probably shouldn’t qualify, just an awful time to end lol
But I do agree. Leaded RHC is a steal. And non leaded HSI secondary chips r some of my favorite going for great prices.
Right. Because you can actually say this about the hybrids:
(At least it’s arguable in terms of feel, look, sound, and handling.)
But let’s be real careful about saying “Tina chips” because that includes cards mold, which are far inferior to just about everything else on PCF.
Can? Likely.
Should? (This is all guesswork) Based on their wait times, one can only assume that they’re operating at or near maximum capacity. Could they sell more chips if they ran a second or third shift? I’d think so. Could they sell more chips if they bought more equipment? I don’t even know if that’s feasible.
But it seems to me like they’re happy with their business.
yeah.. what do I know
I was actually hoping you’d share more thoughts? I was just sharing my perspective - didn’t mean to come across in any kind of negative way on that one.
1) advertise
2) offer better existing sets. Custom ultimately delays the purchasing time window and it daunting for some
And plenty more
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It's just a hobby/side thing though right? Like ChipVault said, it's extremely difficult. So other than being able to keep the doors open and keep employed whoever they have, they aren't looking to somehow grow or climb it seems?
I can't find them via google. Would that even matter? SEO with amazing QRGs, FAQs, setup wizard build out process? I mean, who is going to find them and spend that kind of $?
It seems like their ideal customer profile is......PCFers. And any ICP that isn't a PCFer, I would imagine the value propisiton would be they were buying complete security, top of the line custom clay. But to do that takes customer education which is *the most difficult fricken thing* to do, so even if they were utilizing instagram, seo, etc., man just doesn't seem worth it unless pricing was like 3x higher than it is - and it's already extraordinarily high.
There’s a unique competitive advantage in being the only compressed clay public provider, but I don’t know how to leverage this in regards to individual consumers.
I just don't see a way this type of niche B2C could ever scale. Grow, sure, but no business in 2024 wants to grow with no scalability in sight.
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ASM used to own and operate it's internet presence @ the pokerchips.com domain. At the absolute height of keyword dominance for the google algorithm, Jim Blanchard sold pokerchips.com. That domain was aged and firmly placed for eternal dominance.
Kinda just breezed through a few of the latest replies and saw some comments regarding marketing for CPC. Ever since I got into the hobby that has always been in the back of my mind. Their website looks like it hasn't changed since the early 2000's. And a few years ago before I even dove in, I watched Adam Savage's video when he received his set of Rounders replicas and he mentioned that just by happen chance he came across ASM/CPC when he was looking for a company to replicate the chips and when they agreed to provide him a set, they did not want their name to be disclosed. Thought it was odd at the time, cause what company doesn't want their name out there for promotion? Especially when "Tested" had millions of subscribers already. I chalked it up to them being a movie prop company that didn't sell to public consumers.
I made another comment before about how I thought it was weird there is only one clay chip manufacturer and seemed like most people contended that there just isn't a market for it. I accepted it as an "agree to disagree" topic cause I think almost any niche can be marketed these days. There just seems to be something a little more secretive when it comes to these clay chips. My opinion, anyway.
As far as comparison between clays and tinas, to me, there shouldn't be. I came here to this forum trying to decide between CPC's or BRPros as my first set purchase. The Rounders set was the "premium" set I wanted and when I learned what Paulsons were I said no way I'm spending thousands on chips. Discovered what Tina's were shortly thereafter and started collecting inspiration photos/logos for my custom set. A few weeks after I joined I had CPC, Ceramics, Hybrids, & China Clay samples in possession, no paulsons. The CPC's alone made up my mind after alot of back and forth debating between budget and quality. Part of the reason why I joined and went looking for chips was chasing the feeling of playing with the BJ chips in Vegas for the first time in my life this past summer. I still really want a custom Tina set just for the personalization you get, but I know it won't get any play now that I have two clay sets.
Its a weird way to put it, but the Tina's get about 80%-90% there, yet at the same time, once theyre in your hands to manipulate, the difference is night and day in my opinion. BRPros feel like Pogs, China Clays feel like little vinyl discs, & Tinas to me are just a gram or two too light, not sharp enough, and still remind me of plastics. We'll all have different reasons why we would lean towards one offering vs the other, for me, I needed that authentic casino feel and my bank account is suffering for it, lol.
I made another comment before about how I thought it was weird there is only one clay chip manufacturer and seemed like most people contended that there just isn't a market for it. I accepted it as an "agree to disagree" topic cause I think almost any niche can be marketed these days. There just seems to be something a little more secretive when it comes to these clay chips. My opinion, anyway.
