Have we finally reached market saturation?? (6 Viewers)

[upNdown]

Can we just get WindWalker to release all of his chips back to the public and the market will correct itself............

Probably not, if he tries to sell them at the prices he paid for them.

 

[Thomacetti]

Hahaha

I don’t follow why it matters or correlates when I joined PCF saying I agree website traffic would be cool to know. Not the first time @ovo has shot across the bow lol

Ovo and Tuna are both sweet as pie...they are just messing with you

What, now we can even tease newbies anymore since we are surrounded... ?
Glad to have you on the board...and that goes for a lot of newer members, new members = more fun fish euh...

J/K...new members are the future of our community...and we veterans insist to see you all go the same path as us...

Broke as Fuck...but rich in clay and degen friends

 

[Taghkanic]

The government isn’t giving out any more free money for a couple of months yet.

I don’t know how much money you (or anyone else indulging in this luxury hobby) got from the gummint, but I got zilch and the people I know who qualified didn’t get enough to get a rack of vg THCs.

In other words: I don’t think pandemic funding made a noticeable dent on prices here.

Boredom might have.

 

[Taghkanic]

How fast things sell, in my experience, depends on:

1) How the chips are priced;

2) How choice the chips are;

3) How often those chips come up for sale.

If you’ve got nice chips, priced fairly, which haven’t come up for sale much lately, they still fly off the shelves.

P.S. I had an oldschool chipper reach out to me recently in response to a Wanted ad who countered my initial offer with a price *lower* than what I’d proposed. Yes, that stuff still sometimes happens.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Can we just get WindWalker to release all of his chips back to the public and the market will correct itself............

Would never happen and if it did, the same douchebags who took advantage of him from the beginning would just be stepping on top of each other to do the same thing again.

The combination of “Fuck You Money,” and “Douchebagery” created a situation that will most likely never reverse itself.

 

[ekricket]

Would never happen and if it did, the same douchebags who took advantage of him from the beginning would just be stepping on top of each other to do the same thing again.

The combination of “Fuck You Money,” and “Douchebagery” created a situation that will most likely never reverse itself.

Never is a mighty long time!
All those chips were locked up somewhere else before.
Until they meet the great shredder in the sky they are always going to come around. Just wait.

 

[FlushBlack]

Gonna have to agree with my mate Tuna here.
Only way we're going to see those chips again is if WW changes his mind on If Your On a Good Thing Stick To It.

 

[BPTDirector]

In Windwalker’s quest to have the penultimate collection he was able to pay obscene money for anything he wanted. Even if he does let go of any chips they will be way out of my price range.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Despite my personal distaste, always found the issues with WW as a chipper laughable. We see it here on a constant basis, someone wants something or needs to fill a gap, and overpays to get it done.

Every WTB of Looking For ad out there better be offering above market price, otherwise why are you posting?

The only part I am curious in and the reason I don’t think we will ever see chips again from serious collectors (idk if there’s one outside of WW) - don’t they monetize their collections?

As in, I now found, purchased, and own X# of one of a kind or limited quantity clay discs. Regardless of what I paid, I determine their value now, as I would only ever sell for $Y. Now I set the value as high as possible, have it insured for as high as possible, and now can borrow against that asset.

I might be completely 100% wrong as this is a total guess, but it’s hard to imagine anyone with accountants and a head for business/financials would let an asset like a high end collection sit somewhere without actively making money on it. I’m guessing it’s insured, borrowed against, and making money in markets.

 

[louBdub]

@Windwalker listed a tournament set for like $15K

I messaged him, I said $12K right now, and it’s sold.

He declined.

That’s where those chips will be, forever.

Gone.

 

[louBdub]

“Fuck You Money,”

 

[doublebooyah85]

Despite my personal distaste, always found the issues with WW as a chipper laughable. We see it here on a constant basis, someone wants something or needs to fill a gap, and overpays to get it done.

Every WTB of Looking For ad out there better be offering above market price, otherwise why are you posting?

The only part I am curious in and the reason I don’t think we will ever see chips again from serious collectors (idk if there’s one outside of WW) - don’t they monetize their collections?

As in, I now found, purchased, and own X# of one of a kind or limited quantity clay discs. Regardless of what I paid, I determine their value now, as I would only ever sell for $Y. Now I set the value as high as possible, have it insured for as high as possible, and now can borrow against that asset.

I might be completely 100% wrong as this is a total guess, but it’s hard to imagine anyone with accountants and a head for business/financials would let an asset like a high end collection sit somewhere without actively making money on it. I’m guessing it’s insured, borrowed against, and making money in markets.

it’s definitely insured but I don’t think it’s borrowed against. You’re betting on insane ROI on collector items (example but not remotely close) Mickey mantle card was sold for $100K in the 90s now worth $20M+. And most collectors his size have so much money in the market this is just fun/diversified.

