Have we finally reached market saturation?? (6 Viewers)

[cpac54]

I agree 100%.

Demand plus scarcity equals a price point.

Though the scarcity of Paulson's and high-end plastics is still relevant, their demand has been declining (IMHO).

That there are so many excellent Tina designs and molds available; combined with that Tina durability and quality is fairly good means it's generally harder for someone like me to rationalize upgrading to something which costs 4-5x as much.

The questions I find myself asking are: Do I want a set of ultra-high-quality Paulson's, Abbiatis, or CPCs? Or, for the same cost, do I want 4-5 COMPLETE SETS of Tina chips? The answer to BOTH questions is a resounding "yes" for any true chipper. I myself am guilty there given I'm actively planning for my next CPC set, as well as just ordered another Tina set from Justin.

The point is that my interest in higher end chips and group buys for such has definitely declined with the availability of just about anything I want via Tinas.

I don't want Tinas, at any price point. Am I still a true chipper?

 

[PlaidDragon]

Maybe.

 

[BGinGA]

I already own casino Paulsons, which make me happy. If I went shopping for a new set, I’d definitely be looking at 43mm Tina hybrids, over mint RHCs, at their prices.

But if I owned no sets, I might spring for the RHCs, just to own the coolness of real clay, real casino chips. So maybe it’s not just about the beginners preferring cheap chips. Maybe some experienced chippers who have been there done that with Paulsons recognize the value in the Tina’s.

Early on, I went through slugged plastics, 9g plastics, ceramics, and china clays.... before discovering mint THC casino Paulsons, and selling off all the others which paled in comparison. The THCs had pretty bright colors, good feel/sound, with great play characteristics and were durable... but they could/can be pricey. But I've always bought what I liked best, irrelevant of what it cost.

Then along comes the hybrid ceramic chip, which also has all of those desirable traits (especially in the 43mm molded versions), plus with the option of full customization and at an unhead-of low price point.

I've since sold off more custom and casino clay chips, but am still buying custom molded hybrid ceramics. Had these been available long ago, I'm not sure I would have ever made the jump to THCs. Game-changers, imo.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Early on, I went through slugged plastics, 9g plastics, ceramics, and china clays.... before discovering mint THC casino Paulsons, and selling off all the others which paled in comparison. The THCs had pretty bright colors, good feel/sound, with great play characteristics and were durable... but they could/can be pricey. But I've always bought what I liked best, irrelevant of what it cost.

Then along comes the hybrid ceramic chip, which also has all of those desirable traits (especially in the 43mm molded versions), plus with the option of full customization and at an unhead-of low price point.

I've since sold off more custom and casino clay chips, but am still buying custom molded hybrid ceramics. Had these been available long ago, I'm not sure I would have ever made the jump to THCs. Game-changers, imo.

Royal Flush status stripped down to Two Pair.
Perma ban forthcoming.

 

[elemeno]

I just don’t see the Tina impact to the value of real Paulson’s especially THC’s.

I view them as separate and distinct market demographics. Those folks who are inclined to get real casino clay (RHC or THC) will end up there anyway. Tina just lowers the barrier to entry to chipping and might add an additional step that previously wasn’t as easily accessible.

I think the change in value is driven by the broader current economic environment and folks just not willing (or able) to pay what was arguably over inflated prices to begin with.

I think it’s possible that Tina chips will affect THC demand in the long term. See this:

Had these been available long ago, I'm not sure I would have ever made the jump to THCs. Game-changers, imo.

For @BGinGA it took the hybrids, but for others, cards mold could have been enough (especially if they didn’t have a point of comparison). Without new faces joining those that are willing to pay top dollar, that population will dwindle over time. Seems like it already has - @BarrieJ3 wrote that there are 20+ people in these ranks, but from what I’ve read, it feels like this number was much higher 2+ years ago.

Lastly, I contend that those paying premium prices for poker chips are generally less impacted by the current economic conditions. In fact, their net worth is likely at or near all-time highs.

 

[BamaT8ter]

Early on, I went through slugged plastics, 9g plastics, ceramics, and china clays.... before discovering mint THC casino Paulsons, and selling off all the others which paled in comparison. The THCs had pretty bright colors, good feel/sound, with great play characteristics and were durable... but they could/can be pricey. But I've always bought what I liked best, irrelevant of what it cost.

Then along comes the hybrid ceramic chip, which also has all of those desirable traits (especially in the 43mm molded versions), plus with the option of full customization and at an unhead-of low price point.

I've since sold off more custom and casino clay chips, but am still buying custom molded hybrid ceramics. Had these been available long ago, I'm not sure I would have ever made the jump to THCs. Game-changers, imo.

If you’re ever looking to part with your 4Qs set, I’ll buy you whatever Tina set you want!

 

[upNdown]

Royal Flush status stripped down to Two Pair.
Perma ban forthcoming.

