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Home game tipping (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Taghkanic
- Start date
OP
OP
I again would be very surprised if my group went for an hourly or upfront fee. Even though it might save them money, players are funny about anything compulsory like that.
The bomb pot idea might work though.
The bomb pot idea might work though.
Since getting Shuffle Techs and moving to a round table we no longer use a dedicated dealer at all. We still get a lot more hands in and the round table makes it easy for everyone to deal.
OP
OP
I used to host without a dealer. I didn’t find that shuffling was a big time waster, since we use two decks. (The quality of the shuffles were another matter.)
The bigger slowdown was the inexpertness of the deals, especially from people in seats where the cards have to travel farther. Lots of flipped cards, cards needing to get pushed along when no one was paying attention, etc. And more errors requiring rulings.
So I could see how a round table could greatly improve a dealerless game. Thing is, I bought a Gorilla superelliptical last year…
I will not go back to oval tables, I still have two 8 person oval, which aren’t too bad to deal from the ends, but they are for the rare tournament or when I decide to have a meetup eventually. It is a world of difference dealing and socializing on a round table.
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I'm not a fan of dealers at home games. If it's a non professional, generally they don't take it seriously and there's more issues/overturned cards/misreads of the board then if we didn't have one at all. I haven't played a home game while having professional dealers, and I'm sure I'd love it, but to me I'm guessing it would take away from the home game feel for me as well as my willingness to chat/joke about the same things we do now in front of a stranger.
I'm an even greater nonfan of tipping dealers at home games - actually tipping at poker in general. I'm someone who tips everywhere - everyone of those stupid little screens, every single time I do takeout, hell I'll just randomly tip people to say thanks in 100% non tip scenarios. Maybe it's my lack of poker historically, but I don't remotely understand why I would tip a dealer when I win. As a thank you? Then why don't we all tip regardless? It just makes 0 sense to me.
On top of all of that, from my personal experiences thus far at others' homes it's just downright awkward. Most times I've seen it, it's been a not great dealer with most people not tipping and the host repeatedly saying "dont forget to tip". Doesn't make for a warm environment and then you're left on hands where you win going....do I need to make up for others not tipping?
If I'm hosting and having a dealer - I'll take care of them. Don't worry about it.
The next game I show up where the host has a dealer - Dependent on stakes and how long we're playing, I'm tossing $20/$40/$60/$80 whatever at the start of the game in cash, or out of my stack at the end.
Anything else just seems silly to me. Might as well be handing out chips every time someone wins a hand and then at the end everyone pays $1-3 per win chip that they have.
I'm an even greater nonfan of tipping dealers at home games - actually tipping at poker in general. I'm someone who tips everywhere - everyone of those stupid little screens, every single time I do takeout, hell I'll just randomly tip people to say thanks in 100% non tip scenarios. Maybe it's my lack of poker historically, but I don't remotely understand why I would tip a dealer when I win. As a thank you? Then why don't we all tip regardless? It just makes 0 sense to me.
On top of all of that, from my personal experiences thus far at others' homes it's just downright awkward. Most times I've seen it, it's been a not great dealer with most people not tipping and the host repeatedly saying "dont forget to tip". Doesn't make for a warm environment and then you're left on hands where you win going....do I need to make up for others not tipping?
If I'm hosting and having a dealer - I'll take care of them. Don't worry about it.
The next game I show up where the host has a dealer - Dependent on stakes and how long we're playing, I'm tossing $20/$40/$60/$80 whatever at the start of the game in cash, or out of my stack at the end.
Anything else just seems silly to me. Might as well be handing out chips every time someone wins a hand and then at the end everyone pays $1-3 per win chip that they have.
OP
OP
People tip because the dealer is providing services they value.
Such as getting more hands in, keeping the action moving, making change, shuffling, helping enforce rules in a politic way, and not making the kinds of errors that amateurs make all the time.
