Is this a call or fold? (2 Viewers)

[JJDiamonds]

I raise preflop and my friend (he plays super lose and loves to bully me out of pots) calls. Flop is TQ4. I check and he shoves. I have around $200. No 9 or ace on the runout and I lost my stack. I don't know poker strategy so I'm not sure if this was the right call or not. It was a fun night with crazy action so I guess that's the only thing that matters... right? haha

 

[RagingAZN]

When posting a hand history, stack size is very important. Without that info, we can’t give you any feedback.

Let us know what the starting stack size was, the raise amount, pot amount etc and then we can provide some feedback.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Since I only know the outcome, my advice is you should have folded

 

[JJDiamonds]

When posting a hand history, stack size is very important. Without that info, we can’t give you any feedback.

Let us know what the starting stack size was, the raise amount, pot amount etc and then we can provide some feedback.

Yeah I'm probably not going to get the answer I'm looking for since I don't remember the exact amounts. Next time I'm going to try and track this better so I can actually learn from my hands haha. I'll give a rough estimate of what I remember

Buy in was $50 and I had close to $200. Blinds are .25/.50 I raised 4 or 5 bucks pre and just had the one caller.

 

[LeLe]

Buy in was $50 and I had close to $200. Blinds are .25/.50 I raised 4 or 5 bucks pre and just had the one caller.

So the pot after flop is about $10 and about $200 for you to call the all in? And you called?

 

[JJDiamonds]

So the pot after flop is about $10 and about $200 for you to call the all in?

Well... when you say it like that it that it sounds like a easy fold... Apparently I have a lot to learn lol

 

[LeLe]

Well... when you say it like that it that it sounds like a easy fold... Apparently I have a lot to learn lol

You have a better case to call with a hand like Top pair no kicker as you are still ahead of some of the semi bluffing hands, and with you holding KJ you are blocking a lot of the bluffing semi draw hand thus making it an easier fold compared to Top pair type of hand.

Also being 400bb deep didn’t help too, if we are 100bb deep we still can justify some 20/80 30/70 gambling flip

 

[JJDiamonds]

You have a better case to call with a hand like Top pair no kicker as you are still ahead of some of the semi bluffing hands, and with you holding KJ you are blocking a lot of the bluffing semi draw hand thus making it an easier fold compared to Top pair type of hand.

Yeah that's a good point. I think I got caught up in how lose he plays. He had to rebuy three times in the first five hands. One of them was against me so I was pretty much just giving him back his money haha

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Hey no problem, we all lose sometimes but yeah, horrible call. Remember this pain!

An important part of this is that even some of his bluffs are beating you, so you're calling a massive overbet hoping to hit your straight but expecting to lose 70% of the time. If he bet the size of the pot I'd call with such a deep stack because when we do hit our straight we can likely win much more, but the shove invalidates all that future decision making.

Keep playing, these are good experiences to have you'll keep getting better.

 

[RagingAZN]

Do some research on pot odds and outs. You’ll see why calling $200 to win $210 was not a good spot for you.

Can only go up from here Padawan!

 

[WedgeRock]

Typically, I don't call a 20x shove without nuts or pretty close to it. You have to be right more often than not for it to be +EV.

Here, you had King high, and 8 outs to the straight. So you had about 32% equity in the hand. Calling 2x pot to win 32% of the time is no bueno... You didn't know he only had top pair, but you couldn't beat anything other than a bluff. You lose to a naked T or 4!

Fold and find a better spot against this maniac.

I was pretty much just giving him back his money haha

...and your initial $50 buyin, plus the $50 you had won before you doubled through him to $200.

Edited to correct math

 

[allforcharity]

You got caught JKo. Too many people chasing open-ended straight draws. But donking off money is part of the fun in a social game. Better luck next time.

 

[ontheriver51]

200 to win 210 is essentially 1:1 which means you need 50% equity to make a good call. Call it 49% for the extra few bucks. An open ender (even if we pretend your 1 over was live) is 11 outs or ~25%. Math says fold, degen says fuck it

 

[JJDiamonds]

200 to win 210 is essentially 1:1 which means you need 50% equity to make a good call. Call it 49% for the extra few bucks. An open ender (even if we pretend your 1 over was live) is 11 outs or ~25%. Math says fold, degen says fuck it

I was many shots in so that may have influenced my decision. Also, I had been hiting a lot of straights/flushes on the river haha.

 

[nano617]

I was many shots in so that may have influenced my decision. Also, I had been hiting a lot of straights/flushes on the river haha.

Sounds like lots of fun so doesn't really matter at the end of the day, but as other people have stated, very losing call!

 

[JackJack]

I was many shots in so that may have influenced my decision. Also, I had been hiting a lot of straights/flushes on the river haha.

Lots of solid info in this thread so far so I will approach it with a little different view point.

You had put 8 big blinds into the pot with your preflop action. He bet 400 big blinds. Even a crazy person isn’t going all-in with two streets left on a bluff. He had to have something.