Is this a call or fold? (19 Viewers)

[JJDiamonds]

I raise preflop and my friend (he plays super lose and loves to bully me out of pots) calls. Flop is TQ4. I check and he shoves. I have around $200. No 9 or ace on the runout and I lost my stack. I don't know poker strategy so I'm not sure if this was the right call or not. It was a fun night with crazy action so I guess that's the only thing that matters... right? haha

 

[RagingAZN]

When posting a hand history, stack size is very important. Without that info, we can’t give you any feedback.

Let us know what the starting stack size was, the raise amount, pot amount etc and then we can provide some feedback.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Since I only know the outcome, my advice is you should have folded

 

[JJDiamonds]

When posting a hand history, stack size is very important. Without that info, we can’t give you any feedback.

Let us know what the starting stack size was, the raise amount, pot amount etc and then we can provide some feedback.

Yeah I'm probably not going to get the answer I'm looking for since I don't remember the exact amounts. Next time I'm going to try and track this better so I can actually learn from my hands haha. I'll give a rough estimate of what I remember

Buy in was $50 and I had close to $200. Blinds are .25/.50 I raised 4 or 5 bucks pre and just had the one caller.

 

[LeLe]

Buy in was $50 and I had close to $200. Blinds are .25/.50 I raised 4 or 5 bucks pre and just had the one caller.

So the pot after flop is about $10 and about $200 for you to call the all in? And you called?

 

[JJDiamonds]

So the pot after flop is about $10 and about $200 for you to call the all in?

Well... when you say it like that it that it sounds like a easy fold... Apparently I have a lot to learn lol

 

[LeLe]

Well... when you say it like that it that it sounds like a easy fold... Apparently I have a lot to learn lol

You have a better case to call with a hand like Top pair no kicker as you are still ahead of some of the semi bluffing hands, and with you holding KJ you are blocking a lot of the bluffing semi draw hand thus making it an easier fold compared to Top pair type of hand.

Also being 400bb deep didn’t help too, if we are 100bb deep we still can justify some 20/80 30/70 gambling flip

 

[JJDiamonds]

You have a better case to call with a hand like Top pair no kicker as you are still ahead of some of the semi bluffing hands, and with you holding KJ you are blocking a lot of the bluffing semi draw hand thus making it an easier fold compared to Top pair type of hand.

Yeah that's a good point. I think I got caught up in how lose he plays. He had to rebuy three times in the first five hands. One of them was against me so I was pretty much just giving him back his money haha

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Hey no problem, we all lose sometimes but yeah, horrible call. Remember this pain!

An important part of this is that even some of his bluffs are beating you, so you're calling a massive overbet hoping to hit your straight but expecting to lose 70% of the time. If he bet the size of the pot I'd call with such a deep stack because when we do hit our straight we can likely win much more, but the shove invalidates all that future decision making.

Keep playing, these are good experiences to have you'll keep getting better.

 

[RagingAZN]

Do some research on pot odds and outs. You’ll see why calling $200 to win $210 was not a good spot for you.

Can only go up from here Padawan!

 

[WedgeRock]

Typically, I don't call a 20x shove without nuts or pretty close to it. You have to be right more often than not for it to be +EV.

Here, you had King high, and 8 outs to the straight. So you had about 32% equity in the hand. Calling 2x pot to win 32% of the time is no bueno... You didn't know he only had top pair, but you couldn't beat anything other than a bluff. You lose to a naked T or 4!

Fold and find a better spot against this maniac.

I was pretty much just giving him back his money haha

...and your initial $50 buyin, plus the $50 you had won before you doubled through him to $200.

Edited to correct math

 

[allforcharity]

You got caught JKo. Too many people chasing open-ended straight draws. But donking off money is part of the fun in a social game. Better luck next time.

 

[ontheriver51]

200 to win 210 is essentially 1:1 which means you need 50% equity to make a good call. Call it 49% for the extra few bucks. An open ender (even if we pretend your 1 over was live) is 11 outs or ~25%. Math says fold, degen says fuck it

 

[JJDiamonds]

200 to win 210 is essentially 1:1 which means you need 50% equity to make a good call. Call it 49% for the extra few bucks. An open ender (even if we pretend your 1 over was live) is 11 outs or ~25%. Math says fold, degen says fuck it

I was many shots in so that may have influenced my decision. Also, I had been hiting a lot of straights/flushes on the river haha.

 

[nano617]

I was many shots in so that may have influenced my decision. Also, I had been hiting a lot of straights/flushes on the river haha.

Sounds like lots of fun so doesn't really matter at the end of the day, but as other people have stated, very losing call!

 

[JackJack]

I was many shots in so that may have influenced my decision. Also, I had been hiting a lot of straights/flushes on the river haha.

Lots of solid info in this thread so far so I will approach it with a little different view point.

You had put 8 big blinds into the pot with your preflop action. He bet 400 big blinds. Even a crazy person isn’t going all-in with two streets left on a bluff. He had to have something.