They are working, and it’s a demanding task. I talk with my guy the day after every game to compare notes on anything we need to improve or clamp down on (for example, the inevitable temptation for players to discuss the action inappropriately in multiway hands).
My dealer is very personable (without being annoying as some overly-chatty dealers can be). He’s very much part of the group now. Helps that he also is a game host himself so he knows what kinds of things I deal with as such.
Obviously if a dealer is no good at the job there’s no point to having one.
But I am so glad I made this switch. The games are much more relaxed and fun without players having to worry about the mechanics of the game.
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I can see that part, but why is it that only winners/winning hands tip out then? That's the strange part to me, that it's not an hourly or whole night type of thing.
Everything else, YES. Lol I should note that I'm jumping into a conversation with you and Rhodeman, both of whom I think run more longstanding, mature games. My personal experience hasn't quite been that so that's obviously why I'm a bit put off.
But a dealer that can keep everything flowing while maintaining "one of the guys/girls" relationship I can see being a pretty great boon.
OP
OP
It’s something which gets spread around over the course of a night, and even moreso over multiple games for regs.
It also helps keep losing players around if tips come somewhat more overall from winners than losers.
P.S. As noted (very briefly) a while back, a few players prefer to do some or most of their tipping at cashout. That’s always an option if any players want to do it that way. Most of mine tip as they win hands, but also round off their cashouts to the nearest $10 or $20 which provides a small end-of-night bump. And makes my change-making a lot easier.
Statesvegas
Flush
I would not be in favor of hiring/paying a dealer at a home game with one exception: My youngest son took a real interest in my game when he was a young teenager, and he would hang around and watch us play for HOURS at a time. He is a smart kid and a good kid, and everybody likes him. He was paying attention to the games and the rules and asked appropriate questions and at one point I inquired with my group if they would be ok with him dealing for us. There was no objection (likely because it was my house....), and he ended up dealing for our game every other week for tips for almost a year. I cannot recall a single misdeal.I'm not a fan of dealers at home games. If it's a non professional, generally they don't take it seriously and there's more issues/overturned cards/misreads of the board then if we didn't have one at all. I haven't played a home game while having professional dealers, and I'm sure I'd love it, but to me I'm guessing it would take away from the home game feel for me as well as my willingness to chat/joke about the same things we do now in front of a stranger.
I'm an even greater nonfan of tipping dealers at home games - actually tipping at poker in general. I'm someone who tips everywhere - everyone of those stupid little screens, every single time I do takeout, hell I'll just randomly tip people to say thanks in 100% non tip scenarios. Maybe it's my lack of poker historically, but I don't remotely understand why I would tip a dealer when I win. As a thank you? Then why don't we all tip regardless? It just makes 0 sense to me.
On top of all of that, from my personal experiences thus far at others' homes it's just downright awkward. Most times I've seen it, it's been a not great dealer with most people not tipping and the host repeatedly saying "dont forget to tip". Doesn't make for a warm environment and then you're left on hands where you win going....do I need to make up for others not tipping?
If I'm hosting and having a dealer - I'll take care of them. Don't worry about it.
The next game I show up where the host has a dealer - Dependent on stakes and how long we're playing, I'm tossing $20/$40/$60/$80 whatever at the start of the game in cash, or out of my stack at the end.
Anything else just seems silly to me. Might as well be handing out chips every time someone wins a hand and then at the end everyone pays $1-3 per win chip that they have.
Anyway, he would make roughly $100 a night at a .25/.50 game because he was a kid who did a good job and fit in well, and who doesn't want to tip a kid when he gives you the river card you desperately needed? There were some nights where he made more than that. Not every hand was tipped, but any pot of significance usually earned him something.
My kid doesn't deal for us anymore, as he isn't a kid anymore and he is one of the better players in my group. He built a significant bankroll from his tips, and he has nurtured and grown it since graduating to player. He learned a LOT by being a dealer, mostly about the individual players and their tendencies.
If anyone else in my group had a responsible kid who could perform dealer duties, they would be welcome to deal for us for tips.