 

[ekricket]

Is this where we make up stories about members that haven’t logged in in a while? I heard he’s leading a guerrilla force in Ukraine that is silently protecting a baby formula complex.

 

[ssanel54]

it’s definitely insured but I don’t think it’s borrowed against. You’re betting on insane ROI on collector items (example but not remotely close) Mickey mantle card was sold for $100K in the 90s now worth $20M+. And most collectors his size have so much money in the market this is just fun/diversified.

His collection is interesting in the sense that it consists mostly of large playable sets. If he was able to acquire all of the cocaine giraffes in existence, there is literally no one else looking to complete a playable set. Individually they don’t hold much value, as they are known to exist in quantity. So his best bet would be to sell a bunch of smaller sets, and create a competitive market

 

[BarrieJ3]

it’s definitely insured but I don’t think it’s borrowed against. You’re betting on insane ROI on collector items (example but not remotely close) Mickey mantle card was sold for $100K in the 90s now worth $20M+. And most collectors his size have so much money in the market this is just fun/diversified.

Yeah I figured this as well. Nothing to do with this particular individual, but in general money makes money - be it being educated on tax loopholes, leveraging debt, etc.

I would imagine this specific type of scenario depends on the collection value vs their net worth.

I don’t know how far someone can stretch the limits on valuation, but if I own every single Mickey mantle card, I can somewhat set the market cost. And if there was ever one that became available, it would behooves me to pick it up because that would just further increase the value of the rest I have.

Idk, lol just spitballing. I’m very uneducated in these departments and currently just now facing the needs of our family needing a tax person, an accountant, etc. With not being an expert in these areas, it feels overwhelming to find the right folks who can help out.

Hell, it’s like pulling teeth to get my grandma to properly set up her personal affairs so that we aren’t hit with an absolutely giant tax hit on her house.

 

[BarrieJ3]

His collection is interesting in the sense that it consists mostly of large playable sets. If he was able to acquire all of the cocaine giraffes in existence, there is literally no one else looking to complete a playable set. Individually they don’t hold much value, as they are known to exist in quantity. So his best bet would be to sell a bunch of smaller sets, and create a competitive market

Huh? Why? His best bet is to sell off chips so that there is a competitive market to increase the price and people seeking his remaining chips?

Lol one of us is completely off but I’m not sure who.

 

[LeGold]

In Windwalker’s quest to have the penultimate collection he was able to pay obscene money for anything he wanted. Even if he does let go of any chips they will be way out of my price range.

If you call his collection penultimate, I wonder which one would be considered as the ultimate one?

 

[BarrieJ3]

If you call his collection penultimate, I wonder which one would be considered as the ultimate one?

Don’t poke the bear. His first post in his own thread made as much sense as his original post.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Yeah I figured this as well. Nothing to do with this particular individual, but in general money makes money - be it being educated on tax loopholes, leveraging debt, etc.

I would imagine this specific type of scenario depends on the collection value vs their net worth.

I don’t know how far someone can stretch the limits on valuation, but if I own every single Mickey mantle card, I can somewhat set the market cost. And if there was ever one that became available, it would behooves me to pick it up because that would just further increase the value of the rest I have.

Idk, lol just spitballing. I’m very uneducated in these departments and currently just now facing the needs of our family needing a tax person, an accountant, etc. With not being an expert in these areas, it feels overwhelming to find the right folks who can help out.

Hell, it’s like pulling teeth to get my grandma to properly set up her personal affairs so that we aren’t hit with an absolutely giant tax hit on her house.

The big thing with collections/collector items is money laundering…

 

[theshepherd]

If you call his collection penultimate, I wonder which one would be considered as the ultimate one?

Was wondering the same thing!

 

[doublebooyah85]

If you call his collection penultimate, I wonder which one would be considered as the ultimate one?

I’m working on it bro. Sell me some lead.

 

[BarrieJ3]

The big thing with collections/collector items is money laundering…

Lol I mean “art”. Phew what a blatant and publicly known way of the wealthy moving money and illegal speculation.

It’s so widely allowed at this point, if you can afford to leverage money in this way, it almost begs the question, why not?

 

[Taghkanic]

… It’s hard to imagine anyone with accountants and a head for business/financials would let an asset like a high end collection sit somewhere without actively making money on it. I’m guessing it’s insured, borrowed against, and making money in markets.

Do people in suits who lend money really recognize poker chips as a valuable commodity which can serve as collateral / securitization for a loan?

Even with a stack of receipts, I can see that being viewed as a pretty speculative gamble at most banks. Even if the rest of us understand their worth.

Sadly, I tend to think someone with a massive and choice collection (if such a collector really ever wanted to sell) would realize more value by donating the whole shebang to a museum, then declaring the entire cost basis as a tax write-off.