No but that’s such useful feedback (and I bet if we scrolled back a couple of years, we wouldn’t see him say similar things about the cards molds.). The point is that when you’ve played with the best and then you play with these hybrids that look great, stack great, and feel great, it’s less about trying to justify the prices of the best and more about saying that the hybrids are a great product.

 

[chippitydoodah]

If Tina could make a slightly thicker chip with sharp flat edges (not the current bike tire shape) it's game over

 

[Rieguy]

If Tina could make a slightly thicker chip with sharp flat edges (not the current bike tire shape) it's game over

Nipples

 

[Lemonzest]

Then along comes the hybrid ceramic chip, which also has all of those desirable traits (especially in the 43mm molded versions), plus with the option of full customization and at an unhead-of low price point.

What manufacturers do you like best in reference to hybrid ceramic chips?

 

[Budha]

I think it’s possible that Tina chips will affect THC demand in the long term. See this:

To what degree is the question. Sure it could, but in any material way, I’m not sure. Maybe..? THC/TRK will always be the most collectible.

Seems like it already has - @BarrieJ3 wrote that there are 20+ people in these ranks, but from what I’ve read, it feels like this number was much higher 2+ years ago.

It’s the same people minus 1 for the most part - lol (plus a few new ones). They just aren’t spending as much and people aren’t selling as much. The incentive to sell is lower when prices are no longer inflated.

Lastly, I contend that those paying premium prices for poker chips are generally less impacted by the current economic conditions. In fact, their net worth is likely at or near all-time highs.

I think you might be surprised if you peeked behind the curtain. Yes, there are quite a few folks with deep pockets, but there are also a lot of folks who see what they want, buy it, and figure it out later.

In fact, their net worth is likely at or near all-time highs.

I think that period was 2 years ago. Things like insurance costs have ballooned out of control. In my area it’s up 3x over 2.5 years.

Peoples discretionary income to put toward luxury items is less then it was 2.5 years ago. The stock mkt and crypto aren’t going off the charts anymore, housing isn’t appreciating 20+% annually anymore, etc, etc.

 

[upNdown]

If Tina could make a slightly thicker chip with sharp flat edges (not the current bike tire shape) it's game over

Can you expand on those thoughts? It never occurred to me to want a thicker chip; I guess I like that they’re similar in thickness to a Paulson chip. Are you looking for more thickness for a weightier chip?
And I don’t understand the bike tire comment either. The only hybrids I have are the 43mm Greek key molds, but their edges are pretty flat to me. Not quite mint Paulsons (not that people love playing those in their mint, sharp edges condition) but a far cry from the beveled edges we see on chips like China clays.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

I think you might be surprised if you peeked behind the curtain. Yes, there are quite a few folks with deep pockets, but there are also a lot of folks who see what they want, buy it, and figure it out later.

Guilty as charged...

 

[doublebooyah85]

-double post retraction-

 

[doublebooyah85]

The new hybrid Tina chips r pretty awesome lol. If @JeepologyOffroad would have designed a set by now they would be flying off the shelves and I think @Cratty is already in the right direction with his color matching sample sets being produced. Congrats on the group buy success @justincarothers by all accounts that’s been a smashing success too. Give Tina chips another year and there should be a flow of bangers lol. After that…HOF worthy.

 

[Budha]

Guilty as charged...

Same - lol

 

[upNdown]

After that…HOF worthy.

That might be the changing of the guard. Because up to this point, I’m pretty sure there’s only been one ceramic set to ever achieve that status. But I look forward to it- let’s see what they’ve got!

 

[Lil Tuna]

I think you might be surprised if you peeked behind the curtain.

Most definitely!

there are also a lot of folks who see what they want, buy it, and figure it out later.

I’d venture to say the majority. Lots of maxed out credit cards and second mortgages for sure..

I think that period was 2 years ago. Things like insurance costs have ballooned out of control. In my area it’s up 3x over 2.5 years.

Peoples discretionary income to put toward luxury items is less then it was 2.5 years ago. The stock mkt and crypto aren’t going off the charts anymore, housing isn’t appreciating 20+% annually anymore, etc, etc.

Imagine another 4 years of this if people don’t get their heads out of their asses next month.

 

[ChipMonster]

Tina’s are easily accessible in many designs and in the exact quantities needed. Not everyone has the patience or desire to either wait for the right clay set to come onto the classifieds at the right price or piece a set together over time through multiple purchases with the potential of not ever completing their set.

 

[BGinGA]

What manufacturers do you like best in reference to hybrid ceramic chips?

The debossed 43mm hybrids (web and greek designs) produced by 'Tina' are the best options available so far, imo.

They exhibit good print quality on both chips and labels, offer vibrant ceramic dye-sub colors (six-color printers), have blanks with relatively square and matte-finish edges, have labels with non-glossy protective laminates, have decent quality control, and offer a very competitive price when purchased in bulk.