Best decision I've ever made as a host/organizer was changing to paid dedicated dealers for tournaments. *
They are paid a flat hourly wage, funded by a dealer fee paid by players at tourney registration. Typically, additional funds for the dealers can also be purchased by buying starting stack bonus chips. Direct tips are not expected, but are certainly appreciated when the tourney finalists at the end of the night pitch an extra $10 or $20 to the dealer out of their winnings.
* Especially since prior to doing so, I was dealing every. frickin. hand.
Dedicated dealers make everything run so much more smoothly and error-free. And it's hard work -- I don't expect them to do it for free.
They are paid a flat hourly wage, funded by a dealer fee paid by players at tourney registration. Typically, additional funds for the dealers can also be purchased by buying starting stack bonus chips. Direct tips are not expected, but are certainly appreciated when the tourney finalists at the end of the night pitch an extra $10 or $20 to the dealer out of their winnings.
* Especially since prior to doing so, I was dealing every. frickin. hand.
Dedicated dealers make everything run so much more smoothly and error-free. And it's hard work -- I don't expect them to do it for free.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
That's why I like the back-end fee. Nobody is "losing" money. Winners only win less, felted players play for free, and players that "break even" are only paying for an evening of fun.
This is the bomb.I'm not a fan of dealers at home games. If it's a non professional, generally they don't take it seriously and there's more issues/overturned cards/misreads of the board then if we didn't have one at all. I haven't played a home game while having professional dealers, and I'm sure I'd love it, but to me I'm guessing it would take away from the home game feel for me as well as my willingness to chat/joke about the same things we do now in front of a stranger.
I'm an even greater nonfan of tipping dealers at home games - actually tipping at poker in general. I'm someone who tips everywhere - everyone of those stupid little screens, every single time I do takeout, hell I'll just randomly tip people to say thanks in 100% non tip scenarios. Maybe it's my lack of poker historically, but I don't remotely understand why I would tip a dealer when I win. As a thank you? Then why don't we all tip regardless? It just makes 0 sense to me.
On top of all of that, from my personal experiences thus far at others' homes it's just downright awkward. Most times I've seen it, it's been a not great dealer with most people not tipping and the host repeatedly saying "dont forget to tip". Doesn't make for a warm environment and then you're left on hands where you win going....do I need to make up for others not tipping?
If I'm hosting and having a dealer - I'll take care of them. Don't worry about it.
The next game I show up where the host has a dealer - Dependent on stakes and how long we're playing, I'm tossing $20/$40/$60/$80 whatever at the start of the game in cash, or out of my stack at the end.
Anything else just seems silly to me. Might as well be handing out chips every time someone wins a hand and then at the end everyone pays $1-3 per win chip that they have.
Either pay the dealers yourself or don't. I don't expect players to pay for my chips, tables, cards, cleaning fees, or even my booze. Hosting is expensive! Eat it or get out! Tournament dealing is basically tip-free. There's @BGinGA's up tournament fee (which is not only acceptable, but common with things like food if served before/during the tournament), so if you need to cover your dealer's expense, take it out post game, when people get their money.
merkong
Full House
Hire a guy.
merkong
Full House
Hire a guy
OP
OP
One thing I’ve noticed since getting a dealer—a very good dealer, and a personable one…
The total cashouts for players have gone up substantially, as much as +50%, above and beyond what the dealer is getting tipped.
This actually makes a lot of sense. The dealer’s efficiency is causing us to get a lot more hands in. (Note: We players really suck at dealing. So the difference in total hands per night is substantial.)
This means much more action over the course of a 7-9 hour game. More topoffs, more rebuys.
And that compounds as the night wears on: The bigger the other stacks, the more people rebuy for the max (instead of an initial min or medium buyin).
So even as the dealer is starting to do much better in tips than I’d ever pay in a flat fee, there is more money to be made in the game. Also more to be lost.
The total cashouts for players have gone up substantially, as much as +50%, above and beyond what the dealer is getting tipped.
