OP
OP
MrCatPants
Full House
wtf?
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Long-time regular loses his marbles (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter MrCatPants
- Start date
OP
OP
MrCatPants
Full House
Theres an ongoing personal matter but its not new and not what i would call a "tier 1" level of stress type of matter.
Too much to read bc my sushi bowl just arrived…
“Hey…don’t be rude. I don’t like that here. This isn’t a casino but the rules are here to protect the players and the integrity of the game. Run your own game and do whatever the hell you want.”
People that can’t control their emotions remind me of my four year old…so I ignore them just like I ignore my four year old (when she’s acting shitty).
“Hey…don’t be rude. I don’t like that here. This isn’t a casino but the rules are here to protect the players and the integrity of the game. Run your own game and do whatever the hell you want.”
People that can’t control their emotions remind me of my four year old…so I ignore them just like I ignore my four year old (when she’s acting shitty).
… a mature decision spoiled by the player then returning to rant and rave at the host.
It’s a hard call, and for me it would come down to whether this player is an actual friend, or just someone who fills a seat regularly.
What he did seems fundamentally disrespectful of the host and the game, and thus harder write off as a one-time aberration. So unless his friendship is valued I might just cut bait even if I needed players.
In the latter case, if he volunteers an apology to you and the other players, then there is something to discuss and consider forgiving.
But if you have to cajole an apology out of him, and it is motivated more by a desire to keep playing than sincere regret, it is likely to happen again eventually.
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doctorchips
Pair
You owe him nothing. If you're hosting and he's a guest, you can inform him that he won't be invited back.
Jimulacrum
Full House
Agree with folks who are saying have a private talk with him to see what's going on and make it clear that his behavior was unacceptable.
He's a regular and this strange behavior seemingly came out of nowhere. Maybe he's on new meds? Under extreme stress about something? Actually losing his mind? Could be anything.
If his response to the private talk is to double down, you probably have to cut him from the invite list for the good of the game.
He's a regular and this strange behavior seemingly came out of nowhere. Maybe he's on new meds? Under extreme stress about something? Actually losing his mind? Could be anything.
If his response to the private talk is to double down, you probably have to cut him from the invite list for the good of the game.
Host to player - do you like playing poker here?
Can you play by the rules without causing a disruption like you did last time?
If either of the above answers is no - time to cut the cord.
Can you play by the rules without causing a disruption like you did last time?
If either of the above answers is no - time to cut the cord.
If this is all it is, the first time, and he’s a regular - let it go.
Chalk it up to a bad day, it happens. Worry about it if it happens a 2nd time. Until then, seems unnecessary to dig into it deeper IMO.
If you don’t like the dude anyway, and he’s taking a spot - then just cut him loose and move on.
Chalk it up to a bad day, it happens. Worry about it if it happens a 2nd time. Until then, seems unnecessary to dig into it deeper IMO.
If you don’t like the dude anyway, and he’s taking a spot - then just cut him loose and move on.
Agreed.
Primarily disrespectful to the host.
As a participant in the game, I thought he was definitely out of line, but not that big of a deal. This player has always been a bit of an odd duck, and has an strange sense of being both a competent and experienced player, and yet one on whom some really basic rules of poker seem to be lost. A strange combination.
I'm with one of the other posts who suggested that host needs to reach out to the player, and first ask if everything is okay? Give him an opportunity to explain his behaviour. Hopefully that will result in an apology.
In these situations I feel like if the player doesn’t wake up at the crack of dawn and realize, “Oh hell, I effed up last night, I gotta call my friend ASAP to apologize and make it up to him,” then he’s neither much of a friend nor someone I want around my game.
It would be big of the host to take the initiative and express concern, but it really shouldn’t be on him to extract an explanation/apology. Unless this person has some dire condition and is at risk of harming himself, as an adult he should be the one stepping up first, not the host.
At a minimum, you should at least stop playing this.
Mixed games brings together a more sophisticated group of poker players.
HoldEm players are the type that lick tables, chew old bubble gum they found stuck under their chairs, and generally can't be left alone.
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FYP
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OP
OP
MrCatPants
Full House
I do mixed games too! This is just our round of each night.