 

[Munchies11]

I think you called looking to gamble because you def weren’t in the lead with a straight draw only. I wouldn’t say it was a bad call because your friend only had a pair and the board was not suited. But you were at 40% of winning pot. So depends how you look at it. For a friendly game and looking for action it’s a good call , if this was tourney where you’re playing to win I don’t think it would be the right call

 

[JJDiamonds]

I think you called looking to gamble because you def weren’t in the lead with a straight draw only. I wouldn’t say it was a bad call because your friend only had a pair and the board was not suited. But you were at 40% of winning pot. So depends how you look at it. For a friendly game and looking for action it’s a good call , if this was tourney where you’re playing to win I don’t think it would be the right call

I definitely wouldn't do this in a tourney but this guy will plays every hand and loves to push me out of puts haha. Probably not the best call but it was fun since the whole table wanted me to call him

 

[JJDiamonds]

Lots of solid info in this thread so far so I will approach it with a little different view point.

You had put 8 big blinds into the pot with your preflop action. He bet 400 big blinds. Even a crazy person isn’t going all-in with two streets left on a bluff. He had to have something.

Yes, I definitely learned a lot from the different replies.

This guy is in fact crazy and will go all in with absolutely nothing haha. He only folded two hands preflop the entire night. He's definitely someone you can win big against you just have to wait for the right spot. Unfortunately I don't think this was the right spot for me lol

 

[springbox]

Remembering how to calculate pot odds is always good. Easiest way for me to remember is (amount to call)/(total pot after you call). Since there's $10 in the middle and he bet $200 we have ($200)/($410) = 48.7% odds needed to call.

 

[augster123]

In the spirit of improving your game, would you have played it differently if you had continuation bet, say $5, on the flop and he shoved? Flopping a Broadway draw with an overcard is probably strong enough to c-bet some percent of the time, so you might consider it. This board is wet enough that it's scary if he has 55 to 99. If he calls or shoves, you can probably figure you are behind, and as the others have stated calling for all of your chips on a draw is seldom the right play.

 

[JJDiamonds]

In the spirit of improving your game, would you have played it differently if you had continuation bet, say $5, on the flop and he shoved? Flopping a Broadway draw with an overcard is probably strong enough to c-bet some percent of the time, so you might consider it. This board is wet enough that it's scary if he has 55 to 99. If he calls or shoves, you can probably figure you are behind, and as the others have stated calling for all of your chips on a draw is seldom the right play.

I think it would have played out the same either way. Last week I saw him call a $12 three bet then a $22 c bet with 64 off. He ended up hitting a pair of fours beating ace high. Definitely a lot more gambling then high level poker play happening at my games lol

 

[SwissChip]

Definitely a lot more gambling then high level poker play happening at my games lol

So it was a good call.

 

[AutoDonk5000]

Horrible call!

But not the last horrible call you will make.
Over time you will make fewer if you study and note the details people requested above.
Luckily your opponents (myself included) will make bad calls too.
I've made so many bad calls, bad folds, bad bluffs.
Just make fewer than your opponents and your making money!

 

[shorticus]

Suggestion, if I may.

Perhaps post the action play by play (see other threads). That way you can gather advice from each part of the game tree. You might even see mistakes that are made that you were not even aware you were making, and in time you can also see where you play generally strong (or at least knowing your thoughts are generally aligned with the people you seek advice from).

Generally based on the information here it looks like you think you're drawing to an A or 9. In which case you think that your K would be no good? Also, probably not good practice to call off your entire stack on a draw where 25% of your outs are not clean anyway.

Just my 2 cents. I'm below average at poker so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[legend672]

What’s up with that felt ? The flop, the turn, the River ? Minga

 

[shorticus]

What’s up with that felt ? The flop, the turn, the River ? Minga

I think that's standard felt for those barrington tables.

 

[JJDiamonds]

Suggestion, if I may.

Perhaps post the action play by play (see other threads). That way you can gather advice from each part of the game tree. You might even see mistakes that are made that you were not even aware you were making, and in time you can also see where you play generally strong (or at least knowing your thoughts are generally aligned with the people you seek advice from).

Generally based on the information here it looks like you think you're drawing to an A or 9. In which case you think that your K would be no good? Also, probably not good practice to call off your entire stack on a draw where 25% of your outs are not clean anyway.

Just my 2 cents. I'm below average at poker so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I need to do a better job of remembering the hands I play. That's probably one of the reasons I'm not good haha. I'll going to work on it at my next poker night.

 

[JJDiamonds]

I think that's standard felt for those barrington tables.

Yup it's the standard felt. This was before I got a cover. Here is what the table looks like now

 

[AutoDonk5000]

I need to do a better job of remembering the hands I play. That's probably one of the reasons I'm not good haha. I'll going to work on it at my next poker night.

Simply by commiting to make the effort to remember hand action, you are already better than you were!

Leveled up!