Sun-Fly's non-debossed 43mm hybrids with 25mm recess are also pretty good, but are only available with glossy rounded edges and glossy laminated labels. Matte-finish labels are available, but only unlaminated. Ceramic chip colors are also less vibrant in general. Although list prices are higher, their pricing is competitive when ordered in group buy bulk quantities.

The two main items that has swayed buyers to the Chinese hybrids are improved chip print colors and much cheaper custom debossed mold costs.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Tina’s are easily accessible in many designs and in the exact quantities needed. Not everyone has the patience or desire to either wait for the right clay set to come onto the classifieds at the right price or piece a set together over time through multiple purchases with the potential of not ever completing their set.

I just made a custom set for a friend, 2000 chips, I’ll have them in 45 days, and everyone is going to love them lol and they will look and feel great. Are they real clay? No, but I’m going to enjoy them almost as much lol

A bit depressing considering it’s taken years to accumulate and build sets…and not to mention the spend $$$

But bring on affordable awesome poker chips!

This is NOT an endorsement of knockoff replicates! That’s an entirely different topic…

 

[DrStrange]

It isn't "market saturation" to have a cheaper, new high quality vendor come along and take market share from vintage Paulsons. The oldest of us have seen this story before with Faux Clay and then when CiC chips faded in favor for Paulsons. The market for chips wasn't saturated then either. Showing me Tina chips are as good as vintage Paulson chips just means someone new decided to cater to our needs.

Show me that the supply for "fine" chips out strips demand if you want to make the case the market is saturated. That seems quite different from "Tina chips are as good as, if not better, than many Paulson options".

 

[ChipMonster]

I just made a custom set for a friend, 2000 chips, I’ll have them in 45 days, and everyone is going to love them lol and they will look and feel great. Are they real clay? No, but I’m going to enjoy them almost as much lol

A bit depressing considering it’s taken years to accumulate and build sets…and not to mention the spend $$$

But bring on affordable awesome poker chips!

This is NOT an endorsement of knockoff replicates! That’s an entirely different topic…

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I voted in your poll the other day! To be honest, I’ve never felt the Tina chips in real life but I’m tempted to get some just because of the great options available.

I’d be willing to bet that if CPC started broadening their offerings of off the rack sets that were ready to ship we’d be seeing a lot more from them. Rounders and Atlantic are not very appealing in my opinion (from both the colors/spots to the inlays themselves).

 

[doublebooyah85]

I voted in your poll the other day! To be honest, I’ve never felt the Tina chips in real life but I’m tempted to get some just because of the great options available.

I’d be willing to bet that if CPC started broadening their offerings of off the rack sets that were ready to ship we’d be seeing a lot more from them. Rounders and Atlantic are not very appealing in my opinion (from both the colors/spots to the inlays themselves).

They don’t advertise and they should be offering royalties to some of the banger sets created here on PCF. It’s wild.

 

[mipevi]

A bit depressing considering it’s taken years to accumulate and build sets…and not to mention the spend $$$

I guess that's true for the people who would have been satisfied with just a Tina set or two. But to me those chips are the fast food option (not a slight on them, I like fast food LOL). For the true connoisseur, the time and money spent on rarer and higher end stuff should be worth it, and for many the journey is just as enjoyable (if not more so) as the destination.

 

[Lil Tuna]

They don’t advertise and they should be offering royalties to some of the banger sets created here on PCF. It’s wild.

 

[Timmah]

They don’t advertise and they should be offering royalties to some of the banger sets created here on PCF. It’s wild.

I think even if they advertised, the average person isn’t, or can’t, shell out $2k-$5k for a set. Even with Paulsons. I’m not one with a lot of disposable income but I was determined for a Paulson set. It cost me almost $3k to make a RHC over label set. Tina makes custom sets more affordable. 1000 chips for under $600 all in.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I guess that's true for the people who would have been satisfied with just a Tina set of two. But to me those chips are the fast food option (not a slight on them, I like fast food LOL). For the true connoisseur, the time and money spent on rarer and higher end stuff should be worth it, and for many the journey is just as enjoyable (if not more so) as the destination.

Yes, but anyone that wanted custom chips for the last 15-20 years had serious hurdles. Wait time and cost w CPC or murder and inlay replace rhc chips will you spend months figuring out what’s even available.

And I don’t consider these hybrids ceramic. They do a phenomenal job of shuffling and sounded “like” minty paulsons.

 

[Winslow2918]

I consider myself lucky to get great deals on casino chips from PCF members. But i do think it should be stated that not many people have a nice set (Dunes of Arrakis or Starburst) created by members here which I think, in some ways, are nicer designs and more exclusive than many of the casino offerings.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I think even if they advertised, the average person isn’t, or can’t, shell out $2k-$5k for a set. Even with Paulsons. I’m not one with a lot of disposable income but I was determined for a Paulson set. It cost me almost $3k to make a RHC over label set. Tina makes custom sets more affordable. 1000 chips for under $600 all in.

Yeah it’s too late for CPC sadly. This should have been done the last 5 years tho.