This actually makes a lot of sense. The dealer’s efficiency is causing us to get a lot more hands in. (Note: We players really suck at dealing. So the difference in total hands per night is substantial.)
This means much more action over the course of a 7-9 hour game. More topoffs, more rebuys.
And that compounds as the night wears on: The bigger the other stacks, the more people rebuy for the max (instead of an initial min or medium buyin).
So even as the dealer is starting to do much better in tips than I’d ever pay in a flat fee, there is more money to be made in the game. Also more to be lost.
I played a few $1/1 games at a PCFer’s house. His dealer would rake a buck out of every pot that saw a flop. That seemed right to me, to supplement the tips. I don’t mind tipping at all, but it can be tough to tip after small pots at lower stakes.
OP
OP
I’d just add… Due to a debate about having a dealer (from someone else’s home game, not mine), I’ve thought a lot about the topic recently.
Both this other game and mine are effectively 8max: 8 players plus a dealer. Nine people fit comfortably at these tables.
I think of the dealer in both of these games in effect like a player whose results are uniquely capped.
S/he will pretty much never make less than one min buyin (60BB) and also never more than one max buyin (200BB).
These are much like the results of your typical rock or super-nit: They don’t give away any real $$$, but they also never have a big score.
I suspect that few of us except total Knish-style grinders would take that deal as ordinary players. It would be nice to be able to avoid all losses, but not much fun to never book a huge win.
On top of that, unlike the other 8 participants, the dealer has to work for every hand. S/he can’t ever relax, stop paying attention, shoot the breeze, debate previous hands, watch the game, just b.s., take a long dinner break, sit out an orbit to smoke, etc.
The games I play in mainly are not raked, but if a game is raked, they also have to remember to do that math to remove the correct amount per hand.
S/he likewise has the annoying task of nudging players to act, splitting pots as needed, monitoring every hand/actuon for irregularities, and more. The dealer often also has the uncomfortable task of correcting players who talk about a multiway hand or otherwise make small infractions not requiring the host to rule.
So to me 60-200BB seems like an even less appealing “guarantee” for the normal player. Personally I could never do it for the 7-9 hours such games typically run. Dealers also tend to need to arrive early and stay a bit after the game to get paid out and discuss a few things with the host. (At my last game my dealer was there from 6:20 pm to 5:15 am.)
So for me the money “coming out” of the game is just the relatively modest cost of having an efficient, enjoyable experience. It gets more money on the table overall, is a huge convenience, is paid more by winners than losers, and really doesn’t hurt the overall bottom line for the field.
Both this other game and mine are effectively 8max: 8 players plus a dealer. Nine people fit comfortably at these tables.
I think of the dealer in both of these games in effect like a player whose results are uniquely capped.
S/he will pretty much never make less than one min buyin (60BB) and also never more than one max buyin (200BB).
These are much like the results of your typical rock or super-nit: They don’t give away any real $$$, but they also never have a big score.
I suspect that few of us except total Knish-style grinders would take that deal as ordinary players. It would be nice to be able to avoid all losses, but not much fun to never book a huge win.
On top of that, unlike the other 8 participants, the dealer has to work for every hand. S/he can’t ever relax, stop paying attention, shoot the breeze, debate previous hands, watch the game, just b.s., take a long dinner break, sit out an orbit to smoke, etc.
The games I play in mainly are not raked, but if a game is raked, they also have to remember to do that math to remove the correct amount per hand.
S/he likewise has the annoying task of nudging players to act, splitting pots as needed, monitoring every hand/actuon for irregularities, and more. The dealer often also has the uncomfortable task of correcting players who talk about a multiway hand or otherwise make small infractions not requiring the host to rule.
So to me 60-200BB seems like an even less appealing “guarantee” for the normal player. Personally I could never do it for the 7-9 hours such games typically run. Dealers also tend to need to arrive early and stay a bit after the game to get paid out and discuss a few things with the host. (At my last game my dealer was there from 6:20 pm to 5:15 am.)