As far as comparison between clays and tinas, to me, there shouldn't be. I came here to this forum trying to decide between CPC's or BRPros as my first set purchase. The Rounders set was the "premium" set I wanted and when I learned what Paulsons were I said no way I'm spending thousands on chips. Discovered what Tina's were shortly thereafter and started collecting inspiration photos/logos for my custom set. A few weeks after I joined I had CPC, Ceramics, Hybrids, & China Clay samples in possession, no paulsons. The CPC's alone made up my mind after alot of back and forth debating between budget and quality. Part of the reason why I joined and went looking for chips was chasing the feeling of playing with the BJ chips in Vegas for the first time in my life this past summer. I still really want a custom Tina set just for the personalization you get, but I know it won't get any play now that I have two clay sets.
Its a weird way to put it, but the Tina's get about 80%-90% there, yet at the same time, once theyre in your hands to manipulate, the difference is night and day in my opinion. BRPros feel like Pogs, China Clays feel like little vinyl discs, & Tinas to me are just a gram or two too light, not sharp enough, and still remind me of plastics. We'll all have different reasons why we would lean towards one offering vs the other, for me, I needed that authentic casino feel and my bank account is suffering for it, lol.
elemeno
Two Pair
It’s sad, but CPCs are also near/at market saturation since the company needs more orders: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/update-on-upcoming-molds-orders-needed-etc.123449/
The recent TCR RHCs are now beating CPCs in price too.
I think CPCs biggest drawback is production time. It’s hard to shell out $3,000 plus on something and know it will be up to a year before you’ll see it. We live in a society that lives off instant gratification. 4 days to ship to me? Amazon has next day delivery…
elemeno
Two Pair
I think you’re both right. And if I’m buying clay chips at that price, I would prefer Paulsons for their feel/colors.
Oh wow, I missed that one. That's not good.
FWIW, I'd happily pay more for CPCs than RHCs - CPC has more than a few great molds, and I'm just not a fan of RHC.
Bingo. I'd own a CPC set right now if I could've gotten it in a month's time. I'd designed the chips and paid an artist, but my mold was more than 12 months out, and something else caught my eye.
Reminder* 2nd annual Vault Week/Month sale coming March 2025*
elemeno
Two Pair
I think we haven’t found the bottom yet.
New member check-ins seem slow https://www.pokerchipforum.com/forums/pcf-introductions-and-check-ins.7/
Still many leftovers from TCR’s Black Friday sale https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/black-friday-sale-2024.126037/
And most importantly, several known and normally patient flippers have capitulated and begun reducing prices/their profit margins
New member check-ins seem slow https://www.pokerchipforum.com/forums/pcf-introductions-and-check-ins.7/
Still many leftovers from TCR’s Black Friday sale https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/black-friday-sale-2024.126037/
And most importantly, several known and normally patient flippers have capitulated and begun reducing prices/their profit margins
Every year this gets brought up around this time. Christmas is clearly a lull for most collectible markets. Then by the time folks get their tax refunds and it’s sunny again outside it picks back up.
Great deals and gems to be had in these times as always
Great deals and gems to be had in these times as always
elemeno
Two Pair
Based on what? I would have thought Christmas bonuses and gifts would keep sales at least normal.
Edit: https://watchcharts.com/watches/brand_index/rolex
Despite the downtrend since its height in 1Q22, the Rolex Market Index has risen when comparing mid-November to mid-December values in 2022 and 2023. Not so in 2024 so far, but it would be interesting to see the next datapoint.
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jayfiggy
3 of a Kind
I guess I haven’t been around here that long, but it seems that the new member page has been bumping recently…
People are spending money on their children and friends, not chips, for the time being.
elemeno
Two Pair
Yeah, this could be right. See my edit above.
Kid_Eastwood
4 of a Kind
Exactly this.
If I'd be starting from zero right now with the knowledge I have right now about chips, I'd be ordering 2 "cheap" (level 3 max) CPC sets (one tournament and one cash). And it'd be it.
And while waiting, I'd order a SunFly set (hybrid and/or PolyClay).
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Who cares about prices and valuations? Plenty of other areas for that kind of thinking.
MrCatPants
Full House
Good stuff is vaulted or wants peak prices. Few want to pay peak prices.
Bad stuff is sitting. Alternatives like Tinas are available at a fraction of the cost.
Bad stuff is sitting. Alternatives like Tinas are available at a fraction of the cost.
BirdCage
Flush
Agree with this. People may be thinning the herd, but only letting the weaklings go. Occasional nice buys do pop up. Hoarders be hoarding.
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