Have we finally reached market saturation?? (7 Viewers)

[Budha]

I might be completely 100% wrong as this is a total guess, but it’s hard to imagine anyone with accountants and a head for business/financials would let an asset like a high end collection sit somewhere without actively making money on it. I’m guessing it’s insured, borrowed against, and making money in markets.

You have account for the ego factor, which plays a huge role in these types of collections.

I have the biggest and the mostest…

 

[upNdown]

But rag on

I’m sure I will

 

[ekricket]

I’m sure I will

Lol that’s what I hear, lol

 

[Budha]

I know for sure I have seen a post from him some time ago where he said his goal was to be net zero

I also know for sure I’ve seen posts from him when taking heat for buying up all available chips in sight (particularly all the Bourbon Street $5’s that he knew others were looking for) that said he is committed 100% to sell back to the community for the same price or less.

Take it for what’s it worth - (nothing - lol)

 

[upNdown]

I also know for sure I’ve seen posts from him when taking heat for buying up all available chips in sight (particularly all the Bourbon Street $5’s that he knew others were looking for) that said he is committed 100% to sell back to the community for the same price or less.

Take it for what’s it worth - (nothing - lol)

Yeah but he bought those bastards for $1700 per rack!!!

 

[bernielomax]

@ovo 's. Not even a thought. If I had a choice of being gifted WW or ovo's entire collection (or even simply seeing it), I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

I’m gonna throw up in my mouth as I say it, but I’m pretty sure I’d go for windwalker’s. It took him 6 months to a year to actually learn about the chips he was buying, but once he did, his focus on what he considered to be the good stuff very much aligned with my tastes. From what I’ve seen, Ovo is less discriminating. He’s got some of the best, but he’s got plenty of other stuff too.

 

[Budha]

Yeah but he bought those bastards for $1700 per rack!!!

‘Course he did - lol.

 

[BPTDirector]

So sorry I started this thread. My thoughts really aren’t that deep guys, sorry if I was misinterpreted.

 

[aggie]

So sorry I started this thread. My thoughts really aren’t that deep guys, sorry if I was misinterpreted.

To the original post, it seems the poker chip market has become hourglass shaped.

The ultra high end stuff gets gobbled up in minutes (assuming it’s even listed publicly) and the 30 cents per chip market is absolutely booming. It’s that “middle” area where I think people are feeling the pinch. If it doesn’t stand out as genuinely special or wildly inexpensive, there’s a chance the chips are gonna stall.

I don’t see that going away anytime soon.

 

[BarrieJ3]

To the original post, it seems the poker chip market has become hourglass shaped.

The ultra high end stuff gets gobbled up in minutes (assuming it’s even listed publicly) and the 30 cents per chip market is absolutely booming. It’s that “middle” area where I think people are feeling the pinch. If it doesn’t stand out as genuinely special or wildly inexpensive, there’s a chance the chips are gonna stall.

I don’t see that going away anytime soon.

Can you do a comparison or your thoughts on Jacks and pricing vs Indiana Grands and pricing.

I’m baffled by the prices, specifically the difference in prices, between these two sets.

I’d venture a guess that the secondary market was simply crazier at the time Jacks releases, and prices never stabilized.

Or are the Jacks objectively better and that much more liked community wide than a set with workhorse claws, 8Vs, and awesome colors throughout?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

To the original post, it seems the poker chip market has become hourglass shaped.

The ultra high end stuff gets gobbled up in minutes (assuming it’s even listed publicly) and the 30 cents per chip market is absolutely booming. It’s that “middle” area where I think people are feeling the pinch. If it doesn’t stand out as genuinely special or wildly inexpensive, there’s a chance the chips are gonna stall.

I don’t see that going away anytime soon.

+1. Us low end junkies are swimming in it, Fiddler on the Roof style.

 

[MeridianFC]

He gave a lot of people a lot of stuff behind the scenes, helping them complete sets and sample sets. He didn’t publicize it, as his intentions I believe were to help people, not build himself up.
The other wouldn’t help you fill a dice chip sample. But rag on

It’s a story told elsewhere, but he did offer me a full rack of chips that I had originally owned for free. It was an incredibly generous offer, no matter his circumstance, and I politely declined since I wasn’t going to be able to put the setback together. still it was incredibly kind and generous..

 

[aggie]

Can you do a comparison or your thoughts on Jacks and pricing vs Indiana Grands and pricing.