I feel targeted and hurt.
OP
OP
MrCatPants
Full House
That was kind of where i was leaning, but wanted to gather some other opinions too.
This is one of the most elitist and stereotypical things you could ever say, and it shows your bias, you beautiful son of a gun!
I agree in principle with this point. However, it is my experience that the concentric circles of people who “lose their marbles” and people who “step up first” do not have a lot of overlap. I say that without judgement, just noting that hosts are often left in the position of letting this go, or bringing them to a head. Letting things fester is a not ideal though, so not letting it go and not addressing is not effective.
In the professional world, it’s why I’m quick to give PIPs. The pip is not a punishment. It’s seeking to get in front of an issue before it gets out of hand. It gives the person a chance to act differently, or leave if it is a change they don’t want to make. And, if they don’t (or can’t) change and try to stay, I can remove them with a clear conscience since it’s better for the team.
I wouldn’t let it fester… I’d remove them from my invite list if they didn’t have the sense to volunteer an apology (and promise to do better).
Of course there are different degrees of offense, so there has to be some case-by-case judgment exercised.
The sustained behavior that the OP described suggested to me a deep-seated lack of respect for the host and/or his game. And as such it may require either the offender to have his own change of heart, or else to be disinvited.
I’m curious for the folks who have brought up “collusion” to say more.
Not being able to run it multiple times without a player all-in is obvious to me but asking to check it down doesn’t seem so terrible to me so I would like to learn what I am missing.
If ahead of the game, two players agree to check it down after they have folded out others with large bets, that’s clearly collusion. IIRC someone on here had a thread about a couple doing exactly that, that’s clearly fucked up.
But this seems different. I have players who will say “will you show if I fold?” Or “is there any chance I get you off this?” Or “I think we’re chopping here, I’m gonna just check.” As speech play or just cause they’ve ended up in for more than they wanted and annoyed about it. I get those are slightly different but I was imagining that it wouldn’t attract much attention from me if someone asked to check it down. I guess I also can’t imagine my players ever remotely considering colluding.
Not being able to run it multiple times without a player all-in is obvious to me but asking to check it down doesn’t seem so terrible to me so I would like to learn what I am missing.
If ahead of the game, two players agree to check it down after they have folded out others with large bets, that’s clearly collusion. IIRC someone on here had a thread about a couple doing exactly that, that’s clearly fucked up.
But this seems different. I have players who will say “will you show if I fold?” Or “is there any chance I get you off this?” Or “I think we’re chopping here, I’m gonna just check.” As speech play or just cause they’ve ended up in for more than they wanted and annoyed about it. I get those are slightly different but I was imagining that it wouldn’t attract much attention from me if someone asked to check it down. I guess I also can’t imagine my players ever remotely considering colluding.
your in a game with me and one hand the pot is large, I scream rule number 1 is in affect, rule #1 is you check I bet you bet I raise you raise I reraise; the guy I’ve been chummy with all night raises behind you after you call now I raise and you fold, then we agree to check it down. Later I give my partner his 1/2.
Right of course that’s collusion. But I don’t think @MrCatPants gave us any information to conclude that was the case so I assumed I missed something because of how quickly collusion was brought up and how many people mentioned it
Definitely no collusion here. The player was in for 3 buy-ins but had built himself back to nearly 2. I think he didn’t want to commit his stack on this hand as the other player had him covered (and some) and they were the only two left in the hand. Then he said “once or twice”. What he meant was “can we check it down and do you want to run it once or twice”.
I would say that his take is that this is a friendly game and we should be allowed to do whatever we want if both players agree. This was very poorly communicated by him as he got defensive quickly when told he had to be all in to ask things like “once or twice”, and perhaps he heard some things and not others in the ongoing conversation. For example the other player in the hand would not have agreed to check it down and was happy to run it as many times as asked if the first player was all in.
I put this down to poor communication on the player’s part and selective hearing - perhaps exaggerated by the fact that maybe he was just having a bad day.