… because simple supply-and-demand economics suggest that it would be very hard to sell a huge collection like that without flooding and exhausting the market, especially for any collection assembled at exceptional, top-dollar expense.

Even spread out over time, getting that many sets into the relatively tiny chip ecosystem would steadily drive prices down. Yes, we have maybe a dozen whales here who might pay big prices for a few choice sets, and a few off-site. But you’d need a dozen dozens of very well-heeled buyers to even make a dent.

Not to mention the massive PITA of shipping them out piecemeal. It would require hiring a couple of kids full-time for a year+, and training them in our recondite shipping rituals.

Another route might be to put a big collection up for auction at a single price, with a very high minimum at a major auction house, and hope there is some Saudi prince who loves poker. If it doesn’t sell, keep hoarding and try again later.

Not that the collector everyone has in mind has given any indication of wanting to sell more than a few spare pieces. We’re all just speculating.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Good feedback @Taghkanic

 

[aggie]

Is this where we make up stories about members that haven’t logged in in a while? I heard he’s leading a guerrilla force in Ukraine that is silently protecting a baby formula complex.

God speed, The Windwalker.

 

[upNdown]

Sadly, I tend to think someone with a massive and choice collection (if such a collector really ever wanted to sell) would realize more value by donating the whole shebang to a museum, then declaring the entire cost basis as a tax write-off.

… because simple supply-and-demand economics suggest that it would be very hard to sell a huge collection like that without flooding and exhausting the market, especially for any collection assembled at exceptional, top-dollar expense.

Even spread out over time, getting that many sets into the relatively tiny chip ecosystem would steadily drive prices down. Yes, we have maybe a dozen whales here who might pay big prices for a few choice sets, and a few off-site. But you’d need a dozen dozens of very well-heeled buyers to even make a dent.

Just to be clear, are we talking about all the fictional chips too (like the ones from the guy on the porch) or just the real ones?

 

[Taghkanic]

Just to be clear, are we talking about all the fictional chips too (like the ones from the guy on the porch) or just the real ones?

I don’t know much about the crypto chip market.

 

[aggie]

I’m gonna open a club called Full-Tilt Speculation.

You’re all invited.

VIP LIST.

 

[Tonysquander]

Despite my personal distaste, always found the issues with WW as a chipper laughable. We see it here on a constant basis, someone wants something or needs to fill a gap, and overpays to get it done.

Every WTB of Looking For ad out there better be offering above market price, otherwise why are you posting?

The only part I am curious in and the reason I don’t think we will ever see chips again from serious collectors (idk if there’s one outside of WW) - don’t they monetize their collections?

As in, I now found, purchased, and own X# of one of a kind or limited quantity clay discs. Regardless of what I paid, I determine their value now, as I would only ever sell for $Y. Now I set the value as high as possible, have it insured for as high as possible, and now can borrow against that asset.

I might be completely 100% wrong as this is a total guess, but it’s hard to imagine anyone with accountants and a head for business/financials would let an asset like a high end collection sit somewhere without actively making money on it. I’m guessing it’s insured, borrowed against, and making money in markets.

I think you are looking at it too narrowly, as is the OP. The "market" is not limited to PCF. It is the entire world. So the answer to the question posited by the OP is an unequivocal "no", the "market" is not saturated and never will be. Whether the PCFcentric market is saturated is a different question and even that market would need to be further broken down into specific categories with potentially different answers--NAGB, Tina, Old lead, RHC, casino, Matsui, ceramics, etc. Everyone has something different that rocks their boat.

As for WW, he is swimming in a different ocean than 99.8% of us. My recollection, from seeing prior posts from him, is that he educates people in his economic orbit, who have plenty of money to burn and may be interested in gambling and/or poker chips, about the historical significance and rarity of sets he puts together, and that he will sells chips to that level of buyer, for a very nice profit I presume. He also sells to us but I bet his biggest scores come from associates he meets either through gambling or business.

I know for sure I have seen a post from him some time ago where he said his goal was to be net zero on his chip collection expenditures and that he was very close to reaching that goal. The prices he paid for chips on here that make the average PCF'r gasp won't even cause a ripple to people who think nothing of spending $20k a month on landscaping for their home, has no idea what a gallon milk costs, has never even heard of PCF, have a 10-car garage and have no inclination to do the actual work of finding and putting together a historical grail set of poker chips. If you get that person's interest or curiosity, name your price, they usually just pay it without thinking twice.

Anyhow, my bet is that he now has a very high-end collection that is free and clear of its original acquisition cost. Perhaps that is why he is done with us for now. I don't know the guy, but that is as good a guess as any IMO.

 

[Taghkanic]

Mmm hmm