No idea.

Anecdotally, though, I vividly remember a season where I was pining hard for some Jacks. They were actually one of the reasons I finally created a username. I never did own any (or maybe briefly), but I still hesitate when I see them listed — mostly because that itch never really got scratched.

IG in a way feel less “special” to me because I intentionally opted out of buying them. When I see them, it just reconfirms my decision, and I scroll right on by.

Maybe there’s some insight there?

Jacks, for whatever reason, still captivate new chippers — combined with prices having gone bananas at one point probably explains it.

 

[cpac54]

No idea.

Anecdotally, though, I vividly remember a season where I was pining hard for some Jacks. They were actually one of the reasons I finally created a username. I never did own any (or maybe briefly), but I still hesitate when I see them listed — mostly because that itch never really got scratched.

IG in a way feel less “special” to me because I intentionally opted out of buying them. When I see them, it just reconfirms my decision, and I scroll right on by.

Maybe there’s some insight there?

Jacks, for whatever reason, still captivate new chippers — combined with prices having gone bananas at one point probably explains it.

Personally, I think one of the biggest differences might be simply that the JACK Detroit chips were all uncirculated, primary and secondary. Every set was a near-mint set.

The IGs on the other hand, especially the more sought after chips, were primaries of varying condition. How many IG sets have we seen up for sale in near-uncirculated condition, really?

I was fortunate to end up with a set of IGs in as close to uncirculated condition as one could hope for, but it took cherry picking and a lot of cleaning and even then, the $25s were a real challenge.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Lol, everyone hating on WW for hoarding chips yet @ovo has more and is even more well known for not turning things loose.
At least @Windwalker had sales and giveaways and was very willing to trade.
Ovo is a black hole, you may as well grind your chips up, because you are never seeing them again. Pillar of the community.

I certainly don't hate on Windwalker. Ovo either for what it's worth. Yes, it's a little sad when chips are bought up and hidden away, but for all I know both collections get fair table time.

I may be opinionated here though, as I have more sets than I host games in a year. Still, They all come out when they are needed, and Liz and I have a long-running heads up series that utilizes every singe set, so they get some use. Just because photos aren't posted, we cannot assume they are buried in a closet or reduced to dust.

You just gotta be nice to people. Maybe they'll let you play with their chips too.

 

[ekricket]

I certainly don't hate on Windwalker. Ovo either for what it's worth. Yes, it's a little sad when chips are bought up and hidden away, but for all I know both collections get fair table time.

I may be opinionated here though, as I have more sets than I host games in a year. Still, They all come out when they are needed, and Liz and I have a long-running heads up series that utilizes every singe set, so they get some use. Just because photos aren't posted, we cannot assume they are buried in a closet or reduced to dust.

You just gotta be nice to people. Maybe they'll let you play with their chips too.

I’m not hating on either of them, it just seems like the public treats them differently for essentially the same behavior. Hard to understand. One difference I guess is that WW is perceived to have deeper pockets? Who knows how much anyone has?

Maybe he was not as patient as most and had the means to skip the line sometimes, but @Windwalker always seemed willing to help anyone out that asked or indicated they needed some assistance, and as it was pointed out earlier sometimes offering for free or for a greatly reduced price that was more in line with normal expectations and less in line with what he paid.

You didn’t have to suck up to him or be extra nice and careful - you just had to be respectful, which isn’t much to ask.

You just have to respect where people are coming from sometimes. Stereotypes (or monotypes for that matter) aren’t always accurate.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I’m not hating on either of them, it just seems like the public treats them differently for essentially the same behavior. Hard to understand. One difference I guess is that WW is perceived to have deeper pockets? Who knows how much anyone has?

Maybe he was not as patient as most and had the means to skip the line sometimes, but @Windwalker always seemed willing to help anyone out that asked or indicated they needed some assistance, and as it was pointed out earlier sometimes offering for free or for a greatly reduced price that was more in line with normal expectations and less in line with what he paid.

You didn’t have to suck up to him or be extra nice and careful - you just had to be respectful, which isn’t much to ask.

You just have to respect where people are coming from sometimes. Stereotypes (or monotypes for that matter) aren’t always accurate.

The guy occasionally helped out some chippers he liked.

As is true with everyone individual chipper, clique, and group, the experience is completely subjective.

I think most would agree the above statement is objective and unarguable.