I would say that his take is that this is a friendly game and we should be allowed to do whatever we want if both players agree. This was very poorly communicated by him as he got defensive quickly when told he had to be all in to ask things like “once or twice”, and perhaps he heard some things and not others in the ongoing conversation. For example the other player in the hand would not have agreed to check it down and was happy to run it as many times as asked if the first player was all in.
I put this down to poor communication on the player’s part and selective hearing - perhaps exaggerated by the fact that maybe he was just having a bad day.
Most of the time there isn't, and I trust your judgement, but the problem is, it opens the door for it.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Am I the only one in here that thinks it's the host that is out of line and not the player?
This isn't a tournament. It's a cash game. Asking another player to run it twice or check it down, or whatever oddball request you have at any point in a hand when heads up, is and should be fair game. The other player can agree or not agree to it. If both players want to check it down after the flop, they should be allowed to. It's their pot, not yours. In this case the other player didn't want to, and that's fine too. But there's nothing wrong with asking, and the host making him feel like he's doing something wrong by asking is bullshit.
Also, you are putting way too much importance on string betting. The only reason string betting isn't allowed is because you can't have someone angle shooting or causing action by pretending to bet a certain amount and then changing it afterward. Grabbing a stack of chips and cutting out the amount you wish to bet is not string betting. Just let the guy cut his chips out. And if you're using a betting line at all, and enforcing anything going across that line as being a bet, then you're going against the spirit of the game. Betting lines are ridiculous in home game environments IMO. The only reason they're even a thing is so that tournament directors can make easy decisions. But in practice, betting lines are more often used to nullify what should be valid well-intentioned bets than they are used to stop angle shooting. They're also used to trap people into having to leave chips in the pot that they did not intend to wager. It goes entirely against the spirit of the game. A players actions should come down to intentions, not technicalities. If you're running a game and constantly find yourself pointing out technicalities, you're doing it wrong. Let the players play. Get rid of the betting lines and get back to playing real poker.
This isn't a tournament. It's a cash game. Asking another player to run it twice or check it down, or whatever oddball request you have at any point in a hand when heads up, is and should be fair game. The other player can agree or not agree to it. If both players want to check it down after the flop, they should be allowed to. It's their pot, not yours. In this case the other player didn't want to, and that's fine too. But there's nothing wrong with asking, and the host making him feel like he's doing something wrong by asking is bullshit.
Also, you are putting way too much importance on string betting. The only reason string betting isn't allowed is because you can't have someone angle shooting or causing action by pretending to bet a certain amount and then changing it afterward. Grabbing a stack of chips and cutting out the amount you wish to bet is not string betting. Just let the guy cut his chips out. And if you're using a betting line at all, and enforcing anything going across that line as being a bet, then you're going against the spirit of the game. Betting lines are ridiculous in home game environments IMO. The only reason they're even a thing is so that tournament directors can make easy decisions. But in practice, betting lines are more often used to nullify what should be valid well-intentioned bets than they are used to stop angle shooting. They're also used to trap people into having to leave chips in the pot that they did not intend to wager. It goes entirely against the spirit of the game. A players actions should come down to intentions, not technicalities. If you're running a game and constantly find yourself pointing out technicalities, you're doing it wrong. Let the players play. Get rid of the betting lines and get back to playing real poker.
Last night was a low key bloody game. I emptied my roll, was big time “wounded bear” and was all in, expecting to have to borrow from a friend and sucked out on the villain to double up and sun ran from there.
Emotions were high!
Emotions were high!
Oh! I’ve always wanted to play real poker.
Now I can’t wait for my next game. It will feel so real to slowly cut out a bet from a larger stack two feet in front of me. To ignore basic house rules. To disrespect the host.
And to finally understand what playing real poker is like.
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ekricket
Royal Flush
lol, it’s like a physicist talking to an engineer
Physicist: “well, theoretically you can’t…. “
Engineer : “well, I already built it….”
Physicist: “well, theoretically you can’t…. “
Engineer : “well, I already built it….”
I am so conflicted, I majored in physics and I am an engineer.
People can host however they want. But accepted behavior in the home and accepted behavior in the casino may be two separate things, and woe to the person who visits a casino with the excuse "well, that's how we do it in our home game...."
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