So for me the money “coming out” of the game is just the relatively modest cost of having an efficient, enjoyable experience. It gets more money on the table overall, is a huge convenience, is paid more by winners than losers, and really doesn’t hurt the overall bottom line for the field.
ItsAlwaysLupus
Sitting Out
I see your point. I'm not speaking to the financial part of it, but I think we can all agree that a good dealer does more than just "dealing cards."
GoJo_Dingo
Pair
That is why he is spectacularly wealthy!
JK but I see your point, that just ain't right! $650 pot and only $1 tip?
A friend of mine often deals for my home games (when he can), for the company, the booze and the tips by winners upon cash out only.
If I hired a professional dealer, I would certainly pay him by the hour and have every player contribute beforehand. Tips upon cash out on top of that would be perfectly OK, but tips during play can only cause issues.
By the way, I also buy the losers' food and only ask winners for their share.
If I hired a professional dealer, I would certainly pay him by the hour and have every player contribute beforehand. Tips upon cash out on top of that would be perfectly OK, but tips during play can only cause issues.
By the way, I also buy the losers' food and only ask winners for their share.
Host a self dealt game as a wake up to tip or self dealt will continue.
GoJo_Dingo
Pair
There is a great idea!
OP
OP
It doesn’t cause issues 99% of the time because most players recognize that they are getting a great service that makes the game run so much more smoothly. And we get way more hands in.
I also far prefer the tipping-as-we go thing since it means the dealer is getting rewarded more like a steady hourly amount, rather than a flat fee. A game might last only 7 hours one night and 10 hours another. If the fee were fixed they would sometimes be working 40% longer for the same amount.
Also tipping as you go means the winners are bearing more of the burden than losers which is good for the health of the game longterm.
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OP
OP
My dealer takes 2-3 short (5-10 minute) breaks over the course of the game, which sometimes lasts as long as 9-10 hours.
We self-deal during these short breaks, and the errors and inefficiency on display even for just a few hands serves as a good reminder of why the dealer is a good idea.
Munchies11
High Hand
The winners of the game should tip a certain percentage and that’s based on how much they won. The biggest winner should tip the most and the smallest winner the least. All losers are not obligated to tip unless they want to
I go along with tipping a blind or two out of every pot I rake, because it’s convention, and because I assume the dealer isn’t paid very well. But to suggest the dealer is entitled to a certain percentage of all winnings? Eff that.
I’ve always been annoyed with the anti-tipping crowd. But the longer this thread goes on, the more I’m rethinking that.
Shit, what if everybody breaks even. No tips??
Two solutions to this:
1) Set it so the bomb pot timed rake/tip is a prepayment that starts the session and at the beginning of each half hour or hour.
2) Require paying into the bomb pot for anyone cashing out early, free money for the remaining players
For me a rake is when you pay for location and equipment.
I would ask 10-15bucks each player for the dealer.
I would ask 10-15bucks each player for the dealer.
Same.
I realize it's probably not his/her every day job, but working 10 hours straight with only a couple of 5-10 minute breaks, frankly sounds unhealthy. Obv I don’t know your dealer and one can argue that it's his/her choice to do so, but really you are creating an environment where that becomes a ”choice” by making it a for tips only job.
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Tipping the dealer isn't (or maybe shouldn't be) for getting dealt a winning hand, but for supplying a valued service. That's the problem with dealers working for tips only; it's inherently implied that losing players owe nothing for that service, even though they also benefit from it.
Just pay your dealer, either funded by a dealer fee paid up-front by the players, or a dealer rake from each pot.
Tipping can then be totally optional (and not expected), and can either be per-hand, or lump-sum prior or after the game.
Just pay your dealer, either funded by a dealer fee paid up-front by the players, or a dealer rake from each pot.
Tipping can then be totally optional (and not expected), and can either be per-hand, or lump-sum prior or after the game.
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