That being said, funnily enough, I would 100% agree with you. He’s the only chipper I’ve engaged with to date (meetups, sales, etc.) who demanded absolute respect in order to engage with. Which is completely up to him, but not something I’d paint in a positive light.

I guess at least y’all knew who your daddy was.

 

[ekricket]

The guy occasionally helped out some chippers he liked.

As is true with everyone individual chipper, clique, and group, the experience is completely subjective.

Funny though, I would 100% agree with you. He’s the only chipper I’ve engaged with to date (meetups, sales, etc.) who demanded absolute respect in order to engage with. Which is completely up to him, but not something I’d paint in a positive light.

I guess at least y’all knew who your daddy was.

Haha you’ve met me once. And if you had an ounce of respect for anyone besides your little clique (you know, the one you were bragging on earlier) you would know I have no daddy. There’s no one on this earth I kowtow to for any reason except my wife.
With me you get what you give. You give me respect I’ll respect you and your terms. You diss me like a five year old in a public school and you can shove that shit right up your ass.

 

[BPTDirector]

Really sad that this turned into a Windwalker trash thread of sorts. I did not mean to bash him, I look at data and he consistently paid top dollar for the chips he bought and good for him. I was somewhat jealous really but never a hater. I am being truthful in saying if he sold for the price he paid it would be way out of my league.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Haha you’ve met me once. And if you had an ounce of respect for anyone besides your little clique (you know, the one you were bragging on earlier) you would know I have no daddy. There’s no one on this earth I kowtow to for any reason except my wife.
With me you get what you give. You give me respect I’ll respect you and your terms. You diss me like a five year old in a public school and you can shove that shit right up your ass.

Who is my clique? The non US folks I connected with, my local players, the various custom creators I follow, my fellow custom sample collectors I always tag, my fav chip designers? I wouldn’t say my clique is little nor would I say I only respect them - that is a personal subjective take of yours and one that you’ve not always held.

Also no idea why this about you and how you treat people.

My comment was - you built a monologue to say a chipper was nice to his friends. And I agreed, you needed to respect him in order to deal with him.

If that sticks in your craw, whelp, sorry? I’m great at making friends today!

 

[upNdown]

I am being truthful in saying if he sold for the price he paid it would be way out of my league.

But that’s my biggest complaint about him. He literally paid 2x-3x market rates for most of the stuff he bought. I guess if you were a seller in those days it was nice for you. But his shopping spree just served to raise the prices for all of us.

 

[aaron2786]

Who is my clique? The non US folks I connected with, my local players, the various custom creators I follow, my fellow custom sample collectors I always tag, my fav chip designers? I wouldn’t say my clique is little nor would I say I only respect them - that is a personal subjective take of yours and one that you’ve not always held.

Also no idea why this about you and how you treat people.

My comment was - you built a monologue to say a chipper was nice to his friends. And I agreed, you needed to respect him in order to deal with him.

If that sticks in your craw, whelp, sorry? I’m great at making friends today!

Am I your friend Barrie?

 

[chicubs1988]

 

[ekricket]

Who is my clique? The non US folks I connected with, my local players, the various custom creators I follow, my fellow custom sample collectors I always tag, my fav chip designers? I wouldn’t say my clique is little nor would I say I only respect them - that is a personal subjective take of yours and one that you’ve not always held.

Also no idea why this about you and how you treat people.

My comment was - you built a monologue to say a chipper was nice to his friends. And I agreed, you needed to respect him in order to deal with him.

If that sticks in your craw, whelp, sorry? I’m great at making friends today!

I have absolutely no idea about anybody’s relationship with Krish. I don’t know if he treated his “friends” any different than his mortal enemies. He is a guy I know from meeting at a couple of meetups, we are friendly yet I wouldn’t call him a “friend” that I expected any kind of friend benefits from.
Yet a couple of times I expressed interest in some of his sales, and he dropped his price to a reasonable number because he recognized that he overpaid and that wasn’t a reason to make me overpay. Other people, who may or may not be his friends, I have no idea, seem to have had positive interactions with him.

You are the one that seems to assume that people had to suck up or kiss ass to get any chips from him. This is an assumption on your part with absolutely no evidence to back it up except your own predisposed opinions based on your interpretation of events you have no data on.

You are the one making this a bashing session because of prejudice and ignorance. Just quit and be respectful and maybe you can make some friends today. Calling people names, insinuating shit about other people you know nothing about, all those thing endear you to someone I’m sure, but not anyone who has respect for others.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Really sad that this turned into a Windwalker trash thread of sorts. I did not mean to bash him, I look at data and he consistently paid top dollar for the chips he bought and good for him. I was somewhat jealous really but never a hater. I am being truthful in saying if he sold for the price he paid it would be way out of my league.

Seemingly the only WW conversations here had to do with his effect on your topic (if any), a separate topic on collections in general and their potential ability as collateral, and people (PZ, myself, etc.) literally saying they aren’t hating on WW.

As I said, experience is subjective and one persons experience does not limit or change another persons. I think the conversation about a WW type and Ovo type is healthy discourse - what are the positives and negatives that these chippers bring - and how different or similar are they? I think it’s fascinating as I personally would see their general effect as the exact same yet people tend to really like/dislike one or the other.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I have absolutely no idea about anybody’s relationship with Krish. I don’t know if he treated his “friends” any different than his mortal enemies. He is a guy I know from meeting at a couple of meetups, we are friendly yet I wouldn’t call him a “friend” that I expected any kind of friend benefits from.
Yet a couple of times I expressed interest in some of his sales, and he dropped his price to a reasonable number because he recognized that he overpaid and that wasn’t a reason to make me overpay. Other people, who may or may not be his friends, I have no idea, seem to have had positive interactions with him.

Your experience.

You are the one that seems to assume that people had to suck up or kiss ass to get any chips from him. This is an assumption on your part with absolutely no evidence to back it up except your own predisposed opinions based on your interpretation of events you have no data on.

Don’t recall me saying this once. What I did do was agree with you that you needed to respect him for him to engage with you. If you want to take leaps and bounds from that, fine, but don’t put words in my mouth. Feel free to quote and showcase evidence though!

You are the one making this a bashing session because of prejudice and ignorance. Just quit and be respectful and maybe you can make some friends today. Calling people names, insinuating shit about other people you know nothing about, all those thing endear you to someone I’m sure, but not anyone who has respect for others.

Hmm, yet you can’t quote a negative I’ve said about WW in this exchange.

In fact, I’ve gone as far to explicitly state when something I was saying was subjective. And even in that said others experiences might be different.

The great thing is, it’s all there. Go ahead, pull out where I repeatedly bashed him. All I did was simply state that you wrote a monologue to him helping chippers and that he demanded respect.

I’m gonna move on, because you’re just making stuff up at this point. As I repeatedly stated, I have no issue with WW at all and don’t know him personally.

Best of luck to you and yours. Im sure you’ll find another thread to rant on or maybe daddy will be back soon if tagged enough.

Peace and love!

 

[ekricket]

Your experience.

Don’t recall me saying this once. What I did do was agree with you that you needed to respect him for him to engage with you. If you want to take leaps and bounds from that, fine, but don’t put words in my mouth. Feel free to quote and showcase evidence though!

Hmm, yet you can’t quote a negative I’ve said about WW in this exchange.

In fact, I’ve gone as far to explicitly state when something I was saying was subjective. And even in that said others experiences might be different.

The great thing is, it’s all there. Go ahead, pull out where I repeatedly bashed him. All I did was simply state that you wrote a monologue to him helping chippers and that he demanded respect.

I’m gonna move on, because you’re just making stuff up at this point. As I repeatedly stated, I have no issue with WW at all and don’t know him personally.

Best of luck to you and yours. Im sure you’ll find another thread to rant on or maybe daddy will be back soon if tagged enough.

Peace and love!

View attachment 1104740

Ok thanks, you can go now, you’re dismissed.

 

[chipinla]

Who is my clique? The non US folks I connected with, my local players, the various custom creators I follow, my fellow custom sample collectors I always tag, my fav chip designers? I wouldn’t say my clique is little nor would I say I only respect them - that is a personal subjective take of yours and one that you’ve not always held.

Also no idea why this about you and how you treat people.

My comment was - you built a monologue to say a chipper was nice to his friends. And I agreed, you needed to respect him in order to deal with him.

If that sticks in your craw, whelp, sorry? I’m great at making friends today!

I think he’s talking about Raiders fans… JK!

 

[Rooster410]

Reading this thread after buying my first set of Paulsons… lol

Live and learn I guess.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

Classifieds are full of nice chips for sale, Jim lowers some prices during a sale to move chips. It’s never been tougher to sell chips on the secondary market. Like the title says, are we at market